I remember reading it the pathfinder setting books that all the base races matured physicaly at a similar rate. Does anyone know where that is covered?
If I understand what you are looking for, try the Core Rulebook page 168-169.
Actually I believe that's the exact opposite of what's being asked for. Unless I'm mistaken, Mr. Green is asking for evidence in support of the theory that the starting ages in the CRB represent the age at which a member of that race is considered to have reached the age of majority rather than the rate at which they physically grow and mature.
Nothing published. Just a whole lot of hear say, and idea throwing around.
I remember reading it the pathfinder setting books that all the base races matured physicaly at a similar rate. Does anyone know where that is covered?
If I recall, this is something that 4E did. I don't remember anything about pathfinder doing this, though.
It takes 15 years to potty train elves, this is the whole reason there are so few of them!
I'm not certain which is the scarier prospect; having to slog through a decade for each stage of an elf (or dwarf, or gnome) child's development or having them reach a state of maturity as quickly as a human child would (say twelve to fifteen years). On the one hand you've got to deal with dirty diapers for over a decade; on the other you have a child who, in the blink of an eye (relatively speaking) goes from babbling to being an outspoken critic who petulantly complains about not being treated as an adult for the remainder of his decades-long childhood...
Well, unless female elves have a reproductive system that can simply create new eggs on demand rather than being born with all of theirs, then I'd suspect most elves having their offspring before they get to be too terribly old. Even so, that seemingly 'rapid' growth is probably part of the reason there are:
A) Half-elves
B) Low elven birth rates
C) They make certain not to consider someone adult until they've experienced the consequences of forming friendships with shorter-lived peoples.
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That's possible too. In my setting I've determined that they have an estrous cycle instead of a menstrual cycle. I think it fits better with their longevity and ties to the natural world.
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The entire idea about elves being 110 before they are allowed out into the world is moronic, ludicrous, stupid, ... you get the idea. If that was the case, there would be no elves whatsoever. It boils down to merely dividing the extended lifespan of the elves by human life phases, and getting a very large number.
Elves develop just as fast as humans. They potty train, learn to talk, walk and such in exactly the same time humans do. They even learn the basics of fencing and archery as quickly as humans.
What is interesting is the next part. Once they have their basic education (which does not, incidentally, take 90 years, duh), their elders WISH to shelter them from harm. Note that in a typical elven society, a vanishingly small percentage would be children. Thus, most children do get pushed into learning history, stuffy crafts, fashion, and so on... but eventually, enough will be enough. Love happens. Wanderlust happens. Curiosity happens. Rebellion happens. By the age of 30 or so, they WILL run off, and the society will let them so as not to alienate their children completely.
And so, they fall in love, they get hurt, and for a good while, they feel more or less like humans, living in human lands, adventuring, starting families perhaps.
Until one day, when their mates start growing old, and they are still ever youthful. A guesstimate would be after perhaps 20 or 30 years. At that point, they will understand that they are not like humans, and they will return to their elven communities to truly learn what an elven lifespan means, perhaps aged 60 or so. Nobody else can tell them that, because nobody else truly understands it. Once this is done, they are seen as mature elves by their community, but those adventuring would be quite a bit younger.
It would also be a fascinating thing to play an elf just trying to come to terms with how long she's going to live.
Good stuff.
That's kind of what I was hinting at with option "C" above, but you illustrated the point quite poetically.
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Not long ago, there was an action game I recently played on the PC that featured a team-up between a male human berserker and a young female elven archer. There was some really great banter in there and one of the more amusing quotes by the human, Caddock, was: "E'lara, you're twice my age and only half as mature!"
While it was humorous, I thought it also summed up a lot about the differences between the two cultures. At a mere 60-80 years old, the elf girl already saw the human getting old, yet she was still in the prime of her life and just as capable of holding her own in a fight.
I'd definitely say that coming to terms with their longevity would be an intrinsic part of elvish society. It also casts another light on their desire for seclusion. It's not necessarily about having an insular society as it is shielding themselves from the pain of that loss.
Stuff...
What you describe is a fine interpretation, but it somewhat contradicts the race's official description in Pathfinder which precludes any elven adventurers younger than 114 years. Just saying...
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I'd definitely say that coming to terms with their longevity would be an intrinsic part of elvish society.
