Reaper Miniatures
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I've been asked to join a group as the 5th player. They feel they already have the basics covered - Fighter, Druid, Healing Alchemist, and Inquisitor. I wanted to try out barbarian, as I haven't gotten to play one yet, but also find myself concerned over the lack of rogue (because of the lack of Disable Device and trapfinding).
3pp are not allowed, any Paizo book is, but I cannot find any traits that grant me those as class skills, either, so that I could be a trappy barbarian - nor could I find any archetypes that allowed these.
Are we nerfed without trapfinding/disable device?
keep in mind that it is possible the alchemist has disable device covered, and its just a matter of disabling magical traps (all traps can be found without trap finding and non-magical ones can still be disabled).
I'd say talk to your dm and see how important he things it is. Some dms have tons of traps, some have non or almost none. It may just not be needed.
That said, if you decide you want it you have a few additional options besides rogue, and Archivist (from the APG) Bard can disable magic traps, and so can an Urban (APG) Ranger. I dont know of any feats or traits that would make it possible though.
It depends on the campaign/GM, but generally I think as long as one or more people in the party have high Perception you can do without it.
No matter what you decide to play the party is missing something it otherwise could have, and in most campaigns I wouldn't consider trapfinding to be one of the most painful things to miss.
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Ways to get trapfinding:
1) 1st level rogue (a bunch of archetypes give that up)
2) 3rd level urban ranger
3) 1st level trapper ranger
4) 1st level seeker oracle*
5) 1st level seeker sorcerer*
6) 1st level crypt breaker alchemist
7) 2nd level detective bard*
8) The 2nd level bard/alchemist/wizard spell Aram Zey's focus (too bad the duration is only 1 minute per level)
9) 2nd level archevist bard*
10) 6th level archeologist bard*
*those 5 get trapfinding in everything but the name
I've been asked to join a group as the 5th player. They feel they already have the basics covered - Fighter, Druid, Healing Alchemist, and Inquisitor. I wanted to try out barbarian, as I haven't gotten to play one yet, but also find myself concerned over the lack of rogue (because of the lack of Disable Device and trapfinding).
3pp are not allowed, any Paizo book is, but I cannot find any traits that grant me those as class skills, either, so that I could be a trappy barbarian - nor could I find any archetypes that allowed these.
Are we nerfed without trapfinding/disable device?
In my gaming group, finding magical traps has always been very important. We feel that magical traps are a basic staple of the game - along with non-magical ones of course.
Dispel Magic works of course, but theose are usually limited and better used elsewhere. Unless you play with a DM that allows Magic Marts.
And the idea that a PC with a lot of HP's can simply set them off is just silly.
In PF anyone can find magical traps, you need trapfinding in order to be able to try to disable it.
In PF anyone can find magical traps, you need trapfinding in order to be able to try to disable it.
Of course you are right. It was the disabling I meant to focus on.
In PF anyone can find magical traps, you need trapfinding in order to be able to try to disable it.Of course you are right. It was the disabling I meant to focus on.
Depends on the DM. Most think Explosive Runes is the be all end all of magic traps, with some using triggered Fireballs and Lighting Bolts. That is why some people think Trapfinding is useless. A Barbarian can take that to the face and laugh.
Me? I seen a trap that triggered a Teleport, a couple miles up and a couple miles away from the dungeon. Fall damage, and you were separated from the group. Now that was a magic trap. If your DM knows how to play an inteligent and prepared Big Bad, trapfinding is a must.
Me? I seen a trap that triggered a Teleport, a couple miles up and a couple miles away from the dungeon. Fall damage, and you were separated from the group. Now that was a magic trap. If your DM knows how to play an inteligent and prepared Big Bad, trapfinding is a must.
+1
Are we nerfed without trapfinding/disable device?
No, not really.
Some GMs wouldn't even add traps if the party doesn't have a trapfinder.
Ask the other players if they've run into any traps. Then ask if they were important traps, like, in-combat traps. If they say there were traps, you might want to play a character with high perception who just looks for traps. If they say there were important traps, ask how many. If they're finding a ratio of 1 fight to 1 fight with traps, then play a rogue. Otherwise, you're just going to be disappointed.
A rogue versus traps is auto-win and brush aside, sadly. Not many traps are that dangerous past level 5, and if you play a rogue, you'd just auto-see and auto-disable them with very little fanfare.
A rogue with disable device is like someone else min-maxing for the highest Craft: Vuvuzela score they can get. Nobody else cares, really. I think it'd be more fun to see a cool trap go off and die to it or react to it than it would be to just clatter a die on the table and move on with no explanation.
Also, by rolling a rogue, you become the default target for many traps, which is lame because you're also placing yourself directly in harms way for when the GM decides "Paul the Rogue auto-winning on every trap is stupid-- I'll up the DC by 10!" Some traps will ask for Fort or Will saves-- good luck.
Are we nerfed without trapfinding/disable device?No, not really.
Some GMs wouldn't even add traps if the party doesn't have a trapfinder.
Ask the other players if they've run into any traps. Then ask if they were important traps, like, in-combat traps. If they say there were traps, you might want to play a character with high perception who just looks for traps. If they say there were important traps, ask how many. If they're finding a ratio of 1 fight to 1 fight with traps, then play a rogue. Otherwise, you're just going to be disappointed.
A rogue versus traps is auto-win and brush aside, sadly. Not many traps are that dangerous past level 5, and if you play a rogue, you'd just auto-see and auto-disable them with very little fanfare. It's like playing the BMX Bandit alongside the Angel Summoners. Yeah, you can do like, a triple-hop wheelie deelie... but nobody will be paying attention.
Tragic, just tragic. What has this game come to. Why when I was a young adventurer I used to have to crawl 10 miles backwards on my belly just so I could attempt to detect and disable a magical trap, and then if I failed - 10 bolts of electric, fire-acid would hit me in the privates... well you get the idea. I am doing that grognard thing. :-)
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Ways to get trapfinding:
1) 1st level rogue (a bunch of archetypes give that up)
2) 3rd level urban ranger
3) 1st level trapper ranger
4) 1st level seeker oracle*
5) 1st level seeker sorcerer*
6) 1st level crypt breaker alchemist
7) 2nd level detective bard*
8) The 2nd level bard/alchemist/wizard spell Aram Zey's focus (too bad the duration is only 1 minute per level)
9) 2nd level archevist bard*
10) 6th level archeologist bard**those 5 get trapfinding in everything but the name
11) 1st level sandman bard*
If the OP is preferring a barbarian, though, I'd say go for it. If it turns out that your party is hurting from traps after the fact, grab a level of trapper ranger and keep being the barbarian.
Even better a gnome barbarian (that way someone in the party can pick them up and throw them into traps, safer for everyone else.)
That's it... I am having a heart attack right now... argh!!
I would be more worried about not having a wizard or cleric, as nice as druid and alchemist are. One level in rogue for anyone and you don't have to worry about disable device anymore.
Why 1 level of rogue? Apart from the fact that there is a 2nd level spell who gets you trapfinding, for a martial character it would be so much better to dib one level trapper ranger that way you get 1st favored enemy, +2 to fort and ref and you don't lose BAB.
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Reaper Miniatures
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I would be more worried about not having a wizard or cleric, as nice as druid and alchemist are. One level in rogue for anyone and you don't have to worry about disable device anymore.
I had considered sorcerer, and might look at sorc/barbarian multiclassing, as some sort of shamanistic warrior. I really want to be an Ulfen Barbarian, though. My bad nordic accents need to be used!