i said that in kinda a b%@+ h$!~ way that was not intended sorry
No worries. Those slots are accounted for:
1 Point Blank Shot, Iron Will, Rapid Shot (noncombatant)
2 Preserve Organs
3 Greater Iron Will
4 Smoke Bomb
5 ED: Frost Bomb
6 Tentacle
7 ED: Dispelling Bomb
8 Fast Bombs
9 ED: Combine Extracts
10 Mummification
11 ED: Alchemical Zombie
12 Greater Cognatogen
13 ED: Alchemical Simulacrum
14 Poison Bomb
15 ED: Doppelganger Simulacrum
Confusion Bomb should probably be in your line-up (min level 8). There is no save against this. If you get a direct hit with your touch attack, it's 1 round/level. Parasitic Twin would also be very useful, but it (unfortunately) takes up 3 Discoveries.
Confusion Bomb should probably be in your line-up (min level 8). There is no save against this. If you get a direct hit with your touch attack, it's 1 round/level. Parasitic Twin would also be very useful, but it (unfortunately) takes up 3 Discoveries.
No save? Why not? "Under the effect of a confusion spell". That spell allows a save, yes? And even if he fails that save, he still has a 50% chance to act normally or attack the nearest creature (me).
No save? Why not? "Under the effect of a confusion spell". That spell allows a save, yes? And even if he fails that save, he still has a 50% chance to act normally or attack the nearest creature (me).Confusion Bomb should probably be in your line-up (min level 8). There is no save against this. If you get a direct hit with your touch attack, it's 1 round/level. Parasitic Twin would also be very useful, but it (unfortunately) takes up 3 Discoveries.
Because it puts you under the effects, as opposed to save or suffer these effects. Yeah he's got a 50/50 chance to act normally but that's still a 50% chance to not act too.
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I think you shouldn´t be too worried about this there is an old thread where a guy tried something similar with wizard versus fighter.The post where really the same there in terms of "you can´t win",and in the end the fighter guy trounced the wizard 5:0. Here´s the link to the thread by the way. Good luck
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/dnd/helpNeedIdeasForA WizardKiller
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Now for sure. Stupid autospacer.
Linked so it works
Nnnnnnnnope.
Sorry but just "stupid autospace" and it works:)
My creation continues to grow.
So -
Mister E
Level 15 Lawful Evil Human Mindchemist
Str 7 (-2)/5 (-3)
Dex 16 (+3)/14 (+2)
Con 14 (+2)
Int 22 (+6)/28(+9)
Wis 14 (+2)
Cha 7 (-2)
Fortitude 16
Reflex 17/16
Will 14/16
Tome of Clear Thought +1 27.5K
Manual of Quickness in Action +1 27.5K
Ring of Spell Turning 100K
Ring of Delayed Doom x2 10K
Ring of Evasion 25K
Cloak of Resistance +5 25K
Cloak of Resistance +5 25K
Bomb Damage: 8d6+6/+9
1 Point Blank Shot, Iron Will, Improved Initiative (noncombatant)
2 Preserve Organs
3 Greater Iron Will
4 Smoke Bomb
5 ED: Frost Bomb
6 Dispelling Bomb
7 Rapid Shot
8 Fast Bombs
9 ED: Combine Extracts
10 Mummification
11 ED: Alchemical Simulacrum
12 Greater Cognatogen
13 ED: Greater Alchemical Simulacrum
14 Poison Bomb
15 ED: Doppelganger Simulacrum
Extracts (Greater Cognatogen'd)
5: Resurgent Transformation, Spell Resistance, Magic Jar, Overland Flight, Displacement/Haste
4: Fox Cunning/Cat's Grace, Detonate, Echolocation, Death Ward, Chill Shield, Restoration
3: Reduce Person/ Bomber's Eye, Amplify Elixir, Longshot/True Strike, Vomit Swarm, Nondetection, Cure Serious, Displacement, Haste.
