Goblin Squad Member
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MMOs have been hailed as THE new play experience a few years ago when WoW had been released and been a smash hit. But now the market has been flooded with a plethora of look alike clones and is in steep decline.
Soo, what are the problems of MMOs today that PFO should strive to overcome and thus create the next milestone in MMO history?
1. The new vs the tried and tested
There have been very few milestones in (western) MMO history. Ultima Online for most of it, Everyquest for raids and instancing, Dark Age of Camelot for Realm vs Realm combat and thats about it.
Back then these games were made by people with a vision but now, that MMOs have become the most expensive way to create a game, all that seems left is to try and mimize risks by producing another WoW clone.
This will not fly any more. Even titanic licensing brands like Star Wars seem unable to create enough buzz when it is obvious that the game will be same old, same old.
So Pathfinder should take the risk and really tread new ways. The market seems ripe for it.
2. I want to have an impact
If you share the world with thousands of other players, how can you have an impact in any way?
This is the crux of MMOs, you can't really influence your world. Pathfinder seems to go in a bold direction here where at least groups of individuals can build something lasting and needed.
3. This is an MMO - as in Massively Multiplayer
One word - instancing and auction houses. Ok, two words. And random group finders - ok, ok, three words...
The modern MMOs try to avoid MM more and more and grow into MSO, as in Multiplayer Solitaire. If you do not want it, you can play the game and never know more than maybe 5 people in it.
What sounds like a cool option is actually crippling to THE one thing the MMOs have before every other game, a community.
An MMO is only a true MMO when it has the guts to support the building of a great community aka realm pride. Even if this comes at the price of not being very solo friendly - which would only fit, because D&D is not very solo friendly either.
4. Time is cash, time is money
A great problem that plagues all existing MMOs - how do you combine players that play 4 hours a week with players that play 12 hours a day in a game where playing time > all?
Want that cool Sword? Well, drop chance is 0.01% and each run takes about 4 hours - unless you wait till next patch when everything is nerfed down and each run takes only 15 minutes, but then the cool Sword is actually weak against the new cool Sword.
Whats epic today is worthless tomorrow and the only challenge is how often someone can stand the ordeal to do the same things over and over and over in the shortest period of time to receive the reward to show off.
This one is hard to solve. Servers, where everything takes much less time but playing excessively is impossible seems a solution.
5. Bring me 5 rat tails
Yeah, it's famous and astounding what people will do to satisfy their sense of archievement.
The basics of each and every MMO today are: go there, kill/find NPC/material x and hope you are lucky and the things you want drop/are created. If not, do it again, and again, and again, and again. End of game.
Pen and paper is (usually) so much richer than that. How do you transport this into an MMO?
Well, instead of fixed quests there could be some sort of scripted events. Maybe even a script module for third party publishers to create "adventures" with. If PFO could make something like this work, it would be a truely unique game.
6. Level > all
You found a guild and some friends to play with - but you are away for three weeks. Alas your friends are all 10th Level while you are Level 5 and thus you can't play with them any more.
Will PFO will be the game where Levels and Equipment doesn't matter that much? Where Level isn't greater all and the "real" game only starts at maximum level leaving the "low level zones" a barren wasteland after a few months?
7. And finally: world (and community) death aka avoid the hype!
Many new MMOs suffer from a very strong start and a fast decline in players. This causes all sorts of problems and the biggest is empty "worlds" that need to be merged with other worlds which in turn creates all kind of imbalances and shatters the very important community on these worlds.
Will PFO be the game that avoids some, most or even all the things that plague MMOs today? Well, we'll probably see in a few years.
Goblinworks Founder
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You pretty much described the way I want to see this game go.
I'm tired of the world of warcraft, rift and everquest model. I yearn for a sandbox MMO that can give me that same sense of adventure that I get with Table top games. A game that isn't 89 levels of content that you will only see once because once you hit 90 you will be doing the same instanced pvp and the same instanced dungeons, never to see the persistent world again.
