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We Duergar have been ignored for far to long. I thought perhaps with the up-coming Race Guide, we might finally get our moment in the Spotlight......
I was wrong.
We might not even get 2 pages in this discriminatory tome!! While our most hated foe, the Drow get 6!!! So now I say to all Duergar, to all true sons and daughters of the deep, Rise Up!!!!! In the name of Droskar and Laduguer, Rise Up!!!!! It is time to hoist your +1 Warhammers of Simte-y-ness, and cast down those elf-loving imperialists at Paizo!!! Do it for the little bald children out their, working their fingers to the bone in the foundries (because we sent them their). Do it for your grey-skinned mothers, whose hair has fallen out from stress (or genetics, whatever). Show them that we Duergar are a proud, noble people, who believe in the goodly values of toil, slavery, greed, and religious fanaticism. Today, our Voices will be heard!!!!!
I think it is just attention in general. <---Main Point.
Related-->I like the darkfolk better than the drow mechanically. I considered reskinning them into a new/different drow type since I can't seem to find the time to come up with how they were created.
Yes I know Duergar get a little blurb in Into the Darklands, but it just seems a little unbalanced to me that Drow and Dhampir and Catfolk and all them get 6 pages, and the venerable Duergar, probably my all-time favourite D&D/Pathfinder race, and a veteran of the game, might not even get 2! And yes I really was hoping for some alternate favoured class options, or maybe some Duergar only feats.
I also wrote the above rant more as a joke (although I stand by every word!)
Well, Raging Swan has Duergar of the Obsidian Citadel coming out next year. As the author of the project, I can tell you that while it is geared towards GMs, like all of Raging Swan's Tribe supplements, it will have new feats, spells, magic items and class archetypes/options for this particular tribe of duergar. When it gets closer to release, Raging Swan usually posts a sample page as well as the contents page which will detail what's in the supplement. As a duergar lover myself, I'm having a blast writing it and maybe it will scratch your itch a bit.
Creative Director
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Yes I know Duergar get a little blurb in Into the Darklands, but it just seems a little unbalanced to me that Drow and Dhampir and Catfolk and all them get 6 pages, and the venerable Duergar, probably my all-time favourite D&D/Pathfinder race, and a veteran of the game, might not even get 2! And yes I really was hoping for some alternate favoured class options, or maybe some Duergar only feats.
I also wrote the above rant more as a joke (although I stand by every word!)
Every zero HD race gets at least 2 pages. At least, that's my understanding.
Conversely... my understanding is that NO race that has racial HD gets anything in this book. That includes things like derro, lizardfolk, and gnolls.
The book is already bursting at the seams with content—we can't do every single possible race in the book.
That said... there's no reason why an enterprising GM can't take one race's rules content and adapt it to minotaurs or nagas or whatever...
I'm really excited for the book. I'm going to buy it once it comes out and it's cheaper on amazon. :P
I too am very excited about the Ultimate Race Guide, but it would be better if it had more Duergar-y goodness.
I've already been busy building up 'lesser' harpies, satyrs, minotaurs and the like for my own use. I like the fact I will be able to build these races in such a way as is transparent and (hopefully) balanced with the normal races in a game.
Also -- Go ahead Duergar, rise up... just remember it's the tall grass that gets cut the most.
I've already been busy building up 'lesser' harpies, satyrs, minotaurs and the like for my own use. I like the fact I will be able to build these races in such a way as is transparent and (hopefully) balanced with the normal races in a game.
Also -- Go ahead Duergar, rise up... just remember it's the tall grass that gets cut the most.
Well, technically with their enlarge person spell-like ability they can rise up, quite a bit up.
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Go ahead Duergar, rise up... just remember it's the tall grass that gets cut the most.
{scribbles notes for new spell, Torag's Vengeful Lawnmower}
You're welcome Dr. By the way you should try out my prismatic happy birthday balloon spell. Lots of fun.
[scribbles notes for new spell, Torag's Vengeful Lawnmower}
I counter that with Droskar's Inconvenient Rock
By the way you should try out my prismatic happy birthday balloon spell. Lots of fun.
Thanks anyway, but I already picked up the new Armageddon Sebastian Gun last time I was in Nex.
Duergar are the main villains of the first part of my current office campaign, so rest assured that the staff has not been ignoring them! :)
I was trying to avoid mentioning the fact that we've been killing the hell out of the duergar in that dungeon to avoid hurt feelings... but yeah.
