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Benefit: A rogue with this talent gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a weapon. Furthermore, if she makes a sneak attack during the surprise round using a concealed weapon that her opponent didn’t know about, she does not have to roll sneak attack damage, and the sneak attack deals maximum damage. A rogue can only use the underhanded talent a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0).
This is a rogue talent that I could take on any even numbered level with a rogue.
Question: If I'm invisible, and I sneak up on a creature, does that count as a concealed weapon that the opponent didn't know about, or do I still have to make a slight of hand check to conceal the weapon? Question 2: When I use this, does it count for just the first sneak attack, or all attacks if I get mutliple attacks in the round? Situation: I'm invis and I sneak up on a creature. I wait a round to attack, thus getting all my attacks. BAM, do I get one max'd attack, or will all my attacks be max'd?
1: Hmm, slight of hand check is required but with no opposing perception check (unless enemy can see invisible targets, which it might and you wouldn't necessarily know), so automatic pass. This prevents you from doing it with weapons that cannot be concealed (as in non-light weapons, like great axes).
2: First only. Your enemy knows about the weapon at that point. Also because the ability says "a sneak attack" not "every sneak attack". Don't forget that you cannot take full-round actions during surprise round.
Thats a heavily discussed topic.
Normally most people say its only for the first attack, otherwise its a little bit too powerfull. Imagine a ninja taking this and getting invisible blade, ending in always max SA.
Also you don´t need a sleight of hand check if you are invisible (i would say, since it makes no sense).
My thoughts would be that you always have to take the check because you have to use a 'concealed weapon' to gain the talent's benefit. An invisible fighter with a great axe is not carrying a concealed weapon, he simply has an invisible one. This also ensures the sneak attack weapon is one that can be concealed, which is part and parcel of the talent's limitation (e.g. only light weapons or those with special concealment rules)
Furthermore, as I said, you don't know if the opponent can even see you via any number of means that would not be obvious to a player.
So DC 0 conceal weapon check when against a creature that cannot see you (not just smell or sense your foot falls). DC "what do you mean I failed my check? It can see me! Crap! Ow!" conceal weapon against foes that can see you.
First of all its in a SURPRISE ROUND. That means only one attack. You cant take a full attack in a surprise round. So assuming you use invisibility to get a surprise round I would say it works.
Technically there are was you can. Teamwork feats specifically. A pair ninjas using the lookout feat would actually be kinda neat. Sneak up together, max sneak attack things dead.
You either have the Quickdraw feat, or you already have the weapon in hand before you achieve surprise.
You either have the Quickdraw feat, or you already have the weapon in hand before you achieve surprise.
Normally, Drawing a hidden weapon is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.
With Quick Draw you can draw a hidden weapon as a move action.
Kolokotroni is right, i forgot that.
There is another rogue feat deft hands or something like that, where you can hide weapons in your hand in plain sight.
That makes it very easy then, but there was antoher possibility i don´t remember right now.
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You either have the Quickdraw feat, or you already have the weapon in hand before you achieve surprise.Normally, Drawing a hidden weapon is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.
With Quick Draw you can draw a hidden weapon as a move action.
Exactly. Which means you need the weapon in-hand prior to the surprise round in order to use this talent.
And that in turn means that one of the following is true (unless I missed something):
A) The talent actually cannot be used unless you employ other specialized mechanics to engineer a special situation, or
B) It's normal to be able to draw a concealed weapon and still have it count as a concealed weapon the next round.
Thoughts, anyone?
The intent was to use it once on the surprise round, but since there are ways to get a full round attack in the surprise round it is a GM call until the devs make a decision. Corner cases, and strange feat combinations often require the GM since the devs can't cover every possible feat combination.
Still not resolved... :-(
You either have the Quickdraw feat, or you already have the weapon in hand before you achieve surprise.Normally, Drawing a hidden weapon is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.
With Quick Draw you can draw a hidden weapon as a move action.
Exactly. Which means you need the weapon in-hand prior to the surprise round in order to use this talent.
And that in turn means that one of the following is true (unless I missed something):
A) The talent actually cannot be used unless you employ other specialized mechanics to engineer a special situation, or
B) It's normal to be able to draw a concealed weapon and still have it count as a concealed weapon the next round.
Thoughts, anyone?
There are five ways I can think of to pull a concealed weapon and attack in a Surprise Round.
1. Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath. (Drawing is a Swift Action)
2. Deft Hands Rogue Talent. (Can hold a weapon in plain sight and still count as "concealed")
3. Bandit Archetype and Quick Draw. (Get a move AND standard action in surprise rounds)
4. Sandals of Quick Reaction and Quick Draw. (Same as #3)
5. Betrayer Feat. (If you change someone's attitude w/ Diplomacy you can draw and attack as an immediate action)
::EDIT:: Six ways~
6. Improved Unarmed Strike. (Your hand IS the weapon. It should be relatively easy to "conceal" a weapon if there is no weapon)