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As it was suggested to me, following the original thread :
Here is the Comprehensive Guide for Game Masters and players on the form of a google document, which means that you can comment it as you wish directly by clicking on the part of the text that you particularly approve/disapprove with, and propose changes that can be made quickly !
So, talk it out basically?
I have a player who's an older guy (almost 30) well educated and outgoing in a lot of ways who plays A LOT of video games and my current campaign is only the 2nd time he's RPG'd.
The first game he played 2 basic characters: Rogue (Sneaky) and a Fighter (Lance). Both were a lot of fun but low on the roleplaying - his attacks were "I attack. 25 damage."
Now this current campaign. I let the players know up front that I don't want larping or anything but that creative use of ALL skills and powers would be needed, including the social ones. I also told them up front that they would need to be a little self motivating since I didn't want to railroad them anywhere. As a way to get the players thinking along these lines I asked for a few sentences to a couple paragraphs of character background.
THe guy in question gave me the following: He's playing a female Paladin, under description he wrote "mighty swagger" and for background he put down "something happened and now she has amnesia."
Ok, so, the talking began. I've set up some pretty important roleplaying scenes with the Paladin at center stage but he flounders so I figure; he's having no fun. I put in A LOT of fight scenes since he says he prefers that to non-combat encounters and no real ignition there. I've asked several times if he's having fun and always an enthusiastic yes but then in game he looks like he'd rather be editing code.
One last thing to help illustrate my point. I've worked organically with the kid for months now, helping him develop his background into a central plot point; the Lady Paladin's tragic past may unlock the reason for a war between nobles. On top of that I've developed an entire order of paladins around her ideals and laid out the tenets of her faith. I've asked for some final feedback on the order when he has the time; that was a week ago and I'm still waiting.
I've worked with all the players like this (except one; the uber-tactical guy that knows more about maximizing characters than I do) so I'm not singling him out, but the other folks have provided feedback, we've collaborated, and each of them has had the chance to take center stage and loved it. The Paladin after 3 levels is finally being forced by ME the GM to detect evil on the very obviously undead bodyguard of another character and when I warned that if he doesn't take SOME kind of action he'll lose paladinhood that STILL didn't provoke a response.
I am approaching the end of my rope. The guide says if one person's not having fun no one is. By that logic we have a really boring game but the other players seem to honestly get into it. I will say that all of the group have complained I've let a complicated plot get a little out of hand but I've digested this and taken some steps on that regard. But is that it? Does he feel lost and just needs to buddy up to someone for a little while? If so I've asked a couple other players but no one seems keen on the idea of mentoring.
Could it be the character? He's admitted he wants a heavy damager and doesn't like getting ragged on by the Barbarian's player but the Paladin build is all over the map; dijuncted feats, maxing skill points willy nilly in whatever we MIGHT need in the next game... I've tried working that angle too offering 3 houserules that basically do what certain feats do with the paladin's det. evil just as skill checks, gave him a masterwork shield at 2nd level made by the party's chief NPC, and created a really cool suit of free movement leather armor to compliment the one level dip he took in Ranger.
Anyway, PLEASE ADVISE. It's gotta be a combination of things but any help would be greatly appreciated.
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I posted a long answer and clicked by mistake on "cancel". I hate myself, but I'll shorten the answer to this : talk to him like you just did to us, or find what he loves and provide him with it. We had these players in our group, and the answer was to flatter their ego with implicating roleplay that makes them shine on their schtick and personal drama they have fun to deal with ; or enigmas and puzzles, to the point one of our player's first reflex as a full-bab class was to check on any new library when entering a town.
My suggestion to the above is that he doesn't enjoy the game as much as you do. This is hard to swallow sometimes, and people will just play to hang out, or get out the house.
Also, if you really think about it, you're investing so much into this person, but your not getting that same energy returned to you it seems, so I'd just drop it and let him do his own thing. I'd not even remind him when it's game day and see if he even shows. If he doesn't show, don't bother him about it, and just take it as is.
So I talked with another player yesterday about the Paladin player in question. It seems he enjoys the game, what he's not into is plot or character development. Period.
He honestly could care less who the evil villainess is, why they're after her and what the ramifications would be if they don't thwart her plans. He also doesn't care if his character has friends/family, interesting quirks or a personality.
What he's looking for is a series of fast paced encounters of an epic nature strung together loosely with an obvious start at one end and a pile o' loot at the other. In other words; he'd rather be playing WOW or Descent.
Not that there's anything wrong with that; some of my best friends play WOW and Descent. But I think when we get together next I think I'm going to strongly suggest a few things:
1) Play another character. A Paladin, in the particular style of game I'm running needs at least a LITTLE forethought and has a code of conduct I'm enforcing. If you're not interested in roleplaying, don't play a character where its built right in.
2) Optimize your build. One of his high points according to the other player I spoke with is that my Paladin-player enjoys epic fight scenes like when the other 2 characters went down along with both henchmen, leaving a wounded paladin and barbarian staring down a green dragon which they promptly charged earning one critical hit each on their initial attacks (it was AWESOME!)
Anyway, that's what he wants and he gets very frustrated with story scenes (talking with NPC's, narratives, flashbacks and such) and when other players at the table take forever with their turns.
I won't COMPLETELY cut out the story but I'll rein it in and keep slower players in check (I use the announcement "on deck" when someone's coming up next so maybe I'll add a time component as well) but if he likes epic fights; be epic in your build. I'll even help him or send him here for some advice.
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Another issue is that it is hard to role play with two characters. For really good role play you have to get into the mindset of your character and when you are switching between them, that can be hard. When I have a campaign that is light on players, but we need a little help, I usually have the players think of one character being their main and the other being like an alt or manservent type thing.
For example, a cleric with a paladin guard. The main character is the cleric, and the paladin is pretty much there to support the main character. Sorta like a free minion with the same level and your character.
In the example of the rogue/fighter. Say, the fighter is the main character, maybe a former guard that saved the life of the rogue and saw something in him that stopped him from throwing him into jail. Now the rogue is the fighters sidekick that helps him defeat evil.
Something like that.
Have him play 1 character. have him play a character who is a happy-go-lucky, live-for-the moment thrill-seeker who is after fortune and glory.
...have everyone in the world react to the character as if he were a real person. this is the key way to get across the nature of RP IMHO. The world is real, or rather, it behaves like it's populated by real people - even if the player is playing a bizarre stereotype unrealistic person.
Obviously the fights need to be epic, but he also needs to understand that other players like RP scenes and he needs to accommodate that. Also - try "slipping in" RP during fights - villains declaim and react to him; you may grant him the discretionary +2 bonus if he describes something well.
his attacks were "I attack. 25 damage."
Interestingly I don't say much more than that when I attack, except maybe which weapon I'm using, but I still role play. XP
But seriously, I saw the other thread where you were talking about this guy and I was sort of wondering why you didn't just have him make a new character back then. I know it's not fun forcing a player to do something like that, but it's not as if he is heavily invested in this character. Still, I just wanted to give my support to your above decision.
I suggested some minor grammatical/semantic changes in comments, nothing life or death.
Another thought:
Two of the best pieces of advice I've ever read about how to GM:
1. The Art of the GM is letting the players win without them realizing that's what you're doing.
2. When considering a difficult or problematic request by a player, do not approach the issue from the perspective of why you want to say "no." Think about the reasons why you can't say "yes," and go from there.
Sadly, I've long forgotten who said these things to me, but they remain some of the best guidelines that I've used when GMing.
If appropriate, maybe something along those thoughts could be included somewhere.