The Mount evolution costs one point from your eidolon's evo. pool and is restricted to quadruped and serpentine type eidolons. It's about a quarter of the page down on the SRD Eidolon page. Though really all it does is make the eidolon suitable for use as a mount- as per The Ride Skill, you can still ride a creature which is unsuitable if you are okay a -5 on the check. So if you only need to guide it with your knees (so you can fight), that's a DC of 5, which you should be able to automatically make with skill points and feats/ traits.
As to the build, mounted archery feels like a good way to go- casting in combat is a bear, and casters themselves are squishy. So instead, use your mount's move to get away while you shoot arrows and spells.
Or even better mount your eidolon, get a lance, steal from the eidolon pounce, and make your GM cry.
You got it for the most part.
I'm going to point out that Quadruped isn't always better than Serpentine for a mounted build (or indeed in general). Yes, slower speed is a disadvantage for Serpentine, but that can be compensated for with Expeditious Retreat during combat (and out of combat it's probably irrelevant). Even a wand of it would go a long way.
Serpents also get the Climb evolution for free which helps a lot with mobility for mounts. He's unlikely to need Pounce because he's not building his character for combat. Serpents also have Reach for free, which can be nice for a character that likes to keep his distance.
Serpents also have the highest Reflex saving throws of all Eidolons, which helps with Evasion. It'll have more balanced saving throws in general because its weak save is Fort and he'll have slightly higher Con than Wis (especially if he puts an ability score increase in it and/or makes it Large/Huge), which contributes to Will, the weak save of Quadrupeds. Granted, Devotion helps with Will saves.
Serpentine is a viable option. It's usually weaker than the other two forms, but not always.
Another reason to choose Serpentine Eidolon is that they are immune to trip! Having a trip immune mount seems like a smart choice to me!
My idea of a mount is something that moves faster than I do, not slower.
That's fair. Though if you're a halfling, the Serpentine Eidolon is tied for speed. : P
Could also add a pair of feet for 2 evolution points to give it a faster base land speed, though that would remove the trip immunity. I stand by Expeditious Retreat as a suitable replacement, depending on the rest of your build and concept.
I'll likely go with a Quad - if for no other reason than I can go into town without the commoners running screaming from the giant snake.
Y'know, I need to take this whole "what would the peasants think" Idea more into account. Just because I can make a werewolf/hulk that can carry wagons, doesn't mean I should use him to toss orphans across buildings.
so if the Summoner is medium sized, than having an Eidolon mount is out of the question at lower levels, as if memory serves me correctly, it was quite expensive to make a large eidolon. am i correct?
Summoners can't get Large Eidolons until 8th level. Before then the best you can do is use Enlarge Person on it to be usable as a medium Summoner's mount.
I think it goes strongly against RAI to use a Biped base form as a mount, even untrained. I don't think it's strictly against RAW though.
Summoners can't get Large Eidolons until 8th level. Before then the best you can do is use Enlarge Person on it to be usable as a medium Summoner's mount.
I think it goes strongly against RAI to use a Biped base form as a mount, even untrained. I don't think it's strictly against RAW though.
SO what's the difference between having a "mount" and being carried by a humanoid shape, assuming sufficient strength?
SO what's the difference between having a "mount" and being carried by a humanoid shape, assuming sufficient strength?Summoners can't get Large Eidolons until 8th level. Before then the best you can do is use Enlarge Person on it to be usable as a medium Summoner's mount.
I think it goes strongly against RAI to use a Biped base form as a mount, even untrained. I don't think it's strictly against RAW though.
I'd assume you'd have limited options if you're in someone's backpack or on their back as opposed to you being mounted on something designed as a mount. Difficulty with drawing your gear while you're in a backpack or difficulty with balancing if you're not in a backpack. Stuff like that. I'd assume there'd be some mechanical drawbacks because they say Bipeds can't get the Mount evolution.
Ok... I just had a very silly idea. If I go with a Bipod build, and use the Eidolon as a mount, would it look like a kangaroo? I could then name my character something like Roo, and the Eidolon would be Kanga. This is just silly enough that I might just go with it. The Saddle would have to be an exotic - but I could go with a front mount, kind of like a baby carrier for my halfling. wow...The mount evolution can not be used with a bipedal base form.
Actually, if you go with a serpentine build and give the eidolon a pair of legs, you could get something that looks very much like a kangaroo. You can't take the pounce evolution, but you can take Skilled (Jump) and max out the eidolon's Jump skill.