Except you're looking at the situation from a human perspective. Elves don't have to do anythingi special to "come to terms" with their longevity. Their life span is what it is. Their expected life span is no longer than that of any of their elven friends. If there's any coming to terms to be done, it will be when they meet a human, and learn that the humans have such a shockingly short lifespan.
What you describe is a fine interpretation, but it somewhat contradicts the race's official description in Pathfinder which precludes any elven adventurers younger than 114 years. Just saying...
Funny fact, at the end of Lord of the Rings, Tolkien described Cirdan the shipwright as having a long, flowing beard. It wasn't until years later that he realized he'd made a mistake as he learned more about elves.
The point being, just because something is written in a book doesn't necessarily mean the person writing it was necessarily the final authority on the matter. Tolkien pretty much went to his grave regretting that mistake.
If the go-to authority on all things elven could have made a mistake, I think it's fair to say that others could as well. Remember, the CRB is chiefly intended to be as setting neutral as possible. Cultural and societal matters such as this would be more the purview of a settings book.
If elves in Golarion wear diapers for 15 years... well, sucks to be their parents. That was not however the case in Middle Earth, nor in many other fantasy tales/tropes.
Except you're looking at the situation from a human perspective. Elves don't have to do anythingi special to "come to terms" with their longevity. Their life span is what it is. Their expected life span is no longer than that of any of their elven friends.
The funny thing about adolescents is that they want to go off and do all the things their parents don't want them to do. They want to listen to different music, go places they aren't supposed to, have pre-marital sex, etc. Are you suggesting that elven adolescents would be immune to the same tendencies and have no sense of adventure or curiosity? That would fly in the face of a great many fantasy tropes.
The point is, at some point they will have to deal with the consequences of longevity. If it is not their own, then it will certainly be that of their non-human friends and acquaintances. It's six of one, half a dozen of the other.
If there's any coming to terms to be done, it will be when they meet a human, and learn that the humans have such a shockingly short lifespan.
Yes, that's my point actually.
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Considering I've made young character rules for my campaign, this is something that I too have thought a lot about, and since D&D as a whole has not really dealt with the idea of young characters or aging effects since very early on in the game (i.e. back when the haste spell aged you 1 year each time it was cast on you), it's basically something you decide for yourself.
So, why not look at the real world for inspiration? Naturally, the "age of adulthood" for humans has changed frequently between cultures and time periods, as have the rituals for pronouncing one's adulthood. For example, if one takes "physically mature" in a biological sense, you're basically referring to the point where the creature is old enough to father/mother offspring, which can be alarmingly young in some cases. Physical maturity differs from person to person, but the general consensus is around 15 years of age. However, in some countries (again, I'm going to use America as an example), you're still considered a child for several years after hitting that magical age of maturity; 18 is the official age of adulthood in the United States, but even then you have to wait until you're 21 in order to buy alcoholic beverages, which could be seen as the true "age of adulthood" by some people. All the while you've been physically mature for 3 to 6 years!
Personally, I use the book's age categories for all races as a guideline. I have all my races divided into one of three developmental speeds (Fast, Average, Slow) and I use them when determining rough estimates of how long it takes a member of that race to reach physical maturity. It looks something like this:
Fast: Toddler (1 - 3) / Child (4 - 8) / Youth (9 - 14)
Average: Toddler (2 - 4) / Child (5 - 10) / Youth (11 - 15)
Slow: Toddler (2 - 4) / Child (5 - 12) / Youth (12 - 20)
Now, in my campaign, once you're past the Youth stage, you're considered an Adult, but the average age of adventurers is the minimum age for adults, as given in the Core Rulebook; for example, most elves wouldn't consider adventuring until they are almost a century old; that's about how long it takes them to bore of elven life and develop a sense of wanderlust. I personally use these ranges on a race-by-race basis; for example, Half-Orcs, Orcs, and Ratfolk would be on the Fast track, Humans are on the Average track, and Dwarves, Elves, and Half-Elves are on the slow track. I could, however, see this system being applied on an individual-by-individual basis; seeing as some people look like they're 15 easily into their twenties.
Moral of the story: No, there's almost nothing on this topic anywhere. It's very much left open to the rules of your campaign. Hope this helps a little :).
If the go-to authority on all things elven could have made a mistake, I think it's fair to say that others could as well. Remember, the CRB is chiefly intended to be as setting neutral as possible. Cultural and societal matters such as this would be more the purview of a settings book.
