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I'd like to see something in the book:
So: The consensus, is that the thematically built PF Races, which wered designed using this point buy system, are not equal to eachother in power, and therefor should not all cost 10 points, because it makes the building blocks inappropriately priced.
One poster vehemently wanted that baseline 10 point cost.
Now, this gives me an idea: what if we could have it?
I'd like to put forth the following proposal:
"Standard" races, at several intervals in power.
So you want a straight 10 point race set? Here it is. Halflings would get a boost, dwarves would get a small nerf.
15 Points? everyone gets boosted, but not necessarily by the same amount. Whatever it takes to get to 15 pts. Aasimar may get a 1pt boost, or they may be deemed "close enough".
Do the same for 20, 25, 30, 35,and 40.
It would mean one page for each of the standard races, but I'd be okay with that, and it would give us standard races races that are on the same power level with whatever say, giants and outsiders, that the GM allows.
I'd like to at least see 10, 15, 20, 25.
Meh? I'm not necessarily opposed, but I don't think the page cost would be worth it. It would make a great web enhancement, though.
Morty probably hit the nail on the head. Poor nail.
I don't think they'll find space for that in the book itself - space seems to be at a premium, and this will probably be low priority.
We'll probably not even see a web enhancement.
However, I'm quite sure someone will do the work and post it.
In fact, I might do it myself, because the idea rocks.
What I'd go with:
Standard races - the way they're now.
Standard Power Level races - 10 points all around.
Powerful standard races: 15 points
Advanced standard races: 20 points
Powerful Advanced standard races: 25 points
"Monstrous" standard races: 30 points.
I'd include ideas to incorporate each version into a world where the regular races abound, have an explanation why they're that way.
Generally, 15p would be "heroic", 20 would be "paragons", 25 "exceptional" and 30 "proto-race".
Example: Elves:
Powerful(15): These are simply heroic elves favoured by fate or luck or genetics with exceptional abilities. Their racial affinity for magic is strengthened and their long lifespan grants them knowledge
New Abilities:
Lesser Spell Resistance (2): SR 6+Character level
Spell-Like Ability (1): true strike 1/day.
Skill Bonus (2): +2 to any Knowledge skill chosen at character creation.
Advanced (20): These are noble elves, stemming from ancient bloodlines and still reminiscent of the greatness of bygone ages. They have more advantageous ability modifiers and their racial agility results in greater speed.
New Abilities (In addition to Heroic)
Advanced Modifiers (4): Racial modifiers change to +4 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
Fast (1): Their base speed is 40.
Exceptional (25): More than just noble, these elves are almost royal. The racial swiftness and agility, as well as their magical affinity, are even more pronounced
Quick Reactions (2): Gain Improved Initiative as bonus feat
Greater Spell Resistance (1): SR increases to 11+level
Spell-Like ability (2): True Strike goes from 1/day to 3/day
Monstrous (30):
These proto-elves are rarely if ever seen outside of the fabled elven homeworld. They are truly eternal and have a strong affinity with languages.
Fey (0): These elves are, in fact, fey creatures instead of humanoids, though they retain the elf subtype.(fey usually costs 1 RP but includes low-light vision)
Linguist Array (1): Start with Common, Elven, any language is bonus.
Gift of Tongues (2): +1 to Bluff, diplomacy, learn two languages for each rank in Linguistics
Magical Linguist (2): (see playtest document for details)
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Hmm. Yep. That's the basic Idea.
So you can field an Elf in a party of Dragons without feeling pathetic.
But as a secondary purpose: Since the races aren't *REALLY* all worth 10 points (some a little more, some a little less) I'd include a straight 10 point version, for the people who want perfect baseline races.
I'm thinking after reading this, that it could be expanded on and revised a bit, and I imagine I'll be revising it for my home games, by adding more stuff that isnt included in the rules. Things like Fast Healing, Regeneration, etc.
I very much like the idea they're pursuing here, but the idea needs a bit more polish, and another playtest. :)
Hmm. Yep. That's the basic Idea.
So you can field an Elf in a party of Dragons without feeling pathetic.
But as a secondary purpose: Since the races aren't *REALLY* all worth 10 points (some a little more, some a little less) I'd include a straight 10 point version, for the people who want perfect baseline races.
I'm thinking after reading this, that it could be expanded on and revised a bit, and I imagine I'll be revising it for my home games, by adding more stuff that isnt included in the rules. Things like Fast Healing, Regeneration, etc.