2: See Invisibility, Barkskin, Cure Moderate x2, Lesser Restoration, Invisibility
1: Ant Haul, 7 Others
Brute Force method. Mucho Deniro is sunk into creating at least 2 clones and a whole bunch of greater simulacra fashioned into 6th level Mister E Duplicates equipped with Dispelling Bombs. They are outfitted to look exactly like Mister E, with cheap brass rings made to look like his magic ring(s). They pummel him with dispelling bombs while Mister E zaps him with a Wand of Dimensional Anchor. (While he weaves in and out of the crowd of Mister E). After a round or two they start pummeling him with alternating Frost and Fire bombs, and Mister E unleashes Cloudkill bombs (8d6+9 per bomb plus Con Damage).
So... you're the wizard. What is in your contingency to prevent this? How do you destroy this opposition?
Looks good,
Simulacrum might be considered pre-buffing though,and what does "a bunch" mean exactly.If there really are a lot of them iI would probably cast Prismatic Wall an then True Seeing , then Save or Die the Original.
Looks good,
Simulacrum might be considered pre-buffing though,and what does "a bunch" mean exactly.If there really are a lot of them iI would probably cast Prismatic Wall an then True Seeing , then Save or Die the Original.
Except "the original" is a doppelganger; wouldn't that look like just another Simulacra, since it IS a doppelganger simulacra?
So... you're the wizard. What is in your contingency to prevent this? How do you destroy this opposition?
Teleport away. Scry and use divinations (limited wish if necessary) to find the real you. Buff, teleport back, kill.
Except "the original" is a doppelganger; wouldn't that look like just another Simulacra, since it IS a doppelganger simulacra?Looks good,
Simulacrum might be considered pre-buffing though,and what does "a bunch" mean exactly.If there really are a lot of them iI would probably cast Prismatic Wall an then True Seeing , then Save or Die the Original.
Wait does that mean you´re having a Duell and the "real you" doesn´t even show up?
So... you're the wizard. What is in your contingency to prevent this? How do you destroy this opposition?Teleport away. Scry and use divinations (limited wish if necessary) to find the real you. Buff, teleport back, kill.
Wand of Dimensional Anchor. Nondetection (on the real one), DC 30.
If I've had time to pre-buff, so has he, so I guess I can expect at least a displacement spell (or cloak), which will make it harder to hit him with a ray. True Seeing is a level 6 Extract, which I won't have access to. So, how do we get around displacement?
So... you're the wizard. What is in your contingency to prevent this? How do you destroy this opposition?Teleport away. Scry and use divinations (limited wish if necessary) to find the real you. Buff, teleport back, kill.Wand of Dimensional Anchor. Nondetection (on the real one), DC 30.
If I've had time to pre-buff, so has he, so I guess I can expect at least a displacement spell (or cloak), which will make it harder to hit him with a ray. True Seeing is a level 6 Extract, which I won't have access to. So, how do we get around displacement?
Gem of Seeing is the first one I'm seeing. But reeeallly expensive. Is there any other way?
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Again and again and again:
ECHOLOCATION!
"Ooh look at me I have BLINDSIGHT!"
Granted it's only 40 feet... but stay under 40 feet away and that's not an issue now is it?
This also works with your cloud bombs since you don't need line of sight, only line of effect.
It's transmutation so mind blank isn't going to help, it's not sight dependent so you get around all the illusions, and it's full on targeting so there isn't a miss chance.
The echolocation extract handles almost all of your needs.
Again and again and again:
ECHOLOCATION!
"Ooh look at me I have BLINDSIGHT!"
Granted it's only 40 feet... but stay under 40 feet away and that's not an issue now is it?
This also works with your cloud bombs since you don't need line of sight, only line of effect.
It's transmutation so mind blank isn't going to help, it's not sight dependent so you get around all the illusions, and it's full on targeting so there isn't a miss chance.
The echolocation extract handles almost all of your needs.
Umm.
Really? Echolocation gets around Displacement?
(Mister E slowly smiles).
EDIT: GASP! YOU'RE RIGHT!