A lot of them got killed. We also took their stuff. And took one prisoner and kept him around until he was of no further use and then we gave him to our dwarf buddy to execute.
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I've been pondering replacing dwarves with duergar in my homegame and shifting their focus from LE slavers to a more neutral alignment. With their spell-like abilities, duergar, in my opinion, are closer to the dwarves of Norse mythology than the more modern day, "Tolkien" dwarves of the RPG genre.
By the way you should try out my prismatic happy birthday balloon spell. Lots of fun.Thanks anyway, but I already picked up the new Armageddon Sebastian Gun last time I was in Nex.
Well at least Sebastian is doing something for the cause at last. It's about time he stopped wasting the power of those unicorn farts of his.
I too was thinking about writing up something about more traditional, Norse-Style Dwarves. But now that I think about it Duergar are more like Norse Dwarves. Thank you for mentioning that. Perhaps giving them Master Craftsmen as a bonus feat might give them even more Norse Flavour.
I too was thinking about writing up something about more traditional, Norse-Style Dwarves. But now that I think about it Duergar are more like Norse Dwarves. Thank you for mentioning that. Perhaps giving them Master Craftsmen as a bonus feat might give them even more Norse Flavour.
Reading through my old Time Life Enchanted World book, "Dwarves," is what made me think of the duergar. In the supplement I have coming out from Raging Swan, if you read the description, I'm trying combine the classic evil slaver duergar with the old world crafting dwarf. These duergar are like the mythological dwarves who made all kinds of wondrous items, but they became so consumed with that goal that they lost the ability to create anything else of beauty, hence they need to raid the surface world for slaves.
Aren't they a bit short to rise up?
Aren't they a bit short to rise up?
Aaah but don't forgot that enlarge person spell-like ability....
Aren't they a bit short to rise up?Aaah but don't forgot that enlarge person spell-like ability....
So they can rise up for a few minutes per day...hmm...
This revolution shall be short lived.
I don't really like duergar. This is mostly because the things that make them special, evil alignment and living far underground are not that unusual, and the rule rather than the exception, respectively. Of course they also get special powers, but I'm not really sure why that should go with the other two honestly.
I don't really like duergar. This is mostly because the things that make them special, evil alignment and living far underground are not that unusual, and the rule rather than the exception, respectively. Of course they also get special powers, but I'm not really sure why that should go with the other two honestly.
One could say exactly the same thing about drow. (I personally am not a big fan of either. Now taking drow stats and re-fluffing it as a spiderfolk race, on the other hand...)
I don't really like duergar. This is mostly because the things that make them special, evil alignment and living far underground are not that unusual, and the rule rather than the exception, respectively. Of course they also get special powers, but I'm not really sure why that should go with the other two honestly.
Until recently, I felt that way as well, that they were just there to be evil dwarves so that you had an excuse to kill dwarves. But, I think they have a lot of potential to be more than just that. Mythology has many stories of dwarves being sneaky, underhanded, and doing not so nice things to humans. That's how I see duergar now.
The new D&D Duergar are so cool, evil and different-than-before that I actually really dislike the Bestiary version of the duergar which is only a dwarf that is evil... (maybe it could use better artwork to change my mind)
Anyway the Duergar is one of the few creatures I like more in their D&D version, most others are better in the Bestiary.
I'm not familiar with their 4e version so I was looking at their wiki article. Didn't realize they were a playable race in the old Unearthed Arcana. I'll have to look that up when I get home.
Personally I'm of mixed feeling on 4e Duergar, and their poisonous beard quills. On the one hand they have some good art, and I love the idea of a beard natural attack (one of the reasons I loved the 3.5 Durzagon). On the other, poisonous beard quills? Really?
There definitely was a cool pic of what appeared to be a duergar wizard on the D&D website. Beard quills? I'm going to have to look these guys up next time I'm in a game store.
Well now that I think about it, beard quills aren't that bad. BUT it would be better if they had a beard MADE of quills, not just a beard with some pointy red things sticking out.
Derro have a full chapter dedicated entirely to them in Classic Horrors Revisited. Duergar get a page and a half in Into the Darklands......and thats it ......
If you need some Derro and Duergar love D&D 4E is the place to be at the moment they are really into the Duergar and Derro. (Duergar in monster manual 2 and Derro in monster manual 3, both having cool artwork for the first time EVER, as they both didn't even GET art in D&D 3rd edition monster manual...)