Possibly it is a mistake. But if it is, it's one that's been accepted and reiterated by countless game designers for decades; not just by the fine folks at Paizo. For good or ill at some point the 100+ years minimum age of maturity has become the default/official assumption for fantasy elves in our favorite gaming system(s). You or anyone else is, of course, free to change the background info for any of the core races. I've done so on a few occasions for my home-brewed campaigns.
Possibly it is a mistake. But if it is, it's one that's been accepted and reiterated by countless game designers for decades; not just by the fine folks at Paizo. For good or ill at some point the 100+ years minimum age of maturity has become the default/official assumption for fantasy elves in our favorite gaming system(s).
I think the most likely explanation is that it's just one of those things that most people never gave a whole lot of thought to.
I think the most likely explanation is that it's just one of those things that most people never gave a whole lot of thought to.
Depends what you mean by "most people". We've got a dozen people discussing the matter in this very thread. A casual gamer might not have ever stopped to consider the matter, but seeing how most game designers are diehard geeks who've played countless elven characters over the years I'd hazard to say that they've likely considered it at great length somewhere between their musings of who would win in a fight between Sauron and the Incredible Hulk, nitpicking Star Wars timeline discrepancies and pondering the difficulties Superman must have in shaving every morning. ;)
Hah, fair point. I'm just happy to see the matter finally seeing some dialog. It's a matter that's been near and dear to me for many years, and I've frequently been frustrated that even here, no one ever has ever really wanted to discuss it.
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Ultimately, all of these sort of questions are setting dependent and not really part of the core rules. The core rules assume adventurers start at 110+ years old but really that is a point of reference for players and is essentially an arbitrary number, if you want elves that mature at 20 in your campaign world, there are no huge consequences to it.
elves of golarion?
Which is campaign setting specific :)
Does it contain any information which contradicts the 100+ elven maturity figure?
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And no one here has any problems with the idea that goblins or kobolds grow up much faster (in some stories, 2-4 years to be considered an "adult")?
Everyone wants to make non-human races have human like standards.. While this does make them easier to play, it takes away from the oddness of the races.
Instead of a dwarf, you have a short, hairy human with a fixation on things from the ground.
Instead of an elf, you just have a human who likes nature. (at least how I have seen it played).
Someone asked above if the elven "teenagers" would be immune to the wonder-lust and experimentation that human teenagers have. Maybe the answer is yes.
Maybe not immune, but not overwhelmed either. Do all human teenagers leave their homes and cultures, leave family and friends behind and go to foreign countries?And no one here has any problems with the idea that goblins or kobolds grow up much faster (in some stories, 2-4 years to be considered an "adult")?
Everyone wants to make non-human races have human like standards.. While this does make them easier to play, it takes away from the oddness of the races.
Instead of a dwarf, you have a short, hairy human with a fixation on things from the ground.
Instead of an elf, you just have a human who likes nature. (at least how I have seen it played).
Someone asked above if the elven "teenagers" would be immune to the wonder-lust and experimentation that human teenagers have. Maybe the answer is yes.
No but I sure as hell wanted to.
On topic, I always assumed the late ages for elven maturity to be cultural. Most cultures have a benchmark when the child is considered an adult. Many families still have a unique benchmark or two. For example, I'm still considered a 'teenager' by my family's standards because I have not yet bred. And I likely never will breed so I likely never will be considered an 'adult' in family matters. While this means I still get to hunt easter eggs it does mean I get handed a basket and shoved outside to go hunt easter eggs, cane and all.
It seems like a stupid rule to an outsider. And to me. But the family believes in this odd cultural custom very strongly. I assume elves are like that. Somewhere in Golarion there's a 110 year old elf with a basket of sugar butterflies and honey cakes in front of them, their elders telling them that have to go hunt for painted Desna's Eggs because they're not yet an adult. And this elf thinks it just as demeaning as I do.
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Hah, fair point. I'm just happy to see the matter finally seeing some dialog. It's a matter that's been near and dear to me for many years, and I've frequently been frustrated that even here, no one ever has ever really wanted to discuss it.
Imagine how I feel with the topic of Sauron and the Hulk's theoretical fight constantly falling by the wayside. It'd be awesome...
Back on topic... I've no problem with the idea that elves slowly reach maturity over a span of a century; it's deliciously inhuman. Keep in mind that humans themselves have an amazingly slow maturation rate when compared to most creatures of the animal kingdom; it's not hard to carry that dichotomy along to a longer lived race. Elves, with their broader view of the passage of time, likely perceive it differently than we, as humans, might. Elven parents likely feel like their offspring's 100+ year infancy and youth fly past them too quickly.