I'd assume you'd have limited options if you're in someone's backpack or on their back as opposed to you being mounted on something designed as a mount. Difficulty with drawing your gear while you're in a backpack or difficulty with balancing if you're not in a backpack. Stuff like that. I'd assume there'd be some mechanical drawbacks because they say Bipeds can't get the Mount evolution.
That brings up just the most... odd... mental image... Picture a gnome or halfling summoner with a medium or large eidolon that he used as a mount from a position in a backpack... Pump up the eidolon with combat capability...
"Who run Bartertown?!"
This thread has inspired me. I won't say how or for what, but know that I am inspired, and as a result a horrible horrible thing has occurred.
I think the sentence that reads "only available to serpentine and quadrapedal base forms" spells it out quite clearly.Summoners can't get Large Eidolons until 8th level. Before then the best you can do is use Enlarge Person on it to be usable as a medium Summoner's mount.
I think it goes strongly against RAI to use a Biped base form as a mount, even untrained. I don't think it's strictly against RAW though.
True, that rules it out in the "I'm riding on something" department. The question is more like "Is it against RAW for my 24 Str Biped to carry me around constantly in his backpack?"
Scent, Skilled (Perception), or Skilled (Acrobatics) would be good choices. Acrobatics covers Jump now. If you want Swim I'd just as soon consider the Aquatic base form.
Alternatively, I built a Halfling riding a Serpent Eidolon that was a functional Rogue:
Form: Serpentine
AC: 13 (Base 10 + Dex 3)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 20 ft
Ability Scores: <Str 12, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11>
Skills: <Perception(1)> +4, <Stealth(1)> +7, <Acrobatics(1)> +7, <Disable Device(1)> +7, <Diplomacy(1)> +4
Feats: Weapon Finesse (1st)
Evolutions (base): <bite, climb, reach(bite), tail, tail slap>
Evolutions (extra): Limbs(Arms), Mount
Attack Routine: Bite +4 (1d6+1) and Tail Slap -1 (1d6+1).
Notes: Halfling favored class bonus (or 5th level ability increase to Int) gives extra skill point. Maxes out first four skills and dips the fifth into useful skills. Halfling has Outrider alternate racial trait (+2 bonus on Ride and Handle Animal) and Wanderlust alternate racial trait (+1 CL on movement spells, +2 on Knowledge(Geography) and Survival). Expeditious Retreat compensates for slow movement. Mage Armor, a good ride check, and Mounted Combat from the halfling help protect the Eidolon from attacks, though admittedly not much at level due to short spell durations.
<Skill-dolon> (5th Level)
Form: <Serpentine>
AC: 19 (Base 10 + Dex 3 + INA 2 + NA 4)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 20 ft
Ability Scores: <Str 14, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11>
Skills: <Perception(4)> +15, <Stealth(4)> +18, <Acrobatics(4)> +18, <Disable Device(4)> +18, Diplomacy(1)> +4, <Sense Motive(1)> +4, <Bluff(1)> +4, <Intimidate(1)> +4
Feats: Weapon Finesse (1st), Combat Reflexes (2nd)
Evolutions (base): <bite, climb, reach(bite), tail, tail slap>
Evolutions (extra): <Skilled(Perception)(1), Skilled(Stealth)(1), Skilled(Disable Device)(1), Skilled(Acrobatics)(1), Mount(1), Improved Natural Armor(1), Limbs(Arms)(2)>
Attack Routine: Bite +7 (1d6+2) and Tail Slap +2 (1d6+2)
Notes: With impressive skills, the Eidolon can make a good skill-monkey rogue, freeing up options for the Summoner and the rest of the party.
<Skill-dolon> (10th Level)
Form: <Serpentine>
AC: 28 (Base 10 + Dex 8 + INA 2 + NA 8)
Initiative: +8
Speed: 20 ft
Ability Scores: <Str 16, Dex 26, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11>
Skills: <Perception(8)> +19, <Stealth(8)> +27, <Acrobatics(8)> +27, <Disable Device(8)> +27, <Diplomacy(3)> +6, <Sense Motive(2)> +5, <Bluff(2)> +5, <Intimidate(1)> +4
Feats: Weapon Finesse (1st), Combat Reflexes (2nd), Agile Maneuvers (3rd), Martial Weapon Proficiency: Short Sword (4th) Multiattack (bonus)
Evolutions (base): <bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, tail slap>
Evolutions (extra): <Skilled(Perception)(1), Skilled(Stealth)(1), Skilled(Disable Device)(1), Skilled(Acrobatics)(1), Mount(1), Improved Natural Armor(1), Trip(Bite)(2), Ability Increase(Dex, 2x)(4), Limbs(Arms)(2)>
Attack Routine: Bite +13/+8 (1d6+3) and Tail Slap +8 (1d6+3)
Notes: By this point there are some evolution and skill points to spare, so you can change a few evolutions to make it even more Skilled if your party needs a face. A good CMB and Trip on the bite helps control the battlefield. Medium size helps with practicality. Improved Share Spells with Reduce Person could also be helpful. Short Sword Proficiency gives a nice backup for damage, especially in case of DR.
