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Recently we had a new kid (probably not yet a teen, no pen and paper rpg experience) join up who wanted to make a halforc fighter and wanted as much Str and Chas as he could. Final build at level 1 was 18 10 10 10 10 15 with a +11 to Intimidate after taking Skill Focus: Intimidate (Other feat was Toughness).
Now Im not saying we need to teach young players how to optimizae their characters, or convincing him that his idea is stupid, but as a front line fighter with a 2 handed weapon, his AC and HP are going to be lower than most other characters of his type of his level. He may have fun with this character, but how long will he get to enjoy it before he dies due to his Con and Dex being so low? How much will he enjoy it then?
So, if you were helping him create a character, and that was what he wanted, would you let him walk blindly into what will most likely result in his character dying at some point, or try to convince him that putting all his eggs into one (or a few, I guess) basket is probably not the best idea, and maybe he should think about spreading out his options a bit.
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Let him do what he wants, but it doesn’t need to be blindly. Let him know the challenges he will face, certainly, and then let him know that he will probably want to purchase full plate at his nearest convenience and possibly use his favored class bonus on HP’s.
People want to play what they want. He will either have a load of fun with this, or realize his error. I think you have a better chance of chasing him away from PFS if you try to make him create the character the way you’d create it, rather than letting him make his own mistakes.
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Suggest a barbarian and the feat intimidating prowess(add str to intimidate checks).
Suggest a barbarian and the feat intimidating prowess(add str to intimidate checks).
Adding to this, ask him to take Gladiator as an archetype. This will allow him to maximize his charisma. For the barbarian levels, he should consider Invulnerable Rager.
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He's new to the game. Let him play as it is. After time, he will observe others playing the game and come up with questions of how it was done on his own. When he does, that is the time to instruct him. Right now, believe it or not he has the perfect build for a young player learning to play the game. You don't need to worry about the advanced mechanics of combat or spell, but he can go through and learn the basics now. Plus, having a high Charisma gives him options to open up with later. Now he can learn the roleplaying aspect and feel he has a descent chance at success. Later he can play around with adding a few other classes that can benifit his higher charisma. In the interim, with toughness and favored class bonus to hit points he really isn't doing to badly.
Maybe at level 2 and 3 introduce him to the Paladin Class. Now his saves are alright, and he can begin to explore some of the other neat things about this system. Finally, @ 4th level, if your still concerned about not having any dex to ac introduce him to the Oracle class and choose Nature. Now his Cha is used for Dex for both AC and CMD, and he can dip his hand into a little bit of spellcasting.
You've actually have an excellent basis to for teaching a new young player the game. I don't think he'll be dissapointed with it.
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Those are good suggestions, and I will pass them along to him, however as this is for PFS, he would have to have a copy of the APG or a watermarked copy of the pages with the Nature Oracle for him to be able to use that. Again, I'll pass it along, but Id be surprised if it would happen.
As far as the stat buy, I wasnt there when he made it, but I agree it looks funny. I'll have to ask him about it if he shows up for our PFS game tomorrow.
Also, I wasnt meaning what would you do for this one kid, but was using him as an example for an overall discussion. How much of your personal bias do you impoart on new players who you help make characters? I'm sure this kid could enjoy himself fully with this character, perhaps moreso with the Barb/ Paladin/ Oracle suggestions, but if he dies before he can get to it to take another level (cause there are some pretty deadly encounters for low level PCs in PFS, especially for someone who is new to this kind of game), then his enjoyment with the character might be shortlived, which I hope to avoid.
If he's new, I don't recommend archetypes. I he wants a half-orc fighter, then let him know that he'll want a little dex since full plate allows a +1 MDB, and a little Con since he'll be in front more often. Other than that, he'll be fine to learn. His second character will be a lot better. ;)
EDIT: The more I think about what you're asking... When I'm teaching a new player the game, I suggest something that is highly survivable and doesn't have a lot of complex abilities. Fighter is a great choice. Gunslinger is not. I tell them that they'll have a lot to learn about the system itself that they can try a more complex character once they have a grip on things.
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When teaching a new player I tend to ask them to give me a few character ideas they'd like to play. Then I give them a quick rundown of the classes, and explain that the complex stuff (archetypes, gunslingers, casters that prepare spells, etc.) probably isn't the best idea for their first character since it'll be easier to learn the basics while not having to keep track of complex extra things. If they're bent on a wizard I try to see if I can convince them to do a sorcerer for their first character instead, but I don't force it. I got forced into a class in my first game because the GM wanted all the big roles in the party filled, and though my barbarian at the time was fun, I think I would have had more fun if I had been allowed to play the oracle I'd wanted.
And after all that I go through character creation with them step by step.
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I'm probably going to give some advice counter to what you might read but I've been doing this for 30 years in many systems with great results.
1) Let the new person play what they want
2) Mention weaknesses and strengths
3) demonstrate, in game, those strengths and weaknesses. Let the player have a blast with his/her strengths. Then demonstrate those weaknesses but "coddle" a little and don't wipe him out. Let him learn from this and when he asks why he nearly died, let him know. Let him figure out what to do next.
To use your example, let him wade into some fun combats where his damage output is key to success. Then pepper him with a lot of minor damage and before he dies, have the the enemy move on to another target or move on altogether. If he doesn't realize why he was hit so easily, tell him that his AC was too low. If he doesn't realize that he was almost killed by only a few enemies, tell him that he needs more hit points.
He will probably ask you, if he doesn't already know, how to increase his AC. He may ask you how to increase his hit points. As he learns, you can slowly take the training wheels off.
First I would remind him that there is time to buff any stat as the game progresses and suggest that intimidate is a very unique situation and he is likely to have a lot more opportunity to avoid getting hit than he is manipulate people with intimidate. Second game mechanics are only part of any situation he enters. If he wants to be intimidating remind him that acting mean might convince someone to fear him. Crushing a helmet with one hand and glaring at him could just as easily end up with a higher bonus than a +4 to the check from the stat and the focus. Not only might this convince him to make a more survivable character it will reinforce the notion that how he applies his actions and skills is just as important.
Evil eye can be maintained as a move action and lasts longer.
Atarlost might have a point I tend to think of intimidate as a social option not a combat option, which it clearly can be, hence I did think it would come up a lot. If that is the characters intent I would make sure he knows about the abilities and let him make it a strength.
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I talked to the guy who helped the kid make the character, who had explained the point buy system, and told the kid what he could do it better than by spending points for the 18 in Str and then using his racial +2 to boost his Cha from 13 to 15. The kid didnt care, so the guy just let it go.
This past weekend, I talked to the kid, and explained it to him about buying the 16s, etc. So, now he has 18 10 10 10 10 16.
I talked to the guy who helped the kid make the character, who had explained the point buy system, and told the kid what he could do it better than by spending points for the 18 in Str and then using his racial +2 to boost his Cha from 13 to 15. The kid didnt care, so the guy just let it go.
This past weekend, I talked to the kid, and explained it to him about buying the 16s, etc. So, now he has 18 10 10 10 10 16.
Well no dump stats but this looks boring. I hope you throw in role playing opportunities as well as requiring Dex, Int, and Wis skills. And I wish him luck with that Con.
I forgot to mention, one thing I think would be great is to have several stat arrays based on the point buy you want to use. Have the new players pick from those instead of them attempting to optimize right out of the gate.