Quick question: Freedom of Movement vs. Reverse Gravity - Who wins?
Echolocation does because displacement is completely sight dependent -- just close your eyes Luke! Let Go!
Why does it matter? You'll have a fly speed, reverse gravity is something you want him to do because it's a waste of an action.
In fact I would walk into the arena simply to hope to provoke him into looking so dumb.
Echolocation does because displacement is completely sight dependent -- just close your eyes Luke! Let Go!
Why does it matter? You'll have a fly speed, reverse gravity is something you want him to do because it's a waste of an action.
In fact I would walk into the arena simply to hope to provoke him into looking so dumb.
Because it dumps my minions and reveals the real me, and hiding in the crowd is becoming the cornerstone of my entire strategy.
Echolocation does because displacement is completely sight dependent -- just close your eyes Luke! Let Go!
Why does it matter? You'll have a fly speed, reverse gravity is something you want him to do because it's a waste of an action.
In fact I would walk into the arena simply to hope to provoke him into looking so dumb.
Because it dumps my minions and reveals the real me, and hiding in the crowd is becoming the cornerstone of my entire strategy.
I don't think you are approaching this very well.
Your minions should have fly up -- they will have third level slots and can swig their own extract of fly before you approach.
Actually I would swig one too if I were you, gives you a fall back and better speed so if he attempts to dispel your overland flight you have the better fly speed and maneuverability to go with -- in fact after you take off I would use the fly spell over the overland flight so he attempts to dispel the fly spell leaving your overland flight intact while wasting another of his actions and spells.
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If I was a wizard, knowing I would be fighting an alchemist, what would I do...
1) buff/enhance my touch AC (vs bombs)
2) buff/enhance resistances vs fire/cold/acid/sonic (kind of screwed on force)
3) what can I do that the alchemist cannot... metamagic... specifically quicken spell (also purchase rods of metamagic)
4) prepare a number of save or die spells based on Will Saves (the alchemist's weakest save)
5) read the message boards to see if there are ideas out there that I haven't thought about... in other words know what ideas an alchemist might have to screw me up [take it as a given that all your suggestions here are being processed by the wizard]
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If I was an alchemist knowing that I was going after a wizard, I would:
1) pick bomb discoveries that would hit on a wizard's weaknesses (such as causing Wisdom damage, deafening or causing Con damage) [Madness, Concussive, Poison)
2) Sticky Bombs are useful for some follow on damage
3) Healing, while the wizard is most likely going to use save or die, he might try and just kill me outright... Spontaneous Healing/Healing Touch let me have 35/75hp of healing (5hp blocks as a free action)
4) Admixtures let me change up some of my bomb effects
5) Mutagenic Touch + Greater Mutagen (boosting Str/Dex) is a nice way to deliver 4 pts of Int/Wis damage... No Save! (Infuse Mutagen would be useful thing to have in this case)
6) Poisons... you are immune... take one, or several as 'extra' fun for the battle... especially things that have high DCs
7) Contagion... give him a disease of your choice... or hit him with several diseases with fast bombs
8) Bombs are your friends... 1/2 Orc w/ favored bonus +bomb damage, extra bombs useful because you will go thru a lot (rapid fire, fast bombs, haste), crank your dex/modifiers to hit ranged touch
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Oh, last point, double check all your assumptions by reading the errata/FAQ in case stuff has been 'fixed' (ie no saves, etc)
And one other final point, is that you won't be able to do it all... pick one or two of the ideas you like and focus on them (just don't repost your idea to this board until after you have beaten that wizard down! :)
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If you have time to buff up before combat, you could buy 2-4 scrolls of antimagic field (you have to buy more than one scroll in case you roll a natural 1 on the UMD check to activate the first).
Since the UMD DC to activate the scroll is 31, you will probably need skill focus (UMD) and perhaps magical knack too, i'm quite sure they stack.
If you succeed you will have lost most of your alchemist abilities, but on the other hand the wizard won't be able to cast any spells at you either thus rendering most of his spells useless.