I've had fun with this phenomena in my own campaigns. It's particularly interesting to imagine elves interacting with their half-elven offspring. In one campaign I had two players playing elf and half-elf siblings. Although mature, the half-elf had to contend with the fact that the elven children whom she played with as a child were still children and relatively unchanged. In turn, the elves in her community had trouble coming to grips with the notion that this independent-minded half-elf in their midst was an in fact an adult when she otherwise should have been still playing with dolls and learning to speak.
In another campaign, one of the players was the half-elf offspring of a young elven woman who'd gotten pregnant after a careless sexual liaison with a human. He would often awaken with his mother staring at him; uncomfortable and yet strangely fascinated as she was by his need to sleep. As the campaign progressed, and we further role-played interactions with his mother, he eventually came to realize that we was passing her by in maturity. Since he'd grown up the proverbial blink of an eye, his mother hadn't really had to come to grips with her motherhood and so remained largely the same. While he was becoming a responsible adult, his mother remained a flighty and somewhat vapid adolescent girl. The player was having a deliciously fun time trying to not speak to her condescendingly. In essence, their relationship had reversed with he becoming the parent and her the child. His maternal grandfather took on the role of parent and mentor to him since his daughter wasn't yet ready for the role herself.
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And no one here has any problems with the idea that goblins or kobolds grow up much faster (in some stories, 2-4 years to be considered an "adult")?
Well in fairness, goblins are never really adults, more like evil children unchecked. They just skip the awkward young stages of human growth and once they are old enough to kill their siblings they are considered mature and they are let out of the cage.
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If I recall FR's take on this, which might still be relevant. Elves matured a little slower then humans, elven women were pregnant for almost 2 years for example and toddlers aged about as fast as humans, but stayed child-like a bit longer, not decades or anything but a few years. But the big reason for the long maturity can be easily looked at in everyone favorite drow. To elves he is still a child in many ways, unable to let go of the past and live in the now,to think like an elf.
Many folks claim he comes off as "whiny Emo teenager" , well he is. He never leaned to be an elf, to deal with the fact he will outlive most people and how much he is different.
Elves need that time not be be physically mature, but to be mentally grounded.
To me, the idea that elves are patient and passive in all things including age fits. Their quiet, contemplative nature born from the fact they spend so many years growing and maturing. I could easily see an elf who is 45 years old and looks like a 12 year old by human standards, and finally becoming the physical equivelant of a 18-20 year old in his/her 100+ year...
Imagine how I feel with the topic of Sauron and the Hulk's theoretical fight constantly falling by the wayside. It'd be awesome...
I know right? Then there's the part where the Enterprise-D shows up and Picard negotiates a truce just before the DeathStar nukes the site from orbit . But does the Empire get a big surprise when Galactus shows up and mistakes their new space station for a bon-bon! Oh man... good times.
Back on topic...
Anyway, I like the story possibilities that are possible from both sides, of the great elven maturity debate. The story you related certainly sounds well thought out and interesting, and I really like the idea of exploring how the racial and societal issues play out when the variables get changed around. Regardless of how things might be on Golarion, I think it would be an interesting to delve into some fantasy anthropology and contemplate how such societies might differ if they age at the same rate as humans vs. at the rate in your tale.
I have to get ready for my local game right now, but I'd love to read and contribute some thoughts on the matter later on. That's the best way to refine ideas after all. :)
The reason I posted this thread was to find some validation for a character concept. In the pathfinder setting there are elves called the Forlorn.
A forlorn is an elf that has spent a majority of his time outside of elven society. Thus he is a stranger to that society.
Now there is a trait called adopted in the setting, it allows you to be one race and get another race specific trait. However for me the idea of a elven child adopted into a human household seems very interesting.
However the interesting part is him adventuring while seeing his family passion, human brothers and sister starting families while he has no drive to.
Unfortunately it seems that aspect of the game must be ignored in favor of the rules. You got's to be a a really old and uneducated character, sorry them's the rules.
Normally I can't play a elf because I just can't relate to, or understand a character that is 5 times my age. It's too alien. Too make matters worse is the Elf is 100+ years old yet knows no more than his 1st level class allows him to know. Their are a couple of feats that can help give the illusion of 5 lifetimes of knowledge but who can afford the feat expense when trying to play in a 3 party group. Each member has to fill there role and fill it well.
