| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
"A cavalier's levels stack with any fighter levels he possesses for the purpose of meeting the level prerequisite for feats that specifically select a firearm, such as Weapon Specialization."
Does this mean the cavalier needs at least one lvl of Fighter to stack onto to qualify for weapons specialization? Or as long as it's firearm related, the cavalier lvls count as fighter lvls?
He must have at least one.
Same language as the Samurai's weapon expertise.
you dont need fighter levels.
you have 0 fighter levels + whatever levels count as fighter levels
By this logic, then any item that treats your fighter level as a higher level (or any class, really) would affect any one.
If you do not have levels in a class, you do not have 0 levels in that class.
You have - levels.
If there's text that says otherwise in the CRB, I'd love to see it.
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A cavalier’s levels stack with any fighter levels he possesses for the purpose of meeting the level prerequisite for feats that specifically select a firearm, such as Weapon Specialization.
the cavalier leves count as fighter levels for meeting prereqs.
just like every other class with an ability like this.
after 4th level they CAN take weapon spec, ect
The cavalier has no fighter levels, so they can't stack.
A cavalier’s levels stack with any fighter levels he possesses for the purpose of meeting the level prerequisite for feats that specifically select a firearm, such as Weapon Specialization.
He must possess fighter levels before they stack. You are not treated as being a 0th level fighter if you do not have any levels in fighter.
If they were meant to count as cavalier levels, they would've just said so, like the magus does:
Starting at 10th level, a magus counts 1/2 his total magus level as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack.
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| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"A cavalier's levels stack with any fighter levels he possesses for the purpose of meeting the level prerequisite for feats that specifically select a firearm, such as Weapon Specialization."
Does this mean the cavalier needs at least one lvl of Fighter to stack onto to qualify for weapons specialization? Or as long as it's firearm related, the cavalier lvls count as fighter lvls?
I think this is good candidate for FAQ. This exact topic has bounced around a couple other threads (including the samurai playtest) and I don't see that it has ever really been settled.
A number of people (myself included) agree with Name Violation's reading, which is that "levels stack with any fighter levels" means that your cavalier/samurai levels count as (and are added to) existing fighter levels when qualifying for feat prerequisites. So a 1st level fighter/3rd level samurai (1+3) and a 4th level samurai with no fighter levels (4+0) would both be able to take the Weapon Specialization feat for their katana.
However, as Cheapy pointed out, you could also easily read this as an ability that requires you to have fighter levels to use. Your cavalier/samurai levels don't count as fighter levels on their own, they only do that if you have at least one level of fighter to add on.
Personally, I agree with the first interpretation because I think it makes the most sense for 5 reasons:
2.) In both the musketeer and samurai examples the character is limited to fighter feats for one specific weapon that is iconic to that class. That lets a samurai pick up weapon specialization or penetrating strike with his katana, but not other feats that require fighter levels such as disruptive or spellbreaker.
3.) Both the musketeer and samurai get this ability early enough that they can pick up weapon specialization at 5th level, which is a lag from when the fighter can get it but only a small lag. IIRC, all the fighter-specific feats come at even levels so the musketeer/samurai would always be one level behind and limited to a very specific weapon choice. A fighter who focuses on the same weapon would still always be at least one level ahead feat-wise. This seems fair to me.
4.) The magus ability to count half their magus levels as fighter levels comes at 10th level. So a magus would have to wait until 11th level to pick up Weapon Specialization, which is a much greater lag. However, their ability does not limit them to a specific weapon choice, so this later blooming ability gives them a greater range of feat choices (including disruptive and spellbreaker).
5.) The martial artist archetype lets you treat your monk levels as fighter levels when taking feats for your unarmed strike, but if you go by the second, more literal reading you could argue that a martial artist who takes levels in fighter does not get to add their fighter levels to their monk levels because it doesn't say they stack. So a 3rd level martial artist/1st level fighter wouldn't qualify for Weapon Specialization in unarmed strike. I don't believe this is the case.
Personally, I would attribute the difference in how the abilities are presented to the fact that several authors work together on each book and editors can't catch every piece of possibly unclear wording. So we should definitely flag this for FAQ so we can get a definitive yes/no answer. Home games can obviously rule however they want, but this could easily become an issue in Pathfinder Society games.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"A cavalier's levels stack with any fighter levels he possesses for the purpose of meeting the level prerequisite for feats that specifically select a firearm, such as Weapon Specialization."
Does this mean the cavalier needs at least one lvl of Fighter to stack onto to qualify for weapons specialization? Or as long as it's firearm related, the cavalier lvls count as fighter lvls?
I think this is good candidate for FAQ. This exact topic has bounced around a couple other threads (including the samurai playtest) and I don't see that it has ever really been settled.
A number of people (myself included) agree with Name Violation's reading, which is that "levels stack with any fighter levels" means that your cavalier/samurai levels count as (and are added to) existing fighter levels when qualifying for feat prerequisites. So a 1st level fighter/3rd level samurai (1+3) and a 4th level samurai with no fighter levels (4+0) would both be able to take the Weapon Specialization feat for their katana.
However, as Cheapy pointed out, you could also easily read this as an ability that requires you to have fighter levels to use. Your cavalier/samurai levels don't count as fighter levels on their own, they only do that if you have at least one level of fighter to add on.
Personally, I agree with the first interpretation because I think it makes the most sense for 5 reasons:
** spoiler omitted **...
I think reason 1 is the most compelling. It has been repeatedly stated that Pathfinder wanted to end the ridiculous builds that plagued late-era 3.5 and end the practice of the 1/2 level dip. Of the dips, the 2-level fighter was one of the worst in it's ubiquity and the fact that nobody ever wanted to take Fighter 3.
The end of the multi-class builds is one of the reasons that prestige classes were phased out in favor of archetypes and was the impetus behind the favored class changes, the addition of capstones, and the removal of dead levels.
If this ability only works if the musketeer/samurai has levels in fighter, then it means the devs made a conscious choice to go completely against their previously stated design goals and not just encourage multi-classing, but practically DEMAND a 1-level fighter dip in order to use the class's abilities.
Its in the paragraph after thar one. At lvl 8 he focuses then has improved critical for 8 minutes.