Is third party stuff allowed? Because uh...these are awesome.
Hut Starting StatiSticS
Size Medium; Speed 20 ft. (climb 20 ft.); AC
+1 natural armor; Saves Fort (good), Ref (bad),
Will (good); Attack Slam (1d8); Ability Scores
Str 16, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11;
Free Evolutions claws, howdah*, limbs (legs).
*Indicates an evolution presented in this
product.
And:
Howdah (Ex): An eidolon has a built-in
cabin appropriate for holding one creature
a size category smaller than it, two creatures
two sizes smaller, or up to four creatures three
sizes smaller. Creatures within the eidolon
are more stable and better braced than those
riding a mount, and they take no penalties
for making ranged attacks while within it.
Additionally, they are not considered to be
suffering vigorous motion (for purposes of
concentration checks) unless the eidolon
takes a run action. Creatures in an eidolon’s
howdah are considered to have soft partial
cover (+2 bonus to AC, no bonus to Reflex
saving throws). An eidolon must have the
mount evolution to select this evolution.
And:
Lava Puddle (Su): An eidolon can, once per
day as a full-round action, create a puddle
of lava that fills its space to a depth of 2–3
inches and counts as difficult terrain. Any
creature that moves through this puddle of
lava takes 2d6 points of fire damage. This
damage continues for 1d3 rounds after the
creature leaves the lava pool, although then
it causes only 1d6 points of fire damage
per round. The lava puddle solidifies and
is safe to touch after a number of rounds
equal to the eidolon’s Hit Dice. At the
GM’s discretion, this puddle of lava could
start secondary fires. The eidolon can use
this ability one additional time per day by
spending 1 evolution point (maximum 3/
day). The summoner must be at least 5th
level before selecting this evolution.
Yea, go ahead and be a gnome with a walking volcano that has a hut on it. Who needs optimality when you've got style.
You're welcome. I'd also suggest Improved Natural Armor, just in case it gets in combat. Get a bit of a look at my build?
For reference:
Aquatic:
Speed: 20 ft., swim 40 ft.
AC: +4 natural armor
Saves: Fort (good), Ref (good), Will (bad)
Attack: bite (1d6)
Ability Scores: Str 16, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Free Evolutions: bite, improved natural armor, gills, swim (2)
Source: Ultimate Magic
Biped:
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: +2 natural armor
Saves: Fort (good), Ref (bad), Will (good)
Attack: 2 claws (1d4)
Ability Scores: Str 16, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Free Evolutions: claws, limbs (arms), limbs (legs).
Quadruped:
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: +2 natural armor
Saves: Fort (good), Ref (good), Will (bad)
Attack bite: (1d6)
Ability Scores: Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Free Evolutions: bite, limbs (legs) (2).
Serpentine:
Speed: 20 ft., climb 20 ft.
AC: +2 natural armor; Saves Fort (bad), Ref (good), Will (good)
Attack: bite (1d6), tail slap (1d6)
Ability Scores: Str 12, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Free Evolutions: bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, tail slap.
I made a goblin who's serpentine mount was a hover bike. I pump a bunch of points into the fly evolution and got him a 100ft fly speed. The high dex helps with AC and the fly checks. I also gave him arms and a crossbow. Lots and lots of bolts. Being able to move 100ft fire off a full attack +1 from the eidolon is so sweet. The skilled evolution is also great.
I don't think there is anything wrong with having an eidolon mount without the Mount evolution, especially if your Ride skill is high enough. Lurk3r pointed out in the 2nd post that the Mount evolution really only saves you 5 on a ride check, which is true.
The Mount evolution reads:
"An eidolon is properly skilled and formed to serve as a combat-trained mount. The eidolon must be at least one size category larger than its rider. This evolution is only available to eidolons of the quadruped and serpentine base forms."
So, it only makes an eidolon properly skilled as a mount. The requirement is that they have a proper form that allows them to BE skilled as a mount.
The ride skill has a clause that reads:
"If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks."
Thus, improperly formed/skilled mounts can still be mounted. This means that eidolons may be mounted, regardless of if they have the mount skill or if they are even eligible for the mount skill. There is no reason that a Biped Kangaroo type of eidolon could not be mounted. You'd just take a -5 penalty.