Can someone feel if he is being threatened?


Rules Questions


I guess that if an enemy is adjacent to you then you can feel that this enemy is threatening you and if you provoke an attack of opportunity then he can attack you if can and want to.

Now.... if someone have a higher reach due to size, weapon, special abilities or other suck as Combat Patrol feat. Does the player know or feel if the square he is in is being threatened by an enemy.

Example a Wizard is 15 ft away from a fighter Lv20 with Combat Patrol. The Fighter is medium size and the wizard could not tell if the fighter could reach him if he cast a spell.


I believe so. About the only way i think you couldn't know if you were being threatened was if the threatener were invisible.

Grand Lodge

What exactly is the point of your question? Does a wizard know if a fighter has a feat if the fighter hasn't demonstrated the ability? PROBABABLY not. Can Mr. Wizard choose to cast defensively anyway? Yes, and take the chance on losing the spell if he fails the roll.

Grand Lodge

I usually expect that characters know they will provoke for an action unless something hides that information. (opponent is invisible, has the abberation bloodline power to threaten 15ft without appearing to)

For Combat Patrol, it depends on if the fighter displays the ability to threaten beyond his reach. If setting his patrol zone has no obvious tells, then the wizard should not know until the fighter demonstrates the ability.


I think that you always know when are being threatened except for cases like invisibility.


Is the wizard flanked by the fighter?

It was argued in another thread here that one of the fluff explanations for not being able to ignore a threatening enemy to concentrate on another is that the flanker is constantly harassing you, denying you the ability to move freely and thus causing you to be easier to hit (and vulnerable to sneak attacks).

The description of Combat Patrol implies the fighter is moving throughout the area, he even takes AoO for doing so. It's not clear to me if the fighter is actually threatening everyone within his area simultaneously.

Does he count as flanking everyone? He should, he threatens them. Does he automatically take AoOs for moving throughout his area, even if he doesn't make an AoO himself?
If his enemies aren't aware that he threatens them and he's not moving close enough to hamper them, is there any possible fluff justification for treating them as flanked?


This is not explained in the rules. Therefore it is GM's call.

"Now.... if someone have a higher reach due to size, weapon, special abilities or other suck as Combat Patrol feat. Does the player know or feel if the square he is in is being threatened by an enemy."

I would say that in general, yes. With Invisibility (or a situation where the wizard is otherwise unaware of the attacker), I would say no.

Combat Reflexes feat where the attacker has already made one AoO this round is a borderline case. I would rule no.

Again, these are all GM's call.


Axl wrote:

This is not explained in the rules. Therefore it is GM's call.

"Now.... if someone have a higher reach due to size, weapon, special abilities or other suck as Combat Patrol feat. Does the player know or feel if the square he is in is being threatened by an enemy."

I would say that in general, yes. With Invisibility (or a situation where the wizard is otherwise unaware of the attacker), I would say no.

