Rules for Hirelings

[BiggDawg]

TLDR - Are there any rules for hirelings? What limits on what types of things hirelings will do for their listed price are there in the game? Are there any fan made or 3P creations that cover this area if the core rules don't?

I was running Kingmaker over the weekend and I had a player that really wanted to develop the nation building side early in the game. I had reset the adventure path into Eberron (located in Q'barra) because I just love that setting. The character was a member of House Lyrandar and wanted to use some connections to rent an airship for a day or so to assault the Stag Lords fort. Another character was from House Deneith (mercenary house) and he wanted to hire some mercenaries to help in the assault. Both of them also wanted to build up Oleg's and reinforce it with some guards and crafters.

The equipment section discusses some services available for purchase. Specifically it says that a "trained hireling" costs 3sp per day. Under the description it says that this is a minimum wage and that others could cost more. It describes trained hireling as warriors, masons, cooks, etc. Are there any rules that cover exactly what service a character can purchase? Is hiring a guard to watch the camp the same service as paying a guard to walk in front of the party when they go into a dungeon? Is 3sp/day so much money to a normal person that they will do or risk anything?

I ask because the PC's felt that they should be able to hire up a bunch of 1st level Warriors for 3sp/day each and then use them to attack the Stag Lord fort. I was okay with using the price listed as base pay, but then said that if the Warriors are going to be used for an "adventure" that they would then want compensation beyond the base pay and would expect some kind of share in the treasure. They may also want more base pay depending on where the PCs where going to have them stationed. It seems like there is a world of difference in hiring a guard in a city and hiring a guard to leave the city travel 100 miles and then guard a trade outpost that until recently was dominated by bandits. This riled up the first PC and he argued that the entry specifically says warriors for 3sp/day and what else would you use warriors for then combat so I was cheating or something.

I had also ruled that any hirelings that where going to be sent out of the main city to Oleg's would want more compensation then the base listed amount because at the start of the adventure path Oleg's is way out in the frontier area and not considered safe at all. The extra cost would be gradually lowered as the PCs made the region safer and word spread that the Stolen Lands where pacified. Again the argument of "taking risk is what the base pay of a warrior is for" came out, but I felt that this argument doesn't really make any financial sense for the hireling. Why would the hireling want a flat rate regardless of risk?

Anyways sorry for the wall of text, any comments, flames, suggestions, or clarifications are welcome. Thanks!

[Kyras Ausks]

this may help and its free. ya free!!hirelings pdf .

[Mr. Green]

Tough problem that has been faced by many. Here is all that I can tell ya.

It's up to you as the GM.

But one can reference the Profession skill to get a good idea of what should be used..

Hireling, Untrained (1 sp/day) = NO Professional or Useful skills other than a body to carry, dig, do mundane minimal hard labor.

Hireling, Trained (3+ sp/day)

Ok so the Profession skill give 1/2 of the NPCs check in value per week in gold.

Thus 7 * 3sp = 21 silver or 2.1 gold

So the hireling has a skill of (if he can take 10 his ranks are negative 6.

Thus taking 10 provides him a skill check of 4 and thus 2 gold per week.

IF you wanted a competent labor that say when he takes 10 with his profession skill gets a 20 pay him 10 gold per week.

So by RAW as best as I can figure the Trained labors start with a skill of Negative Six and go up from there

Average Profession Check / Trained Hireling Cost
-6 2gp /week
-4 3gp /week
-2 4gp /week
0 5gp /week
2 6gp /week
4 8gp /week
6 10gp /week
8 12gp /week
10 14gp /week

Not sure if the above is helpful at all, but it follows RAW rules.

[Mr. Green]

Heck by RAW that means that the lowest cost for trained labor is:

Wisdom 7, Skill Rank 1, skill roll 2 (cause profession is in class for every one) so taking 10 the net result is a 12, then we divide by 2. And we get the Minimum cost for Trained Labor is 6 gp per week. That's 8 silver and 5 to 6 coppers per day.

Someone should fix the listing in the core book to as follows

Hireling, Trained 8 SP 5CP per/day

[blackbloodtroll]

Don't forget the 2CP for their red shirts.

