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With the hardcover coming out, I am considering running a sequel campaign to Rise. My RotRL group defeated Karzoug, then pseudo-retired intending to continue to thwart Alaznist, who awakened shortly before they headed up to Xin-Shalast.
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There are a couple of things that happened. First, one friend is running Jade Regent, which is set approximately 5 yrs after my Rise campaign ended. Second, another friend is running Curse of the Crimson Throne, taking place approximately the same time. We all want it to be in the same world, with the things that happened in past campaigns to exist in current ones.
Now, I have considered running the sequel a good 15 years past the end of my Rise campaign. (Mostly, in part, to allowing one player to play his old PC's son.) I am also considering the final antagonist to be either Xanderghul, Sorshen, or possibly Alaznist (assuming she somehow avoided the "wrath" of the former PCs) but am undecided as to which.
Has anyone else decided to run a sequel, and what did you do? I am looking for ideas that I may not have thought of yet. I have several months before I would undertake this task, but I want to get a good foundation to build this campaign upon. Many thanks!
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With the hardcover coming out, I am considering running a sequel campaign to Rise. My RotRL group defeated Karzoug, then pseudo-retired intending to continue to thwart Alaznist, who awakened shortly before they headed up to Xin-Shalast.
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There are a couple of things that happened. First, one friend is running Jade Regent, which is set approximately 5 yrs after my Rise campaign ended. Second, another friend is running Curse of the Crimson Throne, taking place approximately the same time. We all want it to be in the same world, with the things that happened in past campaigns to exist in current ones.
Now, I have considered running the sequel a good 15 years past the end of my Rise campaign. (Mostly, in part, to allowing one player to play his old PC's son.) I am also considering the final antagonist to be either Xanderghul, Sorshen, or possibly Alaznist (assuming she somehow avoided the "wrath" of the former PCs) but am undecided as to which.
Has anyone else decided to run a sequel, and what did you do? I am looking for ideas that I may not have thought of yet. I have several months before I would undertake this task, but I want to get a good foundation to build this campaign upon. Many thanks!
The Shattered Star is a forthcoming Adventure Path. It appears that it will be a kind of sequel to Rise of the Runelords.
James Jacobs talks about The Shattered Star.Perhaps that will do?
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Thanks! I already knew about that... and would like to allow one of the others in my group run that, or perhaps I will use pieces of it when it comes out if they don't want to, but I may be running before the first one comes out. Skull and Shackles is coming out before that, right? So that is another 6 months at least (after Jade Regent ends in February.)
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What I am really looking for are little ideas, that people have done in their own campaigns. Plot twists and the like.
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I think a good sequel should have some of the following:
- Familiar places. Sandpoint should be important in at least one adventure. Revisiting some of the old dungeons could be very interesting. I think Thistletop would make a good low level dungeon to revisit, or an interesting high level lair of a dragon or something.
- Familiar faces. Ameiko, Shalelu and the others should appear or at least be mentioned. Some of the old enemies should appear again. Maybe one of Nualia's party, the Skinsaw men, an ogrekin, a lamia and, of course, giants.
- Similar themes. I think the original AP is more about fighting giants than fighting Runelords (though I haven't read all the adventures yet). Yeah, Mr. K. is the power behind everything, but the players spend a lot of their time fighting giants and defending themselves against the giant army. I think a Runelord should be in the sequel, but I'll do it more 'Against the Giants' oriented.
- Different places. At least one arc of the AP should be in a new and unexpected environment. Maybe, a lost island with underwater encounters, lost ships, and pirates. Others should be expected but new: fortresses, Thassilonian catacombs, etc.
- Different faces. Some changes should be made in towns and cities, so the players can feel the time has passed. Some old characters are dead, some young are now mature, some shops closed and new ones opened, some event changed a lot of things, etc.
- Mystery: because it's an important part of the first AP, but also because players now know a lot about the Runelords, the Sihedron Rune, etc. I think the events of the first campaign should be completely known to the new characters, so they can talk and role-play without the fear of metagaming. And you can use that knowledge against them: if they discover a dungeon with the seven pointed star, they will know that's important to the adventure, they will know that it will probably be dangerous and they will feel rewarded for their knowledge and participation on the previous events.
I think that a sequel should play against the player's expectations. They will surely think that a sequel will have to do with another Runelord, that Sandpoint will be the starting friendly town, that the sihedron rune will mean problems, that all sexy women will probably be lamias in disguise, and that sooner or later they will face giants. I think the best course of action would be to deliver some of their expectations but in ways that they will never expect them.
