Being new to Pathfinder I am having trouble finding all of the information about stacking. I sure wish there was a section in the core book about all the things that stack and what gives each type. Here are a few questions that I have now.
1). So for example, I understand there are some things that stack for A.C. like dodge. So what items give dodge? What are all the things that add to A.C. and what part of the A.C. do they add to? Where do I find this information?
2). What are all the things that stack for your attack bonus? I know you get a BAB from your class. If using melee do you add your str mod? or say I am using 2h weapon do I get to add 1.5 x str mod? What else gets added to your attack mod.
3). Staying with attacking, What gets added for your damage? What about crits?
4). What about spells that stack? A caster (cleric/wizard I think) used a spell that gives you like 4 options of which you choose one. one of the options was 30' more movement. The next round he cast haste. Would these spells stack? (pretty sure the spell was out of the caster book/ultimate combat.)
Finally where do I find all of this information at? I feel overwhelmed trying to figure out what stacks with what and where to look to find the info. Any help appreciated.
Thanks,
+J
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Quick and simple rule : similar bonuses don't stack, with the exception of Dodge bonuses.
Every time an effect adds to your AC, to your attack, to a stat... the kind of bonus is clearly written ("armor", "luck", "sacred", "deflection", "enhancement", etc) in the ability. If there is no kind of bonus written (really rare), this is an unnamed bonus and these always stack with any other.
It you have a Belt which provides a +2 enhancement bonus to your Strength, the Bull's Strength spell which provides a +4 enhancement bonus would give you a final enhancement bonus of +4, as it supercedes the belt's power.
If you have an armor and want to wear bracers of armor, only the higher bonus would apply, the other would have no effect.
Edit : also, every answer you need about what kind of bonuses and how to calculate attack/damage rolls or AC, you will find there.
Almost everything that gives a bonus lists a type of bonus.
Most equipment that boosts strength for example, lists an enhancement bonus to strength. Anything that lists the same kind of bonus doesn't stack, except for untyped (it doesnt say) or dodge (specific case). Dodge bonuses are almost never found on items, and are more often found on feats (Dodge, Combat Expertise) and class abilities (Monk Ki Pool ability).
2. Your attack bonus consists of your BAB, Size, Strength and misc modifiers. You can get other types of bonus, like morale (bard song) but these are normally case by case, and you can look at the ability to see what type of bonus it grants. Specific weapons will have enhancement bonii when they are enchanted to add to your attack.
When using a 2h weapon you still use your normal attack mod. If you had an 18 str (+4) and BAB 1 (+1) you'd have a +5 to hit
3. Damage is done the same way as attack, except you do get 1.5x your strength mod to damage, not to attack. Round down for partials. Crits multiply damage by the crit modifier, but don't tend to multiply damage dice (sneak attack, for example).
4. Spells. You'd have to look at both spells and see what type of bonus was provided. If the caster cast Expeditious Retreat (my guess from your post) the text here is as follows:
This spell increases your base land speed by 30 feet. This adjustment is treated as an enhancement bonus.Haste has the following text:
All of the hasted creature's modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet, to a maximum of twice the subject's normal speed using that form of movement. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus
As you can see, both bonii are enhancement bonii, and therefore don't stack.
Hope that helps. I honestly dont recall everywhere that info is from sadly, its all in the noggin at this point
4). What about spells that stack? A caster (cleric/wizard I think) used a spell that gives you like 4 options of which you choose one. one of the options was 30' more movement. The next round he cast haste. Would these spells stack? (pretty sure the spell was out of the caster book/ultimate combat.)
My guess is the other spell was blessing of fervor from the Advanced Player's Guide.
That spell says it doesn't stack with similar spells, and even names haste specifically (twice):
Blessing of Fervor
With this blessing, you call your allies to move forth and empower them to conquer and become victorious. Each round for the duration of this spell, each of your allies can choose one of the following bonuses for that round at the beginning of its turn (their choice).
•Increase its speed by 30 feet.
•Stand up as a swift action without provoking an attack of opportunity.
•Make one extra attack as part of a full attack action, using its highest base attack bonus.
•Gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls and a +2 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves.