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Oh, one other thing I would get clarified by the ref... is what things count as prep time (ie simulacrum, clone, etc).
And what are you allowed to bring into the 'arena'.
It matters in that there is no point taking certain discoveries if you can't make use of them. (personally as a ref I would allow you all sorts of prep time, but a duel to me is two men enter, one man leaves... no you can't take your 'triplicate brothers' your pet fido the iron golem, etc) [unless of course you plan on cheating by stuffing your 'extras' in a bag of holding or something]
Also you need to confirm rules about the arena... does teleporting out count as conceeding the match (what if the wizard teleports you out)...
If you can teleport out for healing, buffing, etc, can you bring back help (aka the iron golem).
Just a thought or two.
Personally as the wizard i would play diviner as stated, i'd open up by winning initiative and then my first action would be to maze you, given a decent int score on an alchemist i can get between 2-4 rounds of casting before you get out, works just like timestop for an 8th level slot.
Then depending on my prefered method of killing you i would either drop a few summoned monsters, wind up a big persistanted save or die (i'd use trap the soul so clone can suck the big one as well).
As a diviner i'd have a MoP up to start with, quickened shield ready for your touch attacks and a daily mage armour up and running, i'd have quickened resist energy to deal with your bombs and since its a one off and component costs barely matter i'd probably be using stone skin to counter a melee build. I'd have a few teleportation spells memorised incase things go badly and if possible i'd probably be casting through a projected image the first time you meet me.
Give time and resources i'd do something dirty with planar boumd 18hd outsiders or i'd craft some simulacra to fight for me. I'd also be running the repeated clone trick and have a scroll of restoration handy to remove the negative levels.
Honestly i cannot see anything you can do against a metamagic rod persistanted trap the soul with sf conj and greater sf conj, dc 30+ reroll if pass save or die no tag backs get in my gem is going to be harsh. Really high spell resistance maybe but even then theres ways around it, and that without really toching on gear.
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Honestly i cannot see anything you can do against a metamagic rod persistanted trap the soul with sf conj and greater sf conj, dc 30+ reroll if pass save or die no tag backs get in my gem is going to be harsh. Really high spell resistance maybe but even then theres ways around it, and that without really toching on gear.
Ring of Spell Turning... the wizard then has to make the DC 30+ save twice or be screwed by his own spell.
I would say that the Ring of Spell Turning is almost an absolute must for the alchemist.
Honestly i cannot see anything you can do against a metamagic rod persistanted trap the soul with sf conj and greater sf conj, dc 30+ reroll if pass save or die no tag backs get in my gem is going to be harsh. Really high spell resistance maybe but even then theres ways around it, and that without really toching on gear.Ring of Spell Turning... the wizard then has to make the DC 30+ save twice or be screwed by his own spell.
I would say that the Ring of Spell Turning is almost an absolute must for the alchemist.
ring of spell turning takes an action to use, also if its already up then it would appear on the list of magic auras that the wizard auto passes his skill rolls to identify when he first looks at the alchemist with arcane sight. It is a good plan, rings of spell turning are potent items. I'd be more tempted by a ring of counterspells though, its harder to identify and counter with the ever present arcane sight that all wizards have permenancied at level 11.
If your opponent doesn't check first though that might be your best bet, i think he would probably cry foul if the ref didn't give him a list of identified basic defensive magic on the alch from his arcane sight though. Also the rings not garuanteed it has a 25% chance of not working.
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Just a thought with respect to the bombs...
Lvl 15 Alchemist BAB +11/+6/+1
Fast Bombs, Haste, Rapid Shot = +10/+10/+10/+5/+0
You start with 15 bombs + Int mod... you could run out of bombs very quickly (like in about 4 rounds).
Make sure you have a backup plan for when you run out of bombs (ranged & melee attacks).