Here's to the future, whatever it brings.
I don't think you can call a genre which contains the biggest game of all times for "failing". It is way to early.
Personally I think MMO's are just in its infancy and developers have yet to understand the diversity and in-depth MMO's that some people want.
It is not about FAILING for SUCCEEDING. It is about making a hardcore game for some of us. It doesn't have to sell millions of subscriptions...
Nice post OP.
My first comment is on #6.
What I would like to see is where your level, if they go with levels, is based on your combined skills. For example, fighting skills, crafting skills, gathering skills, etc.
Each of the can be broken down into multiple skills. Combined together they make up your level. In this way, you can become a level 100 crafter without ever fighting if you want.
Also, using items would be based on your skill. If you are a level 100 crafter and want to fight that level 50 mob, you will die in an instant because you are a level 1 in fighting.
I wish games would go this route instead. It allows you to create the kind of character you really want, not what the game forces you to make.
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Goblin Squad Member
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"MMO" does not mean "WoW and clones".
True, but you may add "and predecessors" as Meridian59, Asherons Call Everquest and DAoC were of the same Theme Park style and thus the sandbox style could be considered a niche so far, at least for fantasy MMOs.
One of the games I had the highest hopes for was Shadowbane, which was very sandboxy. Alas they never managed to iron out the bugs and quirks in the system that made the game frustrating to play.
So, where is a successful classic fantasy sandbox MMO?
"MMO" does not mean "WoW and clones".True, but you may add "and predecessors" as Meridian59, Asherons Call Everquest and DAoC were of the same Theme Park style and thus the sandbox style could be considered a niche so far, at least for fantasy MMOs.
One of the games I had the highest hopes for was Shadowbane, which was very sandboxy. Alas they never managed to iron out the bugs and quirks in the system that made the game frustrating to play.
So, where is a successful classic fantasy sandbox MMO?
Asheron's Call is the epitome of the skill based level system. It was ok, I believe the company who handled that game was great with doing events that were ever changing. Though ultimately it was simply that - level based. I don't want them to go about that system and I believe most people are afraid of skill based simply because that is what they are most familiar with.
You want a successful classic fantasy sandbox MMO? Ultima Online. It's outdated in graphics and the companies who developed it over time ran it into the ground (particularly at the start of the world split that was in regards to PvP and PvE zones).
But during the 96-98 era prior to that split Ultima Online I still see as the best Sandbox and overall MMO experience even to World of Warcraft. I had fun with both, but UO definitely set a high standard that no other MMOs have been able to properly replicate for community and freedom.
I emphasize in all my posts concerning this MMO is that gear during the 96-98 timeframe was not as panamount to anything else in UO. A store bought item carried you anywhere you needed to go. Players could make masterwork stuff that was a bit better but not world shattering. Then EA came out with the various tiers and mineral types that changed the whole game to something not as fun.
Again, I haven't played EVE so I don't know comparatively what the differences would be as they sound quite similar besides being Sci-fi and fantasy. But there you go, Ultima Online as your fantasy based example.
"MMO" does not mean "WoW and clones".
I couldn't have said it better myself... ;-)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Good thread and OP. Agree with a lot of things said, not so much with MMORPGs being in any kind of decline. The MMORPG industry enjoys both Bioware & Blizzard; the highest number of players ever and the widest range of titles available. I do however agree that MMORPG gaming in terms of quality and integrity is at an all time low.
Goblinworks need to create a world.
- Forget linear paths of progression, forget theme-park and forget raiding. WoW (and soon TOR) have SHUT THIS DOWN.
- Forget green, blue, purple and orange items. See above. We're making an RPG here, not a dungeon crawler.
