|
I wrote this message and then realized the thread was two years old.....
I understand the point of this thread and it largely is good advice, but I think there are two messages that perhaps are being equated.
The first message is "Don't dominate the scenario." I cannot argue with that. God mode isn't fun.
The second message I'm hearing is a combination of "Don't optimize" and "Be mediocre." This message isn't even close to the same thing as "don't dominate the scenario." There are at least 3 reasons for this.
1) This thread was written when the mods tended to be extremely easy when played with 6 players. This meant optimization would tend to lead to non-challenging scenarios.
2) Being good at something, like AC, doesn't mean the character can't be "found." I have absolutely terrified players like these when I'm behind the screen. Typically it's as simple as saying, "Make me a will save." Some mods don't allow for this, and that is the mod's fault, not the player's.
Right at the beginning of season 4, I had a GM at the first slot in a con give me a very obvious dirty look for making a melee oracle character with a good AC. In that same mod, the monsters pounded everyone into the ground and had me near death several times. The next 4-5 mods I played in were near tpks and I would have died in at least 3 of them if not for having a good AC.
3) I've seen near tpk's because players decide to use poor tactics and intentionally borderline characters, presumably so as to not steamroll a mod. Instead, the mod steamrolls the party. Time and time again I've seen even fairly new players downgrade their previously reasonable tactics and characters to fit the easier season 0 and 1 mods designed for 4 players but being played with 6.
A few weeks ago I had one new player make a reasonable bard, then play a easy season 0 mod, and remake himself into this paper sort of cutout of the concept he wanted without any ability to actually be useful in most situations. He literally was a bard without party buffs, combat skills, or even social skills. He then was shocked when he had a hard time contributing in a mod I was running. He then remade the character again into something more functional that could contribute in and out of combat, and he thanked me for it as his contribution the next week probably saved the party from a tpk.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
|
** spoiler omitted **...As another sign of everybody is different your example drives me nuts Walter.
When I read about examples like that I don't see a real weakness. You had already killed the BBEG, sure there was some trash to clean up but no real threat.
I don't feel like I'm describing myself very well here at the moment. I think I'll try again later though.
No worries Rob. I think that story is a good example of a non-mechanical disadvantage. A mechanical disadvantage being a terrible AC or certain save and a non-mechanical disadvantage being one where you decide your character would never strike a lady, and refuses to fight female NPCs.
To elaborate on that story with scenario spoilers
I had played the scenario previously, and knew that the NPC I slaughtered wasn't the end of the fight, thus allowing my teammates to be useful in the real final fight, while also giving me a nice opportunity to roleplay
Here are other examples of mine if it helps you formulate your response.
Barbarian: unable to deal damage to a swarm of rats, foolishly lifted the gnome sorcerer over her head and waded into the middle of them so he could burning hands down into the entire swarm and herself. She nearly died, but it was hilarious.
Duelist: although very very very specialized in using a blade, set it down to square off again one enemy during a certain encounter, because they had been arguing about principle. The bad guy was a monk (to my chagrin), and I got my ass handed to me during the fight.
Rogue: in the few rounds before a fight broke out, my character offered to break bread with the minions of the enemy party. I pulled over a small table and had drinks with them before the fight. During the fight, I wasted actions keeping my drinking pals alive, because it's what he would have done -- rather than focusing down enemy spellcasters.
Bard: despite having good hit bonuses and decent damage, he often spends turns aiding other archers, or positioning to get flanking for melee characters. He sees himself not as an adventurer, but a chronicler of their great deeds. After any combat wherein he actually downed a foe, he credits his comrades with the victory, making sure to "improve" his chronicles accordingly. I've also spent turns with him positioning other players, or drawing scrolls and potions for them.
|
|
Duelist: although very very very specialized in using a blade, set it down to square off again one enemy during a certain encounter, because they had been arguing about principle. The bad guy was a monk (to my chagrin), and I got my ass handed to me during the fight.Rogue: in the few rounds before a fight broke out, my character offered to break bread with the minions of the enemy party. I...
Some of these stories are funny. Others resemble some of the stories we tell about what not to do as a player.
I remember one particular dragon fight during a home game where the rogue did nothing but pick up gold off the dragon's hoard. Characters died, but the rogue survived.
A PFS example: I was playing with a barbarian who was a coward and a drunkard who could bolt at any moment, or go off drinking by himself, etc. If he thought it was going to be easy he would go drinking by himself. If the fights got hard, he was outta there! That character caused a lot of deaths.