They are however one of the few things made better in 4E, most other things I'm not liking at all... so if you really only interested in Derro and Duergar just search their stats on internet/wiki and most of the pictures are also found on google
I'm disappointed in the artwork for the PAIZO versions of both evil dwarf-species, they could use some love and uniqueness as now they are 100% copies of their 3rd-edition boring D&D counterparts, but with D&D giving them finally some love they aren't needed to be boring and plain anymore.
Derro --> http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/166/6/6/Derro_by_BenWootten.jpg
Duergar --> http://images.wikia.com/forgottenrealms/images/b/bd/Duergar_-_Eva_Widermann .jpg
For whoever never seen their pictures before.
I don't like the 4e Duergar, because they're not the Duergar anymore, they're the Durzagon with a new name. To those who don't know what I am talking about, the Durzagon is a Half-Fiend (Devil specifically) Duergar, with poison spikes hidden in their beard, which is what all 4e Duergar have. I'd rather have my evil Dwarves who can turn big or invisible (or both) than morons shooting spikes out of their chins.
Oh, and I like my Duergar in two flavors: Lawful Evil, and Lawful Neutral. After all, Laduguer himself was a deity with Lawful Neutral tendencies, and I can imagine some clans of Duergar being a bit less EVIL though still retaining the angry and aggressive attitude they have, especially for aberrations (in Forgotten Realms, there's a good reason why they don't like Mind Flayers) and other Dwarves. Also, I loved the suggestion of giving Master Craftsman as a feat for them.
...and I made a thread for Changelings. They need some love too!!
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Duergars were pretty cool being their own classic selves in Kings of Absalom. Chanting, bleak underground halls and underhanded tactics aplenty.
I'd actually like to play as one since our current campaign is taking a turn to the depths, but there's very little info besides "evil, bearded, sometimes a thrall to Droskar". Yeah, that's how I like my duergar, but stuff like family structure, politics and personal life would be interesting to see. Furthermore, it's far easier to make a character who isn't a mere walking cliche with these in place.
I don't like the 4e Duergar, because they're not the Duergar anymore, they're the Durzagon with a new name. To those who don't know what I am talking about, the Durzagon is a Half-Fiend (Devil specifically) Duergar, with poison spikes hidden in their beard, which is what all 4e Duergar have. I'd rather have my evil Dwarves who can turn big or invisible (or both) than morons shooting spikes out of their chins.
![/b]
Yes that is REAL fun...
Makes the Invisible Stalker and Spriggan pointless and less unique, if you want evil dwarves that don't change just give the normal dwarf the evil alignment and a dark beard and some learned spells such as invisibility and enlarge...
The 4th edition Duergar are rather unique on the other hand, can't compare them to anything, they don't want to be called dwarf anymore, another cool side-thing.
I don't really like duergar. This is mostly because the things that make them special, evil alignment and living far underground are not that unusual, and the rule rather than the exception, respectively. Of course they also get special powers, but I'm not really sure why that should go with the other two honestly.Until recently, I felt that way as well, that they were just there to be evil dwarves so that you had an excuse to kill dwarves. But, I think they have a lot of potential to be more than just that. Mythology has many stories of dwarves being sneaky, underhanded, and doing not so nice things to humans. That's how I see duergar now.
Yes, well I do the same thing, just with regular dwarves.
Yes, well I do the same thing, just with regular dwarves.I don't really like duergar. This is mostly because the things that make them special, evil alignment and living far underground are not that unusual, and the rule rather than the exception, respectively. Of course they also get special powers, but I'm not really sure why that should go with the other two honestly.Until recently, I felt that way as well, that they were just there to be evil dwarves so that you had an excuse to kill dwarves. But, I think they have a lot of potential to be more than just that. Mythology has many stories of dwarves being sneaky, underhanded, and doing not so nice things to humans. That's how I see duergar now.
I was hoping duergar would get some more options in the new Advanced Races book, because at home, I'm basically going to substitute them as dwarves as well. Though I can't recall the last time any of my players made a dwarf....
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Duergar always have a place in my games. They are usually more technologically advanced than other races, usually making heavy use of clockworks, constructs, golems and gunpowder. Not sure why but I find the idea of the evil dwarves living beneath you, with their soulless automata mildly disturbing, of not outright scary! They even have an offshoot cult that use a horrifying eldritch technology, a somewhat lovecraftian bunch hell bent on handing the world over to the old ones. The cult is universally feared and loathed for their debased technology. Hell on at least one occasion the PC’s even helped the Duergar (unwittingly at first) stop the cult. They were badly creeped out by the cult’s undead fusion of technology and construct, an adventure they will remember (fondly?)…