- Forget instances. The technology to create scripted and immersive PvE content existed before and after instanced content. Look at the open quest content of Rift and Warhammer, with rewards based upon participation and effectiveness. This also relies on:
- Forget open pvp without strong and decisive risk & punishment for PKing. Allowing meaningless player killing at a low level of risk will alienate your playerbase and damage the experience. Mass murderers in real life give up and risk everything, so should virtual ones.
+ Create a world rich in character, identity and authenticity. None combatant roles, trade, crafting, politics; stay true to all elements of gameplay from roleplaying a fisherman to dragon slaying and do not feel the pressure to imitate. These features are what set you apart and define you.
+ Create an authentic fantasy world; place emphasis on player made institutions, content and goals. Unlike developer made content, these are without an end. Lore, world design, open travel and freedom to move between locations without escalation of difficulty between them; such design features are lazy and destroy immersion. A bear outside of a city is no more difficult than the same bear outside of another (Weird point to emphasise, but it ANNOYS me).
+ Simple items, not magical items. Be it looted, crafted or bought, items should deteriorate in time and through use. Everyday gear should be chosen out of preference than that of superiority. Offer a wide range and leave symbols of wealth and status to more cosmetic or strictly material aspects of the game (clothes, housing, mounts).
+ All but stomping out playerkilling to all but the most ruthless PK does not mean no open PvP. Faction warfare/Realm vs Realm/Guild vs Guild; a wealth of opportunities exist to encourage open and free PvP with a defined and accurate purpose. Do NOT use an all purpose PvP switch. It's lazy.
+ Do not give in to market peer pressure. The market is closed for anyone offering anything that already exists. You have a solid and enjoyable P&P system which offers everything that MMORPGs today fail to capture; bring that to internet in the most accurate way possible and we'll pay and play for your game for years to come.
Ultima Online was the last to offer such a world and it still lives today. It obviously fails to stand up to the titans in the genre, but when you contrast it's technical inferiority in almost every aspect, it's comparative success makes it still the best MMORPG to date. You have every opportunity to recreate that magic ten fold, and with the best intellectual property and quality of content that I could have hoped for.
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Goblin Squad Member
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+1 to coldman regarding the + and -, especially instances and authentic world.
But I guess if you will deviate too far from the throdden path of green-blue-purple-orange (gbpo - we might have created a new acronym) the game may not appeal to the large group of archievers out there, at least not initially.
About MMOs being in decline:
I still stand by this. WoW is loosing subscription numbers, SW:TOR is not generating that much of a buzz despite being hailed as THE new mega-MMO. Rifts and AION, the two big starters of the last few months are already peaked (AION even only has a fraction of the original numbers left).
Apart from WoW, which MMO is still going strong in Europe and the US?
The reason, imho, is that new MMOs are simply not any good. AION had a lot of promise but ultimately disappointed on various levels, same with Rifts. The industry still tries to out-WoW WoW and fails.
Content and depth of the game are king, which works directly against production costs and subscriptions. You also have concepts like pvp and market place that can really work against the casual player, but at the same time you need to consider the players that like these items to strike a balance. I would not throw the concept of instances out entirely, as I long for the days of EQ when they had a mix of fixed environments, but also random dungeons similar to diablo, where each time you entered one it would randomly re-arrange itself, but the players collected items to further their characters progression.
I am not conviced player driven content is the answer, in regards to pvp, market, or kingdom building, especially it is a mechanism to keep production costs down. My reason to play on onlime game is to escape, explore, and have fun with fellow players, versus repeating repetive tasks like quests, pvp, or kingdom building.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I still stand by this. WoW is loosing subscription numbers, SW:TOR is not generating that much of a buzz despite being hailed as THE new mega-MMO. Rifts and AION, the two big starters of the last few months are already peaked (AION even only has a fraction of the original numbers left).
It's not as such a debate as to whether or not the industry is experiencing a decline, more that of relative decline. World of Warcraft is experiencing a steady decline, but equally it expanded the consumer base for the MMORPG market far beyond anyone's wildest expectations. The fact remains that if World of Warcraft never had 90% of it's players, it would still mark a massive success.