[Doug's Workshop]

BiggDawg, the NPC "rules" are fairly open-ended. It sounds like what you did was mostly correct.

I always make NPC warriors/guards demand the price of their equipment as an up-front payment. You want to hire a bunch of chainmail-clad guys? Okay, you get to equip them. Older editions of the rules included that little quirk, and there's no reason not to include that expense.

In addition, any soldier is going to want his share of the loot; this was a common way to pay soldiers in medieval armies.

Finally, hiring those mercenaries means that the experience the PCs gain from defeating enemies gets reduced.

In short, I say you did right. No way an NPC is going to wander off into unknown lands for a measly 3sp/day.

Of course, I might just have said that they found a few mercs at that price . . . only to have the mercs be former compatriots of the bandits. Now that would be a fun scenario!
"Hey, Joe! Nice to see you again. Yeah, we were hired by those guys over there to come burn you out. Funny, right? I've been keeping my eye on them, and it sure seems like they got a lot more money than they're paying us. Whaddya say we go renegotiate our contract, eh?"

[blackbloodtroll]

You could always start a cult. Religious folk, tend to work for cheap.

[Stubs McKenzie]

Take a look into the Jade Regent Guide, travelers section. It is free, and gives costs per month based on skill set. It wont cover nearly every option, but gives a decent baseline pay for job type. For instance a cook runs 10 gp a month, whereas a guard runs 100 gp a month

[Starbuck_II]

BiggDawg wrote:

I ask because the PC's felt that they should be able to hire up a bunch of 1st level Warriors for 3sp/day each and then use them to attack the Stag Lord fort. I was okay with using the price listed as base pay, but then said that if the Warriors are going to be used for an "adventure" that they would then want compensation beyond the base pay and would expect some kind of share in the treasure. They may also want more base pay depending on where the PCs where going to have them stationed. It seems like there is a world of difference in hiring a guard in a city and hiring a guard to leave the city travel 100 miles...

Yes, the rules say level 1 gets 1 cp/level if unskiled.

3 sp/level is skilled (includes warriors like they want to hire).
Spellcasters rarely accept a salary and want to paid per spell.

So yes, they can do this (this won't hurt Exp or treasure distribution).
Hirelings/followers never get a share of treasure: they don't even get Exp.
You have to make the Cohorts/Ally to get that benefit.

Stubs McKenzie wrote:

Take a look into the Jade Regent Guide, travelers section. It is free, and gives costs per month based on skill set. It wont cover nearly every option, but gives a decent baseline pay for job type. For instance a cook runs 10 gp a month, whereas a guard runs 100 gp a month

That is ridulous. They make a chart of Hireling pay in the Core books then ignore it?

I mean, that guard is asking for 11 times the pay he should be getting (he should be asking for 9 gp/month).

[Malfus]

Starbuck_II wrote:

I mean, that guard is asking for 11 times the pay he should be getting (he should be asking for 9 gp/month).

Don't forget, the entry says that the price listed is minimum wages, and that most trained labor will ask for more. I assume a trained guard who has to keep constant vigil with the possibility of danger will ask for more than a chef who prepares meals 1-3 times daily.

[karkon]

I would let them do it at the pay the desire but before doing so I would create a short form systems similar to the 1st Edition morale system.

Basically morale was a number similar to leadership. It was adjusted by pay, treatment, danger, difficulty of work (for low danger but tough work--though you could hire miners who would also faced orcs or something. Killed morale quick if you did not pay well). There were other adjustments like charisma.

You could come up with 10 or so positive and negative modifiers with Charisma going either way. Everytime morale goes down you must make a diplomacy check with a DC of the current morale or the hirelings will refuse to work. By every 5 you fail 20% of remaining hirelings leave (round up)

Start with a base DC of 15

Positive modifiers (reduce DC)
-1 for every multiple of base pay. (double pay =+1, triple pay =+2)
-1 for being supplied with necessary tools (weapons, cooking supplies etc)
-2 for MW versions
-3 for magical versions
-2 for magical healing of wounds
-5 for raise dead used on killed hirelings
-2 if you have a base of operations

