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This question has not been answered directly anywhere. I do not believe that the magus black blade can be used as a scimitar while using dervish dance.
Dervish dance states
Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
This implies that while the scimitar is being used here it is a piercing weapon for feats and class abilities.
Part description of black blade
A black blade is always a one-handed slashing weapon, a rapier, or a sword cane. The magus chooses the blade’s type upon gaining the blade, and once chosen, it can’t be changed. As a bladebound magus increases in level, his black blade gains power.
Black blade is a class ability. It is always a slashing weapon. Therefore it can not be used with dervish dance.
I Would like adjudication as rules also for use in PFS.
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The feat does not take the slashing aspect of the scimitar away, it adds to it. This means these two things are useable together.
Are you sure about that? It clear states it is a piercing weapon for feats and class abilities. It does not say the scimiliar gains piercing. I reas it as black and white... Not what is implied.
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It does not state that you no longer can use it as a slashing weapon. The blackblade ability states it can be a one handed slashing weapon, which a scimitar is, regardless of any feats you may have. This combination is actually common amongst magus players as the synergy is welcome. Look to the boards for examples of this combo. Bottom line, it works, have fun with it.
I have to agree with the troll, the feat doesnt chaNGE THE WEAPON'S properties, so it qualifies as a black blade.
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Good day Masika.
You're running into a problem because you've stopped reading a sentence before the period. " You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability)."
Is the black blade a class ability that requires a one-handed piercing weapon?
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Good day Masika.
You're running into a problem because you've stopped reading a sentence before the period. " You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability)."
Is the black blade a class ability that requires a one-handed piercing weapon?
No.
The black blade class ability states it is always a slashing weapon, rapier or sword cane. My issue is that while you use the scimitar with dervish dance it is treated as a piercing weapon for class abilities. Black blade is a class ability and it is always slashing.
Again it is treated as such for feats and abilities that require it. It doesn't say it really is it only that you treat it as such for those abilities and feats.
The whole idea behind Dervish Dance was to allow one to use a scimitar with duelist and other similiar abilities. If it was to completely change how the weapon acts on such a fundemental level, it would spell it out.
However, the wording is treated or acts might be better, not becomes. In other words, for this specific benefit, the scimitar is a piercing weapon, but for anything else, slashing. Look to the Monk Robes for a similar ability.
Your making it harder then it is.
Part description of black blade
A black blade is always a one-handed slashing weapon, a rapier, or a sword cane. The magus chooses the blade’s type upon gaining the blade, and once chosen, it can’t be changed. As a bladebound magus increases in level, his black blade gains power.
I pick a scimitar because it qualifys.
Dervish dance states
Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.
First sentence - I can use dex instead of str for hit and dmg rolls with scimitar. Thats cool because im using one now.
Second sentence - If a class feature or a feat requires that I use a piercing weapon , I can use a scimitar instead. Doesnt alter my scimitar at all. Just says that I can use a scimitar with things like precise strike.
I think your reading the periods as comas. Each sentence is the start of a new part of the ability and not related to the other ones.
There is no "a" in Sentence. You spell sentence with 'e' as the only vowel.
There is no "a" in Sentence. You spell sentence with 'e' as the only vowel.
Yes , my spelling isnt great. Still right though.
Just helping out.
Good day Masika.
You're running into a problem because you've stopped reading a sentence before the period. " You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability)."
Is the black blade a class ability that requires a one-handed piercing weapon?
No.
The black blade class ability states it is always a slashing weapon, rapier or sword cane. My issue is that while you use the scimitar with dervish dance it is treated as a piercing weapon for class abilities. Black blade is a class ability and it is always slashing.
Just to echo everyone else in my own preferred format:
Masika, you're missing the second half of that phrase.
You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability)
If the feat or class ability doesn't require a piercing weapon, then the first part of the sentence has no effect.
The ability doesn't let you deal piecing damages, you just get to TREAT the weapon as if it were Piercing for feats and class abilities. It won't be of ANY help against DR/Piercing.
By RAW the scimitar is a slashing weapon regardless of the Dervish Dance feat. It does not change the weapon to a piercing weapon.
As a DM you can certainly house rule other weapons effective with Kensai. Making it a slashing sword was unnecessarily limiting.
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Dervish dance states
Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.First sentence - I can use dex instead of str for hit and dmg rolls with scimitar.
OMG. I just realized that the last sentence above, though accepted by everyone AFAIK, myself included, is actually RAI and not RAW.
RAW states that "When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls." But it does not specify that the DEX instead of STR on melee attacks and damage rolls applies only to the scimitar. In fact, it does not even require you to attack with the scimitar, only to wield it.
By the current wording of the feat, you can apply the DEX instead of STR to any melee attack you make while wielding the scimitar. If a Monk with Dervish Dance wields the scimitar and makes a flurry of blows with his empty hand (or any part of his body), he can use DEX instead of STR on melee attacks AND damage rolls ^^
Looks like I didn't need to buy that Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists for my PFS character after all.
Mind you, I will not even try to get this past my PFS GMs (or anyone in fact), RAW or not :-)
Old news check the archives.
Anyone want to go off on the definition of "wield"? Because that discussion is needed again.
Too tired Martha, not tonight.