I'd agree that we are beginning to see the boom/bust of the themepark MMORPG as new players of MMORPGs are beginning to realise that World of Warcraft simply perfected a dated system of gameplay. But as par the point I'm trying to make, World of Warcraft is a unique phenomena, and its players are also unique to that of other MMORPG gamers to such a degree that its difficult to prescribe WoW as existing firmly in what was originally the MMORPG genre.
Apart from WoW, which MMO is still going strong in Europe and the US?
World of Warcraft brought a whole new dynamic to the industry and I think you need to employ a degree of stratification in gauging relative success of titles within WoW's shadow. What we are experiencing now, in my eyes, is the natural downfall and decline of World of Warcraft's surplus of success. The Old Republic is going to claim a great deal of the fallout from this process but is not offering anything to anybody; the WoW dream has come and gone and it's not coming back. It was as much a phenomenon of gaming culture and markets than of game development and for this reason I'd include TOR's capitalization on this same product as including them in being part of this phenomenon.
Putting all that in perspective, the under performance of near all MMORPG releases from the release of World of Warcraft speak more of WoW's performance than their own failings. The original MMORPG games suffered from a massive lack of resources in the face of today's giants, as do the current crop of independent developers. You also have to account to the fact that, as per the motives of business, a number of products have obviously been influenced by game design of the market giant and this in itself, if perhaps using a very broad brush, has been more harmful to the industry than anything else.
I think what we really need to define is, will Pathfinder Online belong to the old crop of backwards but innovative MMORPGs or the new monsters? Only the budget can answer that question. Capital allows SWTOR to employ a number of tried and tested methods and challenge at the height of the industry, and by all account they are going to make a lot of money regardless of if they topple the dictator. Part of me prays that Goblinworks never experiences such a wealth of resources or the potential negative effects that can bring, but I guess this ramble has to end at some point so I'm going to leave it at that :D
"MMO" does not mean "WoW and clones".
Probably not, but for those with minimum exposure to the MMO culture, WoW is THE MMO, and all MMOs are clones of the former.
If Pathfinder Online stands out from often imitated World of Warcraft, that'd be a major selling point for me.
'findel
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Goblin Squad Member
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About MMOs being in decline:I still stand by this.
Well you're demonstrably wrong.
The MMO market in the West is growing at a compound annual growth rate of 12.8%.
What you're not seeing are the millions of younger kids who are playing games like Club Penguin, Free Realms, Wizard101, Runescape, etc. who don't overlap with your social circles and which don't target you for advertising.
If anything there's been a renaissance of late even in the theme park subscription MMO business. Of course Rift peaked and then dropped - that's what subscription-based theme park MMOs do. On the other hand, if you combine the market for Conan, Warhammer, AION, RIFT, Lord of the Rings and EVE together plus World of Warcraft, you get an audience number bigger than ever.
And on top of that you have to calculate things like Facebook games, Modern Warfare Elite, and other non-traditional forms of microtransaction enabled multiplayer games - games that appeal to a lot of crossover audience from the PC 3D MMO adventure market.
Just because you see themepark games doing what themepark games always do (peak and then decline) doesn't mean anything about the overall health and growth of the segment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...will Pathfinder Online belong to the old crop of backwards but innovative MMORPGs or the new monsters?
While I agree with a lot of what you say I have a hard time understanding you here. Backwards seems to rule out innovative?
...Only the budget can answer that question.
While its true that MMOs are among the most expensive games to produce I think innovation and success is not necessarily a function of budget. Look at Minecraft for instance.
What you're not seeing are the millions of younger kids who are playing games like Club Penguin...
Right, that might be a big market, but it still seems somewhat detached from the "classic big MMO" market that I guess PFO will aim to be part of.