As for why the elf has maintained the 110+ starting age. Because people are lazy. The just copy and paste and make changes to critical rules.
The Idea that an elf's life cycle is :
Infancy 0-14 years
Early Childhood 15 - 30 years
Middle Childhood 30 - 49 years
Late Childhood 45-59
Adolescence 60-113
Early Adulthood (YOUNG ADULT) 114-174
Midlife (MIDDLE AGE)175 - 250
Mature Adulthood (OLD) 263- 350
Late Adulthood (Venerable) 350-1400
is just silly.
The only reference material we have for the Elves of Golarion is a pathfinder companion that is greatly out of date. That book uses 3.5 rules not pathfinder rules. The listing for elves in that have them going into a trance. Which in pathfinder core rules they do NOT.
As I see it the problem is two fold.
1. At 114+ years we are too take as a fact that this creature has learned no more than a human of 16 years of age!
2. We then are forced to to create a silly life cycle for the elf that we can have no basis on the natural world as we know it.
How this can be fixed is really really easy, have them mature at the rate as humans, heck say that they are a little slow and it the elven starting age is 25. It has no impact on the mechanics in any way what so ever. However stating that a Elven player must be over a century old has dramatic impact on how the creature is role played.
Unfortunately such situations as this has generated creates a conundrum for ST's either house rule something or just say I know it makes no sense but heck it's fantasy!.
I wounder if Asimov, Tolkien, or Howard or Hickman ever made that excuse.
Stuff
While I'm not actually a strong fan of the super-slow maturation rate either, you're confusing their capability with what is morally correct.
Full emotional maturity comes from a brain being fully finished in its development (which, I think, only happens in humans at approximately 21 years old, if I recall correctly). So would it be feasible to put elves through a full spate of adventures at a very young age? Yes. They could learn most anything they needed to in that time.
Incidentally, humans can also make their two-year-olds walk a quarter-mile to retrieve water or gather cow manure for the house fires; force a six year old to help till the ground with a hoe or mine for coal with a pickaxe all day; conscript an eight year old and train them in the arts of war and murder; and marry a thirteen year old off, expecting them to be fully competent as a governmental rul- er, I mean, expecting them to function independently as a "mature adult". That has, in fact, been done with relative success throughout history. That doesn't make it morally correct (even if it was seen as "necessary" at the time, for survival - which it may well have been).
This is what the "young adult" stuff is trying to get at: that point when the creatures emotional-mental maturity (due to the latest stage of biological processes) is such that they are capable of being considered a "man" or "woman".
Also, if super-slow maturation age cycles of elves are a problem for you, than the super-long-lifespan of elves must be too, because, also, there's nothing like it in nature. It's fantasy for a reason: that's the reason. Elves can outlive trees. That's a long, long lifespan. They also don't get all wrinkly, spotted, or "old" (despite the age penalties). So, you know, not like anything that lives.
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I'm still of the nature that elves in my campaigns mature physically at about the same rate as humans but mentally it's really up to the individual. I know some forgotten realms books (Salvatore really) had young elves including Drizzt and the female elf he saved/dealt with later as examples.
I know this is Pathfinder, of course, so it's possibly different if they want it to be so but it's just too weird to me to sign up on. Strokes for different folks I guess.
Now you've given me an idea for an adopted elf character who's been raised by 3-4 generations of a human family. Now that has some weirdness and trauma to it.
Funny. I was thinking the same thing while reading his background.
Now you've given me an idea for an adopted elf character who's been raised by 3-4 generations of a human family. Now that has some weirdness and trauma to it.Funny. I was thinking the same thing while reading his background.
That is intresting.
StuffWhile I'm not actually a strong fan of the super-slow maturation rate either, you're confusing their capability with what is morally correct.
Full emotional maturity comes from a brain being fully finished in its development (which, I think, only happens in humans at approximately 21 years old, if I recall correctly). So would it be feasible to put elves through a full spate of adventures at a very young age? Yes. They could learn most anything they needed to in that time.
Incidentally, humans can also make their two-year-olds walk a quarter-mile to retrieve water or gather cow manure for the house fires; force a six year old to help till the ground with a hoe or mine for coal with a pickaxe all day; conscript an eight year old and train them in the arts of war and murder; and marry a thirteen year old off, expecting them to be fully competent as a governmental rul- er, I mean, expecting them to function independently as a "mature adult". That has, in fact, been done with relative success throughout history. That doesn't make it morally correct (even if it was seen as "necessary" at the time, for survival - which it may well have been).