•Cast a single spell of 2nd level or lower as if it were an enlarged, extended, silent, or still spell.These effects are not cumulative with similar effects, such as those provided by haste or a speed weapon, nor do they actually grant an extra action, so you can't use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round. Blessing of fervor does not stack with haste.
As for where you can find answers, try Paizo's online PRD. All of the information from the Core Rulebook, Bestiary 1 and 2, the Advanced Player's Guide, the GameMastery Guide, Ultimate Combat, and Ultimate Magic can be found there.
Thanks to everyone for replying, Blessing of Fervor was indeed the spell that was cast. I take it there is no "list" of bonuses so basically I need to look up each magic item to make my own list? That seems like a lot of work, doubly so since I only have the core & apg books. Guess I can get started with those.
One last thing, is there a book/cards that have all the spells on them for each class? I was doing some searching and I seen some things however, I don't want to print stuff off. I just want to purchase or make my own (making my own seems like a huge undertaking & I have poor handwriting). The only draw back I see to purchasing is when they come out with new spells.
On that note how do you guys do spells? Do you make the caster know the info? Do you have them look it up when they cast it? Do you look it up? Seems to me casting spells has the most difficulty due to interpretations of the wording/ not actually knowing how long it lasts/ how many targets/ range/ etc. So how do you deal with spell casters in your group.
Thanks,
+J
On that note how do you guys do spells? Do you make the caster know the info? Do you have them look it up when they cast it? Do you look it up? Seems to me casting spells has the most difficulty due to interpretations of the wording/ not actually knowing how long it lasts/ how many targets/ range/ etc. So how do you deal with spell casters in your group.
When I run games, I typically look up spells I don't know from before. Some of the players who run spellcasters in my group print out a page of the spells they have access to or like to cast, which saves the time to locate the spell in a book.
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Arcane spellcasters have to either learn their spells by gaining level (like the wizard who chooses two new spells when leveling), copy them from scrolls, copy them from another's wizard spellbook, discover them through roleplay, or invest gold and time to create/get a new spell. They then have to choose which they wish to be able to cast during the day in the morning by putting spells in their level appropriate slots.
Divine spellcasters simply choose in the morning/after meditation the spells they want to prepare for the day. The full list of spells is available to them at any time and they don't need to learn them.
Note that spontaneous casters don't need to prepare spells in the morning but only have a fix amount of spells known (as shown on the "spells known" tables) ; such casters cannot learn more spells than indicated on the table, and tend to be easier to deal with on new gaming groups.
As a rule of thumbs : if you cast a spell, you have to know what it does. At least, when you are far enough in the game that you should by now know your spells without having to refer to the text each round.
I don't know much spells unclear about what they do and how much time they last ; such informations are always clearly written black on white and the rare spells that were really unclear are made so the game master can adapt it's uses on the situation, or have already been errata-ed.
If you want lists of spells and rules, explore the d20pfsrd.com link I posted on my previous post, it possesses the spell list of each class, including the supplement where the spell comes from and a full description of each spell.
When I run games, I typically look up spells I don't know from before. Some of the players who run spellcasters in my group print out a page of the spells they have access to or like to cast, which saves the time to locate the spell in a book.
This is really helpful and can help casters feel different to their players (since they aren't looking at the same long list of 'all these spells' each time... only their own 'special' list).
There are a number of player created game aids out there, including spell page generators for compiling all a character's spells in one place. The one I recommend is Perram's Spellbook. It includes spells from Core Rules, APG, UC and UM, from the various Pathfinder Players Companions, Campaign Settings and some Adventure Paths.
It offers various formats for printing, and also allows you to write up a spell that you're not finding on Perram's lists and print it in the format you've chosen.
And don't forget to bookmark the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document. It's always handy to have this available if you use a laptop or tablet while gaming.
Would the enchantment bonus from a shield and the enchantment bonus from armor stack?
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Yes, because they enhance different things. One enhances the shield bonus to AC, while the other enhances the armor bonus to AC.
Note, however, that enhancement bonuses apply to a specific object or creature ability. The bonus on a +1 shield or +1 armor is not a "generic AC bonus" separate from the shield or armor. I only mention this because of a common mistake of adding the enhancement bonuses from magic armor and/or shields to the armor/shield bonus granted by bracers of armor and the mage armor and shield spells.