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Goblinworks Founder
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What you're not seeing are the millions of younger kids who are playing games like Club Penguin...Right, that might be a big market, but it still seems somewhat detached from the "classic big MMO" market that I guess PFO will aim to be part of.
I think you misunderstand what Ryan is pointing out here.
That market of younger kids playing freerealms, hello kitty online and runescape are going to be young adults by the time PFO launches. Meaning they are undoubtedly going to be a major target of marketing.You do not succeed by keeping the old grumpy people happy because their numbers will dwindle over time. By targeting each successive generation you retain some of the old but gain much of the new. This is a similar strategy that was used for 3e D&D marketing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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SW:TOR is not generating that much of a buzz despite being hailed as THE new mega-MMO.
This is one of the most crazy-town things I've seen in a long while. The Old Republic utterly shattered EA's pre-order records, and reservations are now well into the hundreds of thousands range. Their beta weekends have been ridiculously well-attended, including the weekend that Skyrim was released.
Where did you even come up with this notion?
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Goblin Squad Member
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SW:TOR is not generating that much of a buzz despite being hailed as THE new mega-MMO.This is one of the most crazy-town things I've seen in a long while. The Old Republic utterly shattered EA's pre-order records, and reservations are now well into the hundreds of thousands range. Their beta weekends have been ridiculously well-attended, including the weekend that Skyrim was released.
Where did you even come up with this notion?
I can attest to this. My first beta weekend was Skyrim release weekend and I waited over three hours in queue to get into the game. This weekend there have been queues of 8+ hours to get into the game. Will it be a "WoW killer?" Nobody can tell the future, but it's a solid bet that even if it never sees half of WoW's [questionable] clientele, it will still be a success as a product.
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Goblin Squad Member
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SW:TOR is not generating that much of a buzz despite being hailed as THE new mega-MMO.This is one of the most crazy-town things I've seen in a long while. The Old Republic utterly shattered EA's pre-order records, and reservations are now well into the hundreds of thousands range. Their beta weekends have been ridiculously well-attended, including the weekend that Skyrim was released.
Where did you even come up with this notion?
I think MicMan's point can be summarised as follows:
There was a post on MMORPG.com which was well titled 'SWTOR: Its not you, it's me'.
I've personally never been more disappointed in a game, yet there's nothing wrong with the game. I just hoped it would do more than the developers themselves said they were going to do(?). Hype does crazy things to us.
It's wrong to say that it's not generating that much buzz, it's shaking the MMO world right now. The reason why it feels like it's not hitting the heights we expect is simply because it didn't bring Elvis back to life like most people expect...
...and because some of us have read all the bad reviews.
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Goblinworks Founder
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Indeed, I've been in two of the starwars beta's now and the most recent thanks giving weekend beta I hardly even played.
Before getting my first beta I was only half interested in the game to be honest, I was never a huge fan of the old republic timeline and I also felt the game was setting itself up for failure by over hyping.
I wasn't even intending to buy the game, I was going to wait for the first month or two and then see how it went. Then I got my first beta invite.
I preordered the game before my first beta weekend was finished. I was pleasantly surprised and felt it was worth the purchase, but I still didn't think it was gods gift to MMO's like all the "WoW-Killa" kids were wetting themselves about.
This most recent weekend though, I once again had to level from 1-20 and it really got me thinking... I've played the same class twice now in beta because it's my preferred style of class, I don't think I can go through it a third time. Yes, the voice acting is great, but I can get that from Mass Effect. Yes the game is Star Wars, but it's not the Star Wars I grew up on. Yes the game play is relatively fun, but its just the same as any new game. I haven't cancelled my preorder and I will definitely play through each class when the game launches, but I doubt I will even bother with the PvP or PvE grind outside of the story.
Yes they shattered pre-order records and they will definitely have a solid fanbase to keep them going. Whether they can actually turn a profit after spending so much money on production is yet to be seen. The other thing that I think they will find challenging is adding more content of the same quality. Are they going to bring in enough revenue to be able to hire good quality voice actors and writers to produce regular content updates? I'm skeptical.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think you misunderstand what Ryan is pointing out here.
