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It's stated that a Monk's unarmed attacks never count as off hand. If so, the Improved and Greater Two Weapon Fighting feats would not, by definition, affect it. So how does a Monk full attack? is it considered that he attacks twice for every BAB number stated? or can he never get the feats, thus having less attack than a TWF Fighter?
I.. am confused with the question.
If your asking can he not gain the two-weapon chain of feats, then no not with just his unarmed attack. He could however use something like a cestus, or a monk weapon too gain them.
Flurry of blows, is to all intents and purposes, two weapon fighting, except without the feats, raises your bab up to your monk level, and counts all attacks as being "main hand", also it doesn't need two different weapons too work. It has the exact same progression otherwise, try comparing a monks attack procedure to a equal level two weapon fighter and you'll see how similar it is.
the monks unarmed strike AB is calculated as if he had a full bab,applying two weapon fighting.
whenever the monks normal bab hits the requirement for the next two weapon fighting feat, it applies to the flurry ab given in the book
I forgot to expound on the situation. Sorry.
Suppose my character is a.... Fighter 18, Monk 2. For a 20th level character, his FoB sucks. So he does a normal Full attack. Is it possible to gain more attacks through the Improved and Greater TWF feats, even though his unarmed attacks are not off-hand?
I would argue not counting as off-handed only means that they don't suffer the penalty (that is, half damage) from making attacks with an off-hand weapon. So, for example, an off-hand kick by a monk wielding a two-handed weapon would still deal full Str damage. Of course, you would still suffer the -2 attack penalty for TWF in this scenario.
I'd base this assessment on the context. The previous sentences talk about using things other than hands, while the next one states you apply your full Str to unarmed strikes. Besides, it would be weird to think that taking a level in a class would make you actively worse at something, especially if that class is monk and that thing is "punching people."
so... what i'm getting at with what you said is that improved and greater twf will work, however the original twf feat will be nullified as a chain to useful feats?
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Note that you don't have to use Flurry every time you full-attack. Maybe your Fighter 18/Monk 2 found a +5 flaming trollbane greatsword and you're fighting a bunch of trolls. You can do an "ordinary" full attack without flurrying (since you can't flurry with a longsword).
You can use the TWF feat (and the rest of its chain) independently of FoB. So if you have a fighter 1/monk 1 with TWF, you could use normal TWF or you could flurry. The advantage of flurry would be higher BAB (2 instead of 1) and full damage on the extra attack, while the advantage of normal TWF is that you could use non-monk weapons and do it while wearing armor. You can't do both at once, but you can do either one for any given full attack.
so... what i'm getting at with what you said is that improved and greater twf will work, however the original twf feat will be nullified as a chain to useful feats?
I'm don't really follow this. Flurry, while working like two-weapon fighting, doesn't actually give you the feat. But I don't know what that is getting at. Anyway, your hypothetical character's attacks would look like this:
A normal, full-attack:
+19/+14/+9/+4
Flurry of blows (unarmed or monk weapon only):
+18/+18/+13/+8/+3
Full-Attack with TWF:
+17/+12/+7/+2 and one off-hand at +17
If you have got Improved TWF, you would get a second off-hand in that last scenario at +12, and a last one at +7 with Greater.
All that the monk ability is doing is making it so that, if those off-hand attacks are unarmed strikes, they deal full Str instead of 1/2 Str as a bonus to damage. You could also argue that Power Attack should apply fully with that attack, though I would expect some resistance on that. You actually could also argue that it just means kicking or elbowing doesn't count as off-hand, but I prefer my interpretation.
Frankly, it is easiest just to ignore the "no off-hand" line. It is an artifact of a different time, like the similar (since removed) references about shield bashes. Maybe it will get FAQ'ed out at some point, but until then, it really just doesn't matter that much.
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a monks unnamed strike never counts as off hand
a monk cant make an off hand attack...
a monk cant twf with a strike
thats so perverse i love it
"At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes."
yeah, i understand what you are saying.
it also has problems if you want to try and take 2WF feats like 2 weapon rend and combine them with Flurry.
honestly, that whole wording is way more confusing than it is helpful.
i would say you are best off ignoring the no off-hand thing, and just using the 'always use full STR for UAS even if off-hand'.
THe ability is supposed to be a bonus, not restrict you from doing anything (even if Flurry isn't compatable with every option)
Either that, or just apply that ruling to Monk Flurrying, i.e. your Fighter18/Monk2 using 2WF and not flurrying would 2WF like anybody else.