AM LIKE 10,000,000/0.5. BARBARIAN AM ALWAYS WINNER.I remember the good old days when barbarians were derided as the class that was criminally underpowered.
What exactly is AM BARBARIAN's record vs wizards, again?
:P
So AM BARBARIAN would you have a rogue in your warband of martial guys who smunch casty faces in?
Rogues are definitely in need of some love. Their lower BAB really hurts them considering that they're a melee class, and also terribly MAD.
So AM BARBARIAN would you have a rogue in your warband of martial guys who smunch casty faces in?AM LIKE 10,000,000/0.5. BARBARIAN AM ALWAYS WINNER.I remember the good old days when barbarians were derided as the class that was criminally underpowered.
What exactly is AM BARBARIAN's record vs wizards, again?
:P
If by Rogue you mean Urban Wild Stalker Ranger, then I'm sure he would.
I'm amazed those archetypes are compatible. But they are, so you can have a roguish ranger who can rage.
And smash casty face.
(Don't forget Skirmisher, so they aren't casty too)
So AM BARBARIAN would you have a rogue in your warband of martial guys who smunch casty faces in?AM LIKE 10,000,000/0.5. BARBARIAN AM ALWAYS WINNER.I remember the good old days when barbarians were derided as the class that was criminally underpowered.
What exactly is AM BARBARIAN's record vs wizards, again?
:P
AM DEPEND. BARBARIAN HAVE MELEE SPELL SUNDER COVERED. AM HAVE ARCHER BUDDY WHO AM SPELL SUNDER WITH BOW AT RANGE.
HOW ROGUE AM SPELL SUNDER CASTY?
So AM BARBARIAN would you have a rogue in your warband of martial guys who smunch casty faces in?AM LIKE 10,000,000/0.5. BARBARIAN AM ALWAYS WINNER.I remember the good old days when barbarians were derided as the class that was criminally underpowered.
What exactly is AM BARBARIAN's record vs wizards, again?
:P
AM DEPEND. BARBARIAN HAVE MELEE SPELL SUNDER COVERED. AM HAVE ARCHER BUDDY WHO AM SPELL SUNDER WITH BOW AT RANGE.
HOW ROGUE AM SPELL SUNDER CASTY?
BARBARIAN AM HAVE WILD STALKER URBAN SKIRMISHER RANGER. RANGER AM HAVE MANY ANIMAL FRIENDS, MAKE GOOD MOUNT.
BARBARIAN AM HAVE WILD STALKER URBAN SKIRMISHER RANGER. RANGER AM HAVE MANY ANIMAL FRIENDS, MAKE GOOD MOUNT.So AM BARBARIAN would you have a rogue in your warband of martial guys who smunch casty faces in?AM LIKE 10,000,000/0.5. BARBARIAN AM ALWAYS WINNER.I remember the good old days when barbarians were derided as the class that was criminally underpowered.
What exactly is AM BARBARIAN's record vs wizards, again?
:P
AM DEPEND. BARBARIAN HAVE MELEE SPELL SUNDER COVERED. AM HAVE ARCHER BUDDY WHO AM SPELL SUNDER WITH BOW AT RANGE.
HOW ROGUE AM SPELL SUNDER CASTY?
SOLD. WHERE AM SIGN?
Rogue Level 10 - Archetype Blademaster (Ulti Combat)
Now that I think about this a little more, doesn't this character give up trapfinding? Wouldn't that essentially invalidate the point you were originally trying to make that the rogue can be the trapfinder, face, AND a strong combatant?
Rogue Level 10 - Archetype Blademaster (Ulti Combat)
Now that I think about this a little more, doesn't this character give up trapfinding? Wouldn't that essentially invalidate the point you were originally trying to make that the rogue can be the trapfinder, face, AND a strong combatant?
No. Well, I mean yes, it does give up Trapfinding.
But his specific instance of the rogue doesn't invalid his general point.
Rogue Level 10 - Archetype Blademaster (Ulti Combat)
Now that I think about this a little more, doesn't this character give up trapfinding? Wouldn't that essentially invalidate the point you were originally trying to make that the rogue can be the trapfinder, face, AND a strong combatant?
No. Well, I mean yes, it does give up Trapfinding.
But his specific instance of the rogue doesn't invalid his general point.
Also dip one level into trapper ranger, you also get better saves, +1 BAB, better weapons and better armor and one favored enemy.
Also dip one level into trapper ranger, you also get better saves, +1 BAB, better weapons and better armor and one favored enemy.
But doesn't that get us back not the issue of if a class requires you to multiclass to "work" then there is something wrong with it that was brought up in one of the numerous other fix rogues threads.
Rogue Level 10 - Archetype Blademaster (Ulti Combat)
Now that I think about this a little more, doesn't this character give up trapfinding? Wouldn't that essentially invalidate the point you were originally trying to make that the rogue can be the trapfinder, face, AND a strong combatant?
No. Well, I mean yes, it does give up Trapfinding.
But his specific instance of the rogue doesn't invalid his general point.
Actually, I think it does.
If no one can produce a rogue that's actually good at all those things, much less do it with, say, 15 point buy stats, appropriate WBL, and no reliance on several party members being built in X specific way that's more to your advantage than theirs, then yeah, I think that would pretty well hint that point may not be valid.
I like the idea of rogues. I wish they could be great at all those things in one single-classed character, but I don't think they actually can be. It's worse than the Schroedinger's Wizard argument, because the wizard legitimately can swap out his whole load of spells day by day, whereas if a rogue isn't built to have trapfinding he just flat out doesn't have trapfinding on any day.
SILLY ROGUE. BARBARIANS ALSO SNEAKY. RAGE FOR DEXTERITY. ALSO BARBARIAN GOOD WITH PEOPLE. TOOK RANGER LEVEL. PEOPLE ARE FAVORED ENEMY. ALSO BARBARIAN CAN EVEN USE PROPER GRAMMAR WHEN HE CHOOSES TO. HAVE LINGUISTICS AS CLASS SKILL. DIPLOMACY TOO. AM BARBARIAN GET ALL CREDIT. NOT KILL SO MANY CASTIES ON ROAD IF ALSO BARBARIAN NOT INCITE ANTI-CASTIE RIOT AND DRIVE THEM OUT OF CITY.
But doesn't that get us back not the issue of if a class requires you to multiclass to "work" then there is something wrong with it that was brought up in one of the numerous other fix rogues threads.Also dip one level into trapper ranger, you also get better saves, +1 BAB, better weapons and better armor and one favored enemy.
Oh sure it does, i was just saying how it could be done (somewhat) with the current situation.
(And I'm pretty sure I can out dps your ranger ;p, but that's just the power gamer raising I had).
Unless his ranger is a total gimp, you're probably wrong from about level 6 onward.
The ultimate problem is that the rogue, like the cleric and the 3.5 fighter, is simply too broad of a concept to work as a single class. PF fixed the fighter quite a bit, and the cleric can still stand on it's own, but roguish concepts for the most part can simply be done better as archetypes of the other base classes than as a separate base class.