That market of younger kids playing freerealms, hello kitty online and runescape are going to be young adults by the time PFO launches. Meaning they are undoubtedly going to be a major target of marketing.You do not succeed by keeping the old grumpy people happy...
Yes, indeed, that might be the case, but the step is pretty big from these more or less easy carefree games to a fully fledged MMO.
But indeed the success of an MMO relies on how much it is able to generate new customers.
About SW:TOR-------------------------------------------------------
Warhammer Online shattered preoder records.
But if you read the boards of actual beta testers (as opposed to the fanboys/girls posting glowing reviews) you saw that this game would have problems.
8 months later it was pretty much dead.
SW:TOR is certainly a better game than Warhammer was and will likely last longer on the license alone.
BUT, it is NOT receiving much buzz from the testers. Comments range from "solidly done" to "same old" and I somehow miss the "innovative", "really fesh" or "brings entirely new mechanics to MMOs" reviews that tell me that this game is here to last longer than until WoW releases its next expansion.
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Goblinworks Founder
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About SW:TOR-------------------------------------------------------
Warhammer Online shattered preoder records.But if you read the boards of actual beta testers (as opposed to the fanboys/girls posting glowing reviews) you saw that this game would have problems.
8 months later it was pretty much dead.
SW:TOR is certainly a better game than Warhammer was and will likely last longer on the license alone.
BUT, it is NOT receiving much buzz from the testers. Comments range from "solidly done" to "same old" and I somehow miss the "innovative", "really fesh" or "brings entirely new mechanics to MMOs" reviews that tell me that this game is here to last longer than until WoW releases its next expansion.
I was a closed beta tester for Warhammer Age of Reckoning and did three beta weekends with Star Wars. I can vouch for what you are saying in that feedback was/is very mixed. I can't talk about WAR because I'm still under NDA from what I tested, but I can say that I wasn't that impressed with Star Wars.
It is a solid themepark MMO, it's not the Star Wars that I grew up with though.
I was disappointed in the choice of playable Aliens.
I was disappointed in the replay value.
I was disappointed in how linear the levelling progression was.
I was impressed with the class design (knowing that it was merely an EQ/WoW copy)
I was impressed with the majority of quests.
I was impressed with the graphics (that's without the full textures)
I was impressed with what they offered for instanced PvP and the class abilities that would work in PvP. Taunt a player and they do 30% less damage until they attack you (Copied from WAR Online).
I have preordered the game but I doubt it will keep me enthralled for a subscription after the free 30 days.
My main decision for this was when I had to level my chosen class the second time around. The game is only good for one play through on each class and I do not see the 16 man raid content holding my attention like other games have.
Removed some posts and replies—keep it civil, flag it and move on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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keep it civil
Thanks, and right you are (as always :)
I must say I was excited to read the Blog of RD HERE.
Limiting the number of players at start and letting the game start early with less content seems to be the way to go to prevent many problems that plague classic MMOs today. Namely the huge bust in the first few months with a dying out of servers and community afterwards.
Of course there are yells like "they want us to pay for an unfinished game!!11!" but I am not seeing it as this.
A game like PFO will never really be finished so all I ask is that the basic functions are in place. Again, look at the history of Minecraft (where thousands of players happily played and payed for an Alpha version and loved it) to see that this is a good thing more than a bad thing.
About missing out on the game during the first few months if you are not preodering early - well, I guess this won't be that much of a big thing in a game where there is NOT Level > all.
I, at least, value an organic growth of the community and a stable launch more highly than being able to play at the very earliest opportunity - which I can even have if I really want to.
So I like wher this seems to be going.
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FYI the MMO-genre is actually not failing. It is actually growing.