This is what the "young adult" stuff is trying to get at: that point when the creatures emotional-mental maturity (due to the latest stage of biological processes) is such that they are capable of being considered a "man" or "woman".
Also, if super-slow maturation age cycles of elves are a problem for you, than the super-long-lifespan of elves must be too, because, also, there's nothing like it in nature. It's fantasy for a reason: that's the reason. Elves can outlive trees. That's a long, long lifespan. They also don't get all wrinkly, spotted, or "old" (despite the age penalties). So, you know, not like anything that lives.
Your missing my point. I think it is difficult at best to play a character that is so dramatically older than us that its hard to imagine. Most games will never come to the point that an elf hits mature adult.
Now you take one really difficult thing to imagine, such as being alive for a century. Then you put on top of that a 40 or so years of puberty, and an equaly long period of child like mentality. You get something so alien Alien and bazaar as to not even remotely be human.
Races are ment to be an exzageration of humans in fantasy writing. At no point were dwarves an elves supposed to be so removed from humanity as to be lovecraftian .
To play a race we should be able to somewhat relate to it. Dwarves are stern, strong, wise, but stubborn and stern. Elves are youthful, vibrant, but flighty and lack focus.
Thus dwarves represent to the reader a more adult character, that we can relate to as an favored uncle, father or grandparent. Something we may become, and we can then see the faults that could be.
Elves represent youth, we can relate to our own youths when we thought we were immortal. They might remind us of a son, daughter, nephew, or a kid that we once saw within us.
In a game, these characters should help inspire us in similar ways.
Mechanicaly the elven age is a weakness. We will never get stat bonuses or minuses for ageing.
I guess I'm saying I can relate to old age, far better than super slow physical/mental maturity.
As for history it was not uncommon in the early1900s to find 8,9,10,11,12 year olds working fulltime jobs.
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Your missing my point. I think it is difficult at best to play a character that is so dramatically older than us that its hard to imagine. Most games will never come to the point that an elf hits mature adult.
Now you take one really difficult thing to imagine, such as being alive for a century. Then you put on top of that a 40 or so years of puberty, and an equaly long period of child like mentality. You get something so alien Alien and bazaar as to not even remotely be human.
Races are meant to be an exaggeration of humans in fantasy writing. At no point were dwarves an elves supposed to be so removed from humanity as to be lovecraftian.
I see what you're saying, but I'm of the opposite opinion. If anything, I can too easily imagine the much longer lifespan of an elf; as I imagine most people might. Human life oftentimes seems unnaturally short; key stages of it are over long before we're ready to see them go. Too quickly childhood is left behind and we're thrust into an awkward adolescence. By the time we're comfortable with the notion of being grownup we're already fretting about turning thirty. Our modern society has many of us putting off getting married and having children of our own because it seems far too soon to us. We put it off so long that we have to worry about it being feasible by the time we're ready to contemplate it. And, before you know it, you're middle-aged and in such a desperate panic for your youth that you go through a mid-life crisis. Your joints stiffen, you start putting on weight and what once might have been simple physical exertions became challenging. You find yourself taking pleasure in simply being in good health. Then you turn around and realize that your kids are grown and in serious relationships of their own and contemplating having offspring of their own. And through it all, you imagine yourself to yet be young because, damn it, you still feel as if you should be young; even if you really aren't anymore. Truly, life often seems to be flying past us in a dizzying blur.
For eons people have dreamed of being able to slow down the march of years to a reasonable pace with which they could better cope. Even as human lifespans have increased from 30+ to 60+ to 90+ years and beyond, we all too easily extend each stage of development. Childhood used to be over by puberty but then, as people began living longer, we extended it through adolescence. Nowadays people continue to act immature until their mid to late twenties. What used to be an entire human lifespan is now merely the span of our youth. And yet it continues to seem too short for our ambitions. I'd hazard to say that, if we extended our lifespans a further fifty years, we'd all too easily extend the period of youth into our forties and even fifties.