What if Sandpoint is not the friendly town they remember, but a decadent small city hat grew a lot thanks to the Cathedral and now is full of crime and untrustworthy people? What if the sihedron rune is now the adopted symbol of a new organization? What if the lamias are now their allies? (Amiko, the Lamia Matriarch renegade? :O) and what if this time the giants are a neutral faction that could go to war or remain in peace depending on the PC's actions.
Also, I wouldn't use another Runelord as a main villain. It's what everyone expects, but I think that would be too predictable. I would probably use some of the other Runelords, but not as villains but as faction leaders trying to acquire power but also tangled in a great mystery that plagues the region.
As a main villain, I would like a giant warlord, maybe an ancient ogre-mage who worked for Karzoug, or a frost giant jarl that wants to use some Thassilonian doomsday machine to create a frozen realm. Or... a mysterious mage-slayer who's great purpose is to kill all the Runelords and steal their powers.
Lastly, as a low level introductory adventure, I think a great start should be Chopper's Isle, because that was an interesting plot that never got explored in the original AP and would make the players think that all that time it was in reality a preview for the sequel.
Hope this ideas help you!
Rhada.
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Thanks Matias! That was the kind of help I was looking for.
Some of your suggestions were modifications that I did for my Runelords campaign already (Lamia going from enemy to ally).
I think you have a point there about not making the Runelords the BBEG. They should be intelligent enough to perhaps take the lesson of Karzoug's fall to heart, and attempt another means of re-establishing their reign.
I was considering a start to the campaign in Sandpoint at the 15th annual remembrance of the Swallowtail Festival that kicked the whole shebang off last time. And to parallel the Burnt Offerings, I was going to have a raid, but this time it would be bandits with goblins masks. I am still undecided, but I was thinking that they might be a gang from Magnimar that was mostly looking to vandalize and rob.
Down the road, I think I want to have an eerie light that draws them to Hollow Mountain across the sea. That used to be Xin-Bakrakhan, if I am remembering correctly. We could possibly have an encounter with Alaznist or her cronies that does not have to end up in combat, but can even possibly lead to them having her as their benefactor for a short time.
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Great advice and good ideas! I will take them to heart! Anybody else? :)
And to parallel the Burnt Offerings, I was going to have a raid, but this time it would be bandits with goblins masks. I am still undecided, but I was thinking that they might be a gang from Magnimar that was mostly looking to vandalize and rob.
What about a group of mad pirates operating in the region whose lair is hidden in the nearby islands? Their flag could be a green goblin skull and their leader an ex-adventurer who discovered a Thassilonian ruin and went completely insane because of it's magical traps. Maybe, their leader was captured some months ago during a smuggling job (using the old tunnels bellow the glassworks) and his execution is scheduled for tomorrow or something. The goblin pirates want to save their leader and, of course, do their piracy thing.
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With all of the teasers in RotRL it might be neat to have them meet/battle the Sandpoint Devil.
Might be more interesting to have to sneak into its lair when it is absent and get something.
You could also play a reverse-Foxglove. One of the sisters could have cleared and redeemed/rebuilt the Manor and have a major sense of antagonism to the old PCs (and their children) but becomes a real ally later on.
Dotting.
You all have some good ideas here. I am not near done with running my group through the first time around, but a good sequel might be in order!
Good luck running, it sounds like you all are on the right track.
SGH
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I started thinking... in my campaign world Alaznist has awoken, and Xanderghul is only a few years off. For the "sequel" I have been thinking that the other Runelords are extremely Intelligent, and have seen what happened to Karzoug and one of two things are possibly going to happen:
1) Alaznist decides to prepare for war, to re-take Bakrakhan by force; Xanderghul announces his presence to Riddleport, and offer them a place in New Cyrusian, Cyphermages jump at the opportunity helping him replace the city leaders. This occurrence will draw the ire of the old PCs, more than probably ending in the death of a few from both sides.
OR
2) With some help, Alaznist is talked into a more peaceful solution (with the uber Diplomacy of one of the former PCs) and though she often tests the boundaries, has created an uneasy peace with Magnimar; Xanderghul, with the humbling death of his only daughter (a former PC) by his own hand, re-evaluates his position and begins to put a decade long plan into action to regain his lost nation through misdirection and illusion.
Any thoughts?