PFS fights are swingy. If the enemy spellcaster gets off one too many spells, the fight could be over. If the enemy gets off a crit, the whole party might fall. If you're sitting around not contributing, then other characters may die.
For example, the closest thing to a superman character I have died once. My problem with that fight was a rolled a 1 on init. Did a reroll and got another 1. This meant I had one action before dying instead of two. If I would have had two actions, there is a good chance we would have lived instead of tpking.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
Another note: if everybody's ploughing through the combats like a knife through warmed butter, and everybody's having fun, then there's nothing to fix.
Superman's a team player, but he doesn't watch Green Arrow get his head blown off fighting Sinestro, just so GA feels like he's contributing.
|
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
|
Some of these stories are funny. Others resemble some of the stories we tell about what not to do as a player.
Exactly. They're sub-par tactics, and non-optimal decisions to make. But ones I choose to make with my characters to make them more than statistics, and also to occasionally to bring them down a peg if I feel I could easily take the spotlight away from others.
Another note: if everybody's ploughing through the combats like a knife through warmed butter, and everybody's having fun, then there's nothing to fix.
Superman's a team player, but he doesn't watch Green Arrow get his head blown off fighting Sinestro, just so GA feels like he's contributing.
Naturally. And I don't see any of my actions as things that genuinely endanger my party members. While my barbarian was sobbing, I was still getting attacked by foes -- when duelist dropped his blade, he was still holding an enemies attention, etc.
Superman will do everything in his power to protect Green Arrow, but knows that if Supergirl is there she can protect the team just as well. This frees Superman up to run out with the Flash and grab pizza for the rest of the team as their usual mid-game snack.
|
Some of these stories are funny. Others resemble some of the stories we tell about what not to do as a player.
Let me get this straight. So if there's a fight that's been going on for 7 or 8 rounds already, where all the monsters are still alive and fighting, but half the PCs have been down to negative HPs at least once, you're saying that a PC who just got brought back to consciousness by an ally shouldn't wander off to go do their faction mission instead of using their sword to help?
|
|
Some of these stories are funny. Others resemble some of the stories we tell about what not to do as a player.
Let me get this straight. So if there's a fight that's been going on for 7 or 8 rounds already, where all the monsters are still alive and fighting, but half the PCs have been down to negative HPs at least once, you're saying that a PC who just got brought back to consciousness by an ally shouldn't wander off to go do their faction mission instead of using their sword to help?
Still a bit fresh for you you eh?
I think half the party is going to multiclass into cleric to be just like you. ;) That is what you get for being unique!
|
|
Some of these stories are funny. Others resemble some of the stories we tell about what not to do as a player.
Let me get this straight. So if there's a fight that's been going on for 7 or 8 rounds already, where all the monsters are still alive and fighting, but half the PCs have been down to negative HPs at least once, you're saying that a PC who just got brought back to consciousness by an ally shouldn't wander off to go do their faction mission instead of using their sword to help?
Still a bit fresh for you you eh?
I think half the party is going to multiclass into cleric to be just like you. ;) That is what you get for being unique!
LOL Just to let everyone in on the joke, what I described actually happened two days ago, with Furious Kender as the GM and me as one of the other players at the table. I'm not upset about it or anything, but I thought it would be amusing to mention after seeing your comment.
The situation was a bunch of level 1s getting our butts kicked by three baddies in the last fight of the adventure. The party bard, who was out of spells and performance rounds for the day by that point, decided to hit the front lines with his longsword, only to get knocked to negative HP within a round. When the druid heals him back to positive HP, the first thing he does when he wakes up is starts examining things in the room, rather than using the sword to help. We were just starting to turn the tide of battle in our favor at that point, so it ended up not mattering, but after such a long, grueling fight, I just had to shake my head.
As for my cleric, I'm still shocked I performed that well with such an oddball concept build. I'm still trying to figure out how he was so effective so many times in the scenario without ever doing more than 5 HP damage at a time.
|
|
LOL Just to let everyone in on the joke, what I described actually happened two days ago, with Furious Kender as the GM and me as one of the other players at the table. I'm not upset about it or anything, but I thought it would be amusing to mention after seeing your comment.
...As for my cleric, I'm still shocked I performed that well with such an oddball concept build. I'm still trying to figure out how he was so effective so many times in the scenario without ever doing more than 5 HP damage at a time.
It was a very fitting and recent example.
As for your cleric, you had a decent AC, good saves (go melee cleric), and a toolbox of tricks. Every time I hit you for big damage, I kept smacking that mirror image of yourself. It was very useful and allowed the party to recover over and over again.