The only thing that one could complain about is how dumbed down and stereotype the productions have become. For some stupid reason they keep selling as well.
Personally I am hoping for more "indie" kind of MMO's. I mean look at Bioware. They are super talented. They spent a heck-load of money...and lets what they've got...a total, yepp you know what, total stereotype MMO (or WoW-clone if you will).
And its selling. Probably going to make their budget....cause after all that is all they care about at this point.
I think we need something truly new...and the innovation can only come from a high-risk project....the cost doesn't have to be what you mentioned. It can be even lower.
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Goblinworks Founder
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FYI the MMO-genre is actually not failing. It is actually growing.
The only thing that one could complain about is how dumbed down and stereotype the productions have become. For some stupid reason they keep selling as well.
Personally I am hoping for more "indie" kind of MMO's. I mean look at Bioware. They are super talented. They spent a heck-load of money...and lets what they've got...a total, yepp you know what, total stereotype MMO (or WoW-clone if you will).
And its selling. Probably going to make their budget....cause after all that is all they care about at this point.
I think we need something truly new...and the innovation can only come from a high-risk project....the cost doesn't have to be what you mentioned. It can be even lower.
+1
I've been spending more time playing Indie games these days than I do on so called Triple A titles. Not just MMO's but Single player games as well. Big brand productions like EA and Activision have stagnated PC gaming these past few years in much the same way that Hollywood has sucked the life out of the film industry. We are in dire need of innovative designs that push the gaming industry into a new age.
Arena.net are leading the charge right now, and I hope Goblinworks can follow up with something more.
The only thing Arena.net is in charge of is making a poor mans WoW-clone...
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Goblin Squad Member
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LOL it's nothing like WoW.
No, but the prerelease hype is going to cause far more of an OMGquake than the game itself will.
It is Guild Wars + fluff + underwater fail.
When will we ever be given a quality conventional MMORPG. Whoever thought the genre needed quality underwater combat had a screw loose.
♠ Join the Pathfinder Online community in IRC | Server: irc.stratics.com (6667) Channel: #pfo | We'll see you there! ♠
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wouldn't say the MMO industry is in decline; much on the contrary, if we follow the Life Cycle of Products model, it is clearly in the Growth Stage, which is characterized by an explosion in the number of competitors, a huge increase in sales and an expansion of the market, as the entry barriers come down and the capacity to create similar products becomes widespread.
Precisely what we are seeing today.
In my opinion, what we are seeing now is simply the pressure caused by the huge influx of new players into a market that, prior to WoW's entrance, was pretty small and easy to characterize. Game studios and designers are still adapting to a new reality composed of very different shades of players, whereas back in the later 90's-early 2000's those of us who played could be easily classified in a few major groups that didn't differ much in terms of needs and wants.
The MMO market still has some road to travel before it enters the Maturity Stage. And only once it gets there we will see whether it enters a virtuous cycle of renewing ideas (the ideal case), or a vicious one of diminishing returns in quality/income.
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Goblinworks Founder
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You pretty much described the way I want to see this game go.
I'm tired of the world of warcraft, rift and everquest model. I yearn for a sandbox MMO that can give me that same sense of adventure that I get with Table top games. A game that isn't 89 levels of content that you will only see once because once you hit 90 you will be doing the same instanced pvp and the same instanced dungeons, never to see the persistent world again.
Here's to the future, whatever it brings.
I think it is a mistake to lump EQ and WoW together. Original EQ had a far different model from WoW's rush to the endgame.
Leveling mattered - dungeon's weren't instanced. It took time to get to 20 and 30 and 40 and etc. That was months and months of content - far different from where we are now with WoW where the only game is the endgame.
Rift is merely an evolution of WoWs template which is merely an evolution of EQ's template. I understand that they are different, but I also see that their game template is the same DikuMUD template that has evolved over generations. When WoW first came out it still took a good four months to reach level cap. The time to cap has been reduced ever since though.