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Briefly considered having the campaign kind of sand-boxy, and seeing if they wanted to try to re-establish Thassilon. Establishing nations while current ones exist could be problematic, but who knows if the PCs are good enough to overcome the obstacles posed by Kaer Maga, Riddleport, Korvosa, and Magnimar?
I've been working on a "continuing" campaign for a while. I was plotting out which Runelords would be where, what they were doing, and how they would be reacting upon their re-awakening. Then I asked a few questions on another thread;
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8mqq/discuss&page=9?Pathfinder-Adventure- Path-Rise-of-the-Runelords-Anniversary-Edition#450
See page 9 especially. If you don't feel like writing up a bunch of 20+ level Runelords and an adventure, there may be something brewing in the next few years from Paizo.
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Yes, now I see that you even posted on that thread. I know you're going in a different direction, but here's what I had been planning.
After the defeat of Karzoug, the heroes begin to find clues that the other Runelords are coming back. My PCs have established a base at Jorgenfist and are inadvertently protecting the library there. Thankfully, that is a good place to learn information on Thassilon and is a place that enemies would be attracted to as well.
Without the PCs knowing, I set the following points to give me an idea of what each Runelords was doing and his/her status because with high level adventures, and so many moving parts, I want to be able to react to whatever the PCs may do.
Sorshen: She is one of the first to awaken and become active. At the moment, she is remaining hidden and gathering some power in secret. More importantly, she is actively seeking out the other Runelords and trying to kill or stop them from returning. I was going to make her a CR 22, vampire enchanter.
Alaznist: She is the 2nd to return, and immediately starts gathering an army. Unfortunately, much of her realm has sunk. She tries using a hellfire flume, but it doesn’t work properly. She has to spend time finding or creating items to repair the magical weapon. Unfortunately for her, the test firing of the weapon has been noticed. She was going to be a CR 21 Eldritch Knight
Belimarius: She would have been the 3rd to return if Sorshen had not arrived first. If the PCs find her sanctuary, they will find most of the guardians destroyed and the remains of Belimarius. They may even arrive in time to see Sorshen and her elite minions leaving.
Zutha: He is calling out to the various pieces of the Gluttonous Tome. I may have a powerful necromancer arrive at Jorgenfist who is seeking knowledge from the library. If the PCs don’t allow him access, he’ll force his way. He may already have two of the books required. CR 23, necromancer.
Krune: I’m debating on whether he’d still be around or if he is imprisoned by a former planar ally. I could see a powerful demon betraying him sometime during the stasis. Perhaps the demon(lord), notices the disturbance in the runewells, and makes an arrival instead. He may even still have the runelord imprisoned in some magical cage. CR 24, conjuror.
Xanderghul: He is going to arrive last. I was going to have his sanctuary on another world that had been sealed off. The runewell’s reawakening causes enough disturbance that he has a way to return with his angelic slave army. I was going to make him a CR 25, probably wizard/monk.
Events of the Campaign
• While at Jorgenfist, the PCs defend the library from several groups that try to gain possession of the site possibly including; the aspis consortium, Riddleport, a wizard from the Acadamae, and a witch from Irrisen.
• Also while at Jorgenfist, they find many (almost too many) clues as to where the Runelords may have had bases of power.
• The PCs learn of a powerful magical attack on a group of ships near Hollow Mountain. One ship barely escapes, and survivors describe how a spout of fire emanated from one of the island’s mountainous peaks.
• At Hollow Mountain, they encounter Alaznist and her minions. They also find clues which lead to the sanctuary of Belemarius.
• The PCs encounter a necromancer who wants access to the library at Jorgenfist. This wizard is secretly seeking information on the last book of gluttony. Depending on how this encounter develops, the necromancer may be a continuous faction working against them.
• If and when the PCs investigate Korvosa, they will find that Sorshen’s agents have covertly taken over most government positions or assumed much power in the city without raising too many alarms. Sorshen has been quietly removing people of power, dominating other public figures, and silencing any who raise an alarm.
• If and when the PCs investigate Kaer Maga, they will find that a powerful plague has gripped the city. They eventually can trace the source to a powerful outsider who has taken residence and is unleashing plans for a horrific pestilence to be spread upon Golarion. Further investigation will reveal that this monstrosity once served Krune.
• Finally, rumors will reach the PCs of a massive army gathering near the Lands of the Linnorm Kings. Minions of Xanderghul are gathering and attempting to hasten the runelords return.
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But now, rather than stat this stuff out, I'll wait to see what Paizo has in store.