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Honestly i cannot see anything you can do against a metamagic rod persistanted trap the soul with sf conj and greater sf conj, dc 30+ reroll if pass save or die no tag backs get in my gem is going to be harsh. Really high spell resistance maybe but even then theres ways around it, and that without really toching on gear.Ring of Spell Turning... the wizard then has to make the DC 30+ save twice or be screwed by his own spell.
I would say that the Ring of Spell Turning is almost an absolute must for the alchemist.
ring of spell turning takes an action to use, also if its already up then it would appear on the list of magic auras that the wizard auto passes his skill rolls to identify when he first looks at the alchemist with arcane sight. It is a good plan, rings of spell turning are potent items. I'd be more tempted by a ring of counterspells though, its harder to identify and counter with the ever present arcane sight that all wizards have permenancied at level 11.
If your opponent doesn't check first though that might be your best bet, i think he would probably cry foul if the ref didn't give him a list of identified basic defensive magic on the alch from his arcane sight though. Also the rings not garuanteed it has a 25% chance of not working.
Where does it state ther is a 25% chance of not working?
From the Core Book:Ring of Spell Turning: Up to 3 times per day on command, this simple platinum band automatically reflects the next 9 levels of spells cast at the wearer, exactly as if spell turning had been cast upon him.
As a caster lvl 13 item the duration is 130minutes.
Honestly i cannot see anything you can do against a metamagic rod persistanted trap the soul with sf conj and greater sf conj, dc 30+ reroll if pass save or die no tag backs get in my gem is going to be harsh. Really high spell resistance maybe but even then theres ways around it, and that without really toching on gear.Ring of Spell Turning... the wizard then has to make the DC 30+ save twice or be screwed by his own spell.
I would say that the Ring of Spell Turning is almost an absolute must for the alchemist.
ring of spell turning takes an action to use, also if its already up then it would appear on the list of magic auras that the wizard auto passes his skill rolls to identify when he first looks at the alchemist with arcane sight. It is a good plan, rings of spell turning are potent items. I'd be more tempted by a ring of counterspells though, its harder to identify and counter with the ever present arcane sight that all wizards have permenancied at level 11.
If your opponent doesn't check first though that might be your best bet, i think he would probably cry foul if the ref didn't give him a list of identified basic defensive magic on the alch from his arcane sight though. Also the rings not garuanteed it has a 25% chance of not working.
Ring of Spell Turning is activated by a command word, yes? Not a standard action.
We'll be getting d4+1 rounds to buff before entering the battlefield. Roll for random terrain, roll for placement of each other.
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Ring of Spell Turning is activated by a command word, yes? Not a standard action.
We'll be getting d4+1 rounds to buff before entering the battlefield. Roll for random terrain, roll for placement of each other.
Core pg 458
Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Spell turning reflects d4+6 levels of spells which is rolled secretly by the ref, if he rolls a 1 its only seven levels of spells, since we're slinging 8th level spells for max saves it just burns through. 1 out of 4 is 25%.
Spell turnings text not the rings.
A mage's weakness is Melee. If you make a melee monster alchemist and manage to close with the mage you stand a decent chance of tearing his head off. Just saying.
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Spell turning reflects d4+6 levels of spells which is rolled secretly by the ref, if he rolls a 1 its only seven levels of spells, since we're slinging 8th level spells for max saves it just burns through. 1 out of 4 is 25%.
Spell turnings text not the rings.
Yes, but the ring specifically states that it turns 9 spell levels per use. Thus there is no 25% chance of failure as it were.
And yes, I did read the spell description as well. :)
Spell turning reflects d4+6 levels of spells which is rolled secretly by the ref, if he rolls a 1 its only seven levels of spells, since we're slinging 8th level spells for max saves it just burns through. 1 out of 4 is 25%.
Spell turnings text not the rings.
Yes, but the ring specifically states that it turns 9 spell levels per use. Thus there is no 25% chance of failure as it were.
And yes, I did read the spell description as well. :)
I have to agree. Whereas the spell speaks of 7-10 levels, the item makes no mention of it. As I see it, you give up the chance of that tenth level for a guaranteed nine (and pay a hefty price for it).