That's what elves are; the dream of humanity for the sort of life that we imagine we should have. It's not hard at all to imagine. Simply envision a long and joyful childhood in which you have all the time in the world to run and play without the worry of growing up followed by an easy and graceful transition into adolescence with plenty of time to develop wisdom and discover love. Much later, when you're ready to move on, you mature in adulthood easily and effortlessly with no need to rush; all the world lies open to you with all the time you'll possibly need to travel anywhere and try all those little things you've heard about without concern for declining health.
If anything, I find the core races far too similar to humanity to be interesting for long. That's why I personally tend to gravitate to the more fantastic races.
My elves envy humans sometimes as well: How determined they are. How quickly they can accomplish so much. "They burn so brightly."
Oh sure. Some of the elves who venture out of elven lands to encounter humans may very well feel that way. People often romanticize the lives of youthful mavericks and rebels, even if they themselves wouldn't really want to live that way. Those who are sufficiently impressed however are likely become the elven adventurers who pepper our campaigns.
I see what you're saying, but I'm of the opposite opinion. If anything, I can too easily imagine the much longer lifespan of an elf; as I imagine most people might. Human life oftentimes seems unnaturally short; key stages of it are over long before we're ready to see them go. Too quickly childhood is left behind and we're thrust into an awkward adolescence. By the time we're comfortable with the notion of being grownup we're already fretting about turning thirty. Our modern society has many of us putting off getting married and having children of our own because it seems far too soon to us. We put it off so long that we have to worry about it being feasible by the time we're ready to contemplate it. And, before you know it, you're middle-aged and in such a desperate panic for your youth that you go through a mid-life crisis. Your joints stiffen, you start putting on weight and what once might have been simple physical exertions became challenging. You find yourself taking pleasure in simply being in good health. Then you turn around and realize that your kids are grown and in serious relationships of their own and contemplating having offspring of their own. And through it all, you imagine yourself to yet be young because, damn it, you still feel as if you should be young; even if you really aren't anymore. Truly, life often seems to be flying past us in a dizzying blur.
For eons people have dreamed of being able to slow down the march of years to a reasonable pace with which they could better cope. Even as human lifespans have increased from 30+ to 60+ to 90+ years and beyond, we all too easily extend each stage of development. Childhood used to be over by puberty but then, as people began living longer, we extended it through adolescence. Nowadays people continue to act immature until their mid to late twenties. What used to be an entire human lifespan is now merely the span of our youth. And yet it continues to seem too short for our ambitions. I'd hazard to say that, if we extended our lifespans a further fifty years, we'd all too easily extend the period of youth into our forties and even fifties.
That's what elves are; the dream of humanity for the sort of life that we imagine we should have. It's not hard at all to imagine. Simply envision a long and joyful childhood in which you have all the time in the world to run and play without the worry of growing up followed by an easy and graceful transition into adolescence with plenty of time to develop wisdom and discover love. Much later, when you're ready to move on, you mature in adulthood easily and effortlessly with no need to rush; all the world lies open to you with all the time you'll possibly need to travel anywhere and try all those little things you've heard about without concern for declining health.
If anything, I find the core races far too similar to humanity to be interesting for long. That's why I personally tend to gravitate to the more fantastic races.
Great post.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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That's what elves are; the dream of humanity for the sort of life that we imagine we should have. It's not hard at all to imagine. Simply envision a long and joyful childhood in which you have all the time in the world to run and play without the worry of growing up followed by an easy and graceful transition into adolescence with plenty of time to develop wisdom and discover love. Much later, when you're ready to move on, you mature in adulthood easily and effortlessly with no need to rush; all the world lies open to you with all the time you'll possibly need to travel anywhere and try all those little things you've heard about without concern for declining health.
If anything, I find the core races far too similar to humanity to be interesting for long. That's why I personally tend to gravitate to the more fantastic races.
This is great, I think a good roadmap for making a fun character. I think the only real loose end is the fact that Elf PCs sort of get on the fast train once they become PCs. In a way that can be a sort of character forming idea too. Elves who live in the elven enclaves wouldn't want their friends and family going out into the human world because when they leave the elven realms they change so quickly. While 10 years in elven society is hardly any time at all and the elves there would be barely changed, an elf going adventuring in human lands would return a completely different person. It would be very traumatic for a family.
Gnomes I almost see as the opposite though, in spite of their long lives (potentially longer than elves) they embrace change and go through life like a whirlwind, sampling a little bit of everything at least once. I envision two gnomes meeting each other after years apart would not wax nostalgic about old times, but instead enter into a frenzied exchange of the rich experiences they had while they were apart.