You can't transfer enhancement bonuses to other items/effects. Sorry, no sorcerers/witches/wizards with +1 silken ceremonial armor (+1 armor +1 enhancement, 0% arcane failure) and a +1 mithral buckler (+1 shield +1 enhancement, 0% arcane failure) getting an AC of 20 + Dex mod from mage armor (+4 armor) and shield (+4 shield). It's either 14 + Dex mod without the spells, 16 + Dex mod with mage armor and buckler, or 18 + Dex mod with both spells.
Okay thnx
Sorry to jump in, but I didn't see anything regarding Trait bonuses. Are they considered a different kind of bonus?
For example:
A character has the Focused Mind trait, which provides a "+2 trait bonus to concentration checks."
That same character has the Combat Casting feat, which provides a "+4 bonus on concentration checks made to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability when casting on the defensive or while grappled."
Since one bonus is from a trait and the other is from a feat, do they stack when the conditions for stacking are met?
non-specific bonuses, such as in the feat: Combat Casting, stack with everything.
Just to put it into an easy table form :
Things that Stack :
Dodge
Racial
Circumstance (Only if from different circumstances!)
Non-Typed Bonuses Always Stack
Things that Don't Stack
Enhancement
Competence
Luck
Sacred
Profane
Trait
Armor Class Bonuses that Stack
Armor (Includes Highest Armor Enhancement Bonus)
Shield (Includes Highest Shield Enhancement Bonus)
Natural Armor (Includes highest Natural Armor Enhancement Bonus, minimum Natural Armor for any creatures is +0)
Typed AC Bonuses (Luck, Profane, Sacred, Dodge)
When confused about whether something adds, look at the wording. For example, if a template says 'Grants a Natural Armor Bonus of 2', and the base creature already has Natural Armor, then you take the higher of 2 or the existing armor. On the other hand, if the template says 'Increase Natural Armor by +1', then you take the creature's existing Natural Armor and increase it by 1 (this is not an enhancement, it's a non-typed increase unless otherwise stated). Armored Kilt acts much the same way, it increase existing armor's armor bonus by 1, not as an enhancement, it's just a straight up increase.
"Typed" bonuses generally do not stack together, except for Dodge, Racial, and Circumstance bonuses. Trait bonuses are among the types that do not stack. If a bonus is "untyped", such as the bonus from Combat Casting, it will stack with all other typed and untyped bonuses.
Thanks for all the help, guys. :-)
I gotta say though, Mr. Nefreet, your reply confused me. You're saying that the Focused Mind trait bonus DOESN'T stack, but the Combat Casting feat bonus DOES stack. If one can't stack, but the other can stack, I'll assume they can stack.
Meaning: +6 to concentration checks when casting defensively or casting while grappled, but +2 for all other circumstances.
Cool?
"Typed" bonuses generally do not stack together, except for Dodge, Racial, and Circumstance bonuses. Trait bonuses are among the types that do not stack. If a bonus is "untyped", such as the bonus from Combat Casting, it will stack with all other typed and untyped bonuses.Thanks for all the help, guys. :-)
I gotta say though, Mr. Nefreet, your reply confused me. You're saying that the Focused Mind trait bonus DOESN'T stack, but the Combat Casting feat bonus DOES stack. If one can't stack, but the other can stack, I'll assume they can stack.
Meaning: +6 to concentration checks when casting defensively or casting while grappled, but +2 for all other circumstances.
Cool?
What he means is, trait bonus's don't stack with each other. They stack with other types of bonuses.
For example, if you chose two traits, one of which gave you a +1 trait bonus to Perception and added Perception to your class skills, and another that gave you a +3 trait bonus on perception that only worked at night, they wouldn't stack, you'd gain the biggest trait bonus only. So +1 during the day, +3 at night. Not +4 at night.
What he means is, trait bonus's don't stack with each other. They stack with other types of bonuses.
For example, if you chose two traits, one of which gave you a +1 trait bonus to Perception and added Perception to your class skills, and another that gave you a +3 trait bonus on perception that only worked at night, they wouldn't stack, you'd gain the biggest trait bonus only. So +1 during the day, +3 at night. Not +4 at night.
I feel like a choda. I gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. :)