Another problem Saerdna:
As a player of spell casters the spell delay poison is almost always on my daily buffing list.
Wizards and Sorcerers don´t have Delay Poison on their Spelllist.
Wizards and Sorcerers don´t have Delay Poison on their Spelllist.
That's not stopped me before, and if you are burning a bomb and time for taking it off then that's just that much more going for me.
Well, I don´t think giving the Wizards endless time to pre-buff is a good idea at all, his possibilities with that are just infinite.
Better to keep the rules simple one on one ,stand and fight, no leaving the battlefield.Besides even if you allow pre-buffing showing up with who knows how many simulacrae while your real you is hiding out in the back might very well be considered cheating, especially because that would not be so much a win for the skillsof the alchemist as for an inventive strategy.
Well, I don´t think giving the Wizards endless time to pre-buff is a good idea at all, his possibilities with that are just infinite.
Better to keep the rules simple one on one ,stand and fight, no leaving the battlefield.Besides even if you allow pre-buffing showing up with who knows how many simulacrae while your real you is hiding out in the back might very well be considered cheating, especially because that would not be so much a win for the skillsof the alchemist as for an inventive strategy.
Is it cheating for the wizard to use a wish spell, or show up with a golem if he's invested the proper feats and gold?
Poison: DM knows I love to use it, which is by he'll have a periapt of proof against it. Since I'll be chucking dispelling bombs, I'm toying with the idea of arming a few sims with poisoned crossbow bolts.
The implication would be that one of the Alchemists minions would throw it (at such a low casterlevel there is a very good chance it would be among the first things to drop). However, arguing about consumables might be moot anyway since the wizard could probably afford at least a couple time stop & gate scrolls... or the Alchemist if he decides to invest in Use Magic Device. What are the rulings on scrolls and wands (and other consumables) for this duel?
He asked if I wanted to randomize the availability of magic items. I said no - how else can I get my ring of solo turning? I also am counting on scrolls to buff up my formulae.
I think the best bet is to concentrate on the mutagen and get the wizard into melee as fast as possible.
Pick feral mutagen and greater mutagen. Increase Strength and Dex.
Get a ring of Spell Turning and a two stone ring of Delayed Doom.
Also get an Amulet of Might Fists. If you know what race he will choose, then get the Bane quality, if not then get Wounding.
Get Boots of Speed.
Take Improved Natural Attack on Claws and Bite. Also Improved Critical on both.
Spend any remaining coin on strength enhancements.
Other choices would be Cape of the Mountebank (to close distance fast) and anything that increases Wisdom or Will saves.
If he gets initiative, then shrug it off using Spell Turning and Delayed Doom. Close to melee and proceed to tear him to pieces.
Have bombs ready as a backup if you can't get close enough for melee at first.
If you have time to buff up before combat, you could buy 2-4 scrolls of antimagic field (you have to buy more than one scroll in case you roll a natural 1 on the UMD check to activate the first).
Since the UMD DC to activate the scroll is 31, you will probably need skill focus (UMD) and perhaps magical knack too, i'm quite sure they stack.
If you succeed you will have lost most of your alchemist abilities, but on the other hand the wizard won't be able to cast any spells at you either thus rendering most of his spells useless.
I think bombs and mutagens work in anti-magic field, just infusions don't.
Maybe you should try to save or die him:)
If I recall right, the Alchemist gets a Version of Magic Jar(don´t know what its called now but I think its a 5th level extract) and I assume he doesn´t invest heavily in his Will Save so that might be an option.
Maybe you should try to save or die him:)
If I recall right, the Alchemist gets a Version of Magic Jar(don´t know what its called now but I think its a 5th level extract) and I assume he doesn´t invest heavily in his Will Save so that might be an option.
It's regular magic jar. I'm considering keeping it on deck in case of summoned dragons or whatnot. It's assuming too much that he'll dump his will save.
Yep you´re right. Just looked it up but I was thinking about Marrionette Possesion.