I will be running Rise of the Runelords when the anniversary edition comes out a few months from now, and I had thought about a follow-up adventure to take out the remaining runelords. At least some of them, anyway, assuming the players and their characters are interested in doing so.
I'm thinking that a straight-up gauntlet of the remaining 6 runelords won't be interesting, particularly since they're specifically wizards, and even though they specialize differently, it's going to seem like quite the chore more than an adventure. Some of Gray's runelords multiclass. So I might follow suit there. The AP says they're wizards, but I think I'll just ignore that restriction. Perhaps they were all wizards at first, but perhaps the later ones branched out a little, or defied convention anyway.
I'm also thinking "raid the wizard's sanctum" is also going to be a little repetitive. So, to combat that, I'll have to come up with some ideas. Some runelords will be more subtle than others, some might team up, one might not care about world domination and simply ally with the PCs. Something like that.
Alternatively, there could be a way to destroy the source of their power without attacking each one individually: "the Runespring"? I don't remember if there's a central source connecting all the runewells as stated by the AP, so if there is, I'll just use that, and if that is actually the Runeforge, make a hidden path lead to its "core". Or something. That might be the way to go, and sure, there will be runelords in the way of that objective, but which ones they face might depend on the party's actions.
I guess I ended up mostly brainstorming for myself here, but someone else may find it useful. I got at least a little something from all previous posters in this thread, so on that note, thank you!
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Thanks for your input, Stazamos. I still like the Runelords as single-class Wizards. I don't find it boring at all, but what I did do, was add a sort of "special forces" element to each nation.
I was brainstorming it for a while and came up with a few:
- Gastashi Shadow Weaver (Prestige Class/5 lvls) - To these warriors, shadows are their greatest weapon. They are known to fashion weapons from the demi-plane of shadow. The most powerful of them have even been known to be able to travel through the demi-plane of shadow with ease.
- Cyrusian Rune Warden (Prestige Class/5 lvls) - These were the elite troops of Xanderghul, the Runelord of Pride. They were juggernauts that led his armies into battle. The Rune Wardens are a blend of wizard and monk with many arcane enhancements to make them the greatest warrior that they can be.
- Shalastian Huntsman (ranger archetype) - Instead of casting divine spells, Karzoug’s infiltrators are trained in the arts of wizardry. Their limited training allows them to prepare spells as a wizard using the ranger spell table. They start with a spellbook with 1 plus their Intelligence bonus in spells, but are unable to cast until 4th level if their Intelligence allows it. At 5th level and every level thereafter, they add 1 wizard spell to their spellbook, up to the highest level spell that they can cast. Additionally, they have Illusion and Enchantment as prohibited schools.
- Bakrakhani Rune Knight (Prestige Class/5 lvls) - These war wizards excelled at fighting and blasting their way through the battlefield. They preferred the short glaive or similar bladed polearm in battle, and learned to get around the two-handed use and spellcasting. Currently, only a few Rune Knights remain in the service of Alznist.
- Harukan Soulbinder (Sloth/Conjuration)
- Eurythnian Mindbender (Lust/Enchantment)
- Edasserilian Spelleater (Envy/Abjuration)
Obviously, the ones that I have not finished are still in the works. In fact, I have not really fully worked any of them out other than the Shalastian Huntsman. I intend to expand on them as they become introduced in my campaign, but as I mentioned, it is still a ways off.
If any of you would like to use them, feel free to take the idea and run with it!
Our group is in the final module of RotRL and, though our GM has no plans to continue or revisit the storyline after we're finished, I've idly contemplated what a follow up adventure might be like. In character, I went out of my way to collect lore and witnesses (by preserving the bodies of defeated Thassilonian foes for post mortem interrogation) with the notion that my character will continue pursuing any remaining Runelords in the nebulous future.
Although there are some really good ideas in this thread I find that a few are rather... formulaic. I'm of the opinion that the way things played out for Karzoug shouldn't be the default starting point for the other Runelords. If I were playing through a sequel, I'd be rather disappointed to learn that the other six Runelords had:
1. Survived Earthfall.
2. Been inactive for the past 10,000 years.
3. Had only recently awoken.
4. Was trying to rebuild his/her power base.
5. Hoped to re-establish the Thassilonian empire.
That was Karzoug's unique story and simply rehashing it six more times isn't going to improve on the idea. I'd prefer to see things mixed things up. After all, Karzoug's method sort of failed from the beginning since he ended up powerless and asleep for over 10,000 years. The other Runelords might have met with more success or even greater failures depending on the unique strategies they'd adopted to survive; which were theoretically devised for them by their followers at Runeforge. Some of their survival plans might have failed outright or been purposefully sabotaged by traitors or agents of other Runelords. So one or more might not have survived Earthfall at all. Those that did survive might avoided Karzoug's "nap time" strategy in favour of something better. And, of those who did initially survive, some might have subsequently been killed already, possibly a long long time ago; perhaps by other Runelords or their agents.
Consider Krune, Runelord of Sloth. Sloth magic revolves around conjuration; especially summoning others to perform your work for you. So Krune likely had outsiders contacts and allies working for him. The easiest (i.e. laziest) way for him to have avoided Earthfall would be to have taken refuge on some other plane via plane-shifting; possibly with an significant entourage of sycophantic followers. Perhaps, finding his new digs to his liking, he's remained there ever since; carving out a sizeable (for Golarion) domain but one largely irrelevant when the size out the infinite planes is considered. Perhaps returning to Golarion seems like a pointless step back for him, or perhaps an idle command is all it would take for him to order legions of hellspawn warriors to commence a war of conquest in modern Golarion.
How about Xanderghul, Runelord of Pride. Perhaps he's been active in Golarion for some time but has been hiding his machinations with layers of illusion and subtle manoeuvres; letting people believe that the Thassilonian empire is long dead is the perfect cover. In fact, he never stopped being active in Golarion and has been the power behind countless thrones and regimes; pitting one against the other to further his a long term plan than lesser mortals couldn't possibly grasp. Nowadays he's a secretive Machiavellian figure quietly manipulating events throughout Avistan in one illusionary disguise or another. And yet, his foolish pride won't let him move on; he wants to rule what was once Thassilon. The idea has gnawed at him for some time. That's why, a few hundred years ago he had some of his pawns in Cheliax organize a wave colonist to conquer and rebuild modern Varisia. His current persona in that realm is none other than Haldmeer Grobaras Lord-Mayor of Magnimar and default ruler of greater Varisia. Since his recent orchestration of that upstart Karzoug's defeat (that was his doing, of course) he'll soon be ready to consolidate his power and have his Lord-Mayor persona declared King of the region.
Perhaps Sorshen, Runelord of Lust, didn't survive Earthfall in body, but did find a sanctuary of sorts by developing a more powerful version of Dominate Monster; which allows her disembodied spirit to control one or more other creature's bodies. A hedonist without peer, she's wiled away ages experiencing pleasures of the flesh in countless bodies. Nowadays her goals revolve around dominating ever greater numbers of creatures simultaneously; forming a unique hive-mind of creatures in distant areas nonetheless acting in concert. She's been aware of Xanderghul's manipulative activities for ages and has amused herself by secretly sabotaging his efforts so that they never reach fruition; a fact which has escaped and endlessly frustrated the proud Runelord.
And so on...
Dotted
Those are great ideas sir! Bravo! I applaud your sneakiness, especially when the players are confronted by the Lord Mayor and the revelation of who he actually is!
Thanks. I like the notion that one of the Runelords is already far along in his plan to rebuild Thassilon; that's what modern day Varisia is! I like to imagine that Karzoug, to those Runelords who've been considerably more active during the past 10,000 years, is a pathetic anachronistic laughing stock. "Ooh! Look who finally woke up! So what's good old Karzoug up to now? Rebuilding Shalast? Sorry buddy; way ahead of you there. And how's Special-K plan on doing that? With a broken down old Runewell and an army of giants? How quaint... Though rather outdated, no? Seems we can still count on the greedy bastard to think bigger and flashier is better. How about we make things interesting for good Karzoug, for old times sake? Lets try steering a small but promising group of adventurers into your upstarts giant army's vanguard up at Hook Mountain and see what happens? What's that? They found and killed Karzoug up in his great phallic tower? It didn't occur to him to update his security in the past ten thousand years? No? Oh well. That's what happens when you send one of your pitiful lamias to laughably try and assassinate one of my personas... Thanks for playing Karzoug. Better luck in your afterlife..." >=D
Why dwell on rebuilding a failed empire nobody remembers when you can instead guide the unfolding history of an entire world? Why strive to be a lone wizard when you can personally embody an entire legion of arcane, divine and martial masters? Why remain focused on a single material world when you can conquer entire planes? Karzoug's problem was that he was thinking like a petty Runelord of old instead of the modern incarnations that other Runelords have since adopted.