Negative modifiers
+ 1 for travelling away from hiring location
+2 for a lot of travel but still civilized
+5 for uncivilized or wild areas
+1 for minor danger (crazy things attack but party always handles)
+3 for serious danger (some hirelings get hurt but no one dies)
+5 for extreme danger (occurs with first death and every 10% of original population dead)
+2 if there is no base of operations

[EWHM]

A hireling that goes on an average low level adventure is facing risk comparable to a soldier that goes to an average war---it's just compressed in time is all.
If we figure that a soldier is worth 1 gp/day on ordinary duty (this is a warrior, not the scrub commoners that make up most of your militia, and not the elite fighter), and that a war is unlikely to go more than 100 days normally, 100 gp is a pretty reasonable adventure fee for a warrior, payable as a death benefit to the family or heirs in case of an unfortunate accident.
Another way soldiers might accept employment is for a 1/4 share, so 4 soldiers would be worth one 1st level PC in terms of treasure share.
Other soldiers might negotiate some hybrid of these two arrangements---perhaps a guaranteed 50 gp with a share that could go as high as 150 gp if a big score is made.
Remember that someone with a profession or craft skill can make 1 gp/day with low to normal risk. Anything as risky as adventuring will have to pay really well, like working in a combat zone as a contractor or on an offshore oil rig does today.

For examples of the kind of things that motivate soldiers to accept jobs like this (jobs way more dangerous than normal garrison duty), look to the price of spells...

Your son has a nasty chronic disease. It's likely to make him way less marriageable and cut your chances of grandchildren down massively. Cure disease from a fairly high level caster could fix that...for a price...
Your dad lost an arm in the sawmill...regenerate spells could fix that too
Your wife is barren, and she (and you) desperately want children
Your younger son looks to have a significant talent as a smith, and there's an opportunity in a new colony for him to get himself set up, but it will require a bigtime capital outlay---perhaps as much as a year or two of income
Your little girl was taken captive in a raid by a bunch of slavers. You'd like to ransom her back. Since she's a skilled cheesemaker (and thereby blessed), her ransom is 300 gp.

[Stubs McKenzie]

If you have 3-4 encounters a day, that is still less than a gold per encounter... as in, per chance of death... so when you say ridiculous, I beg to differ. I would never work in a profession that most don't live a year in for the same wage as a baker. If it were 3 sp a day with a share of treasure, that's a different story, but I would rather pay 100gp a month than a percentage of the most profitable business on earth.

[mendaharin]

Stubs McKenzie wrote:

If you have 3-4 encounters a day, that is still less than a gold per encounter... as in, per chance of death... so when you say ridiculous, I beg to differ. I would never work in a profession that most don't live a year in for the same wage as a baker. If it were 3 sp a day with a share of treasure, that's a different story, but I would rather pay 100gp a month than a percentage of the most profitable business on earth.

Just to be devils advocate here, lets consider real world equivalents. 1gp equals about 1700 dollars. Contractors go over to Iraq and provide security for a year for anywhere from 120k to 250k. These are skilled warriors we can assume with perhaps poor judgement(or good judgement when you compare they're wages to that of a soldier). So let us round down to 1000 dollars per gp, that's still 250 gold for an elite soldier for a year. I know there are alot of different factors that play into this, like with anything. Still there are always going to be skilled people, who will do dangerous work, that others would never considered. A level 5 fighter with un-heroic stats might not storm the dungeon alone. When he isn't the one going first and looks around to see impressive specimens of the species who just need someone to watch they're backs. Well as long as he's being paid well, at least its more interesting than being in a meat-grinding war.

[ZugZug]

When we hire Mercs, you have to visit a "Guildhouse" type establishment and they require a fee paid up front. Basically, if we're going to go "adventuring" we want our pay to go to our families, not be a bunch of empty promises.

Then, we usually have them paid at two different rates. Basically the Book for "base pay" and then a "hazard pay" amount that is quite a bit more. Basically there is a difference between "guarding the base near where our homes are" and "going into goblin lands where we're all likely to die".

We (I at least) do spend the resources (gains from adventuring) improving armor/weapons when possible, which gives them more of a connection to the group. At some point they even get names ;-)