I very much like the idea they're pursuing here, but the idea needs a bit more polish, and another playtest. :)
I was shooting from the hip. In addition to polishing, it needs planing and, indeed, basic cutting out of a log.
Before I do any of these, I'll wait for the final version of the rules, as I think it will be much expanded and changed.
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I was shooting from the hip. In addition to polishing, it needs planing and, indeed, basic cutting out of a log.
Before I do any of these, I'll wait for the final version of the rules, as I think it will be much expanded and changed.
I was being polite. In a couple other threads I've started to go into how much polish I think it needs. I think the pricing of items needs a complete overhaul. The pricing is inconsistent, and they need to price the individual items instead of pricing packages of items. Additionally, its not specific enough. There are many items worth less than 1 point, but more than 0. Likewise there are many items that are being rounded up or down too much due to this.
Additionally, there are many things that should have negative prices, as they give a weakness or drawback of some sort.
So yeah, it needs planning, measuring, measuring, measuring, cutting, filing, and polishing.
I was shooting from the hip. In addition to polishing, it needs planing and, indeed, basic cutting out of a log.
Before I do any of these, I'll wait for the final version of the rules, as I think it will be much expanded and changed.
I was being polite. In a couple other threads I've started to go into how much polish I think it needs. I think the pricing of items needs a complete overhaul. The pricing is inconsistent, and they need to price the individual items instead of pricing packages of items. Additionally, its not specific enough. There are many items worth less than 1 point, but more than 0. Likewise there are many items that are being rounded up or down too much due to this.
Additionally, there are many things that should have negative prices, as they give a weakness or drawback of some sort.
So yeah, it needs planning, measuring, measuring, measuring, cutting, filing, and polishing.
Ah, so you were talking about the ruleset itself, not about my suggestions of elves - which is what I thought you meant.
You're right, this system needs work. I think they should double all prices and allowances and then go from there. It would make the system more granular without introducing half points. It would also mean that they could more easily split up stuff like "elven immunities".
And you're right: The packages need to go, unless they're really tied to each other rather than loosely grouped by race. The elven immunities are a good example. While it makes sense to group them for the elven entry, forcing another race to take both doesn't. Neither does calling them "elven immunity". While we might argue that the sleep immunity might be an elven thing, I can easily see another race that can be put to sleep but that is resistant to enchantments - and all that without pointy ears.
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Ah, so you were talking about the ruleset itself, not about my suggestions of elves - which is what I thought you meant.
You're right, this system needs work. I think they should double all prices and allowances and then go from there. It would make the system more granular without introducing half points. It would also mean that they could more easily split up stuff like "elven immunities".
And you're right: The packages need to go, unless they're really tied to each other rather than loosely grouped by race. The elven immunities are a good example. While it makes sense to group them for the elven entry, forcing another race to take both doesn't. Neither does calling them "elven immunity". While we might argue that the sleep immunity might be an elven thing, I can easily see another race that can be put to sleep but that is resistant to enchantments - and all that without pointy ears.
Yep. The packages need to go. Now. Packages for convenience sake at the end? thats handy, and if they have the page space, they should include some (such as Size packages, Type Packages, etc.), but only if they have the page space after the "actual" rules.
As for the scale? I'm not sure double is granular enough.
I'd say triple, at bare minimum.
For the sake of the playtest? I'd say go x10. If you find thats more granularity than you need, then AFTER the playtest, divide by 10, and multiply by whatever number you need for a reasonable amount of granularity. You'll get more accurate price assessments, and you can always round it at the end.
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I'd say triple, at bare minimum.
For the sake of the playtest? I'd say go x10. If you find thats more granularity than you need, then AFTER the playtest, divide by 10, and multiply by whatever number you need for a reasonable amount of granularity. You'll get more accurate price assessments, and you can always round it at the end.
+1, increased granularity would improve things. A large number of the Dwarven abilities in particular aren't quite worth 1 point.
As for the "rebalancing" of the races. Well you could just do that with the book once it's released if it means that much to you. They're close enough for me that I don't really care.
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As for the "rebalancing" of the races. Well you could just do that with the book once it's released if it means that much to you. They're close enough for me that I don't really care.
Fair enough. I was thinking the races at different totals would be useful for people who are running more advanced races. theyre going to include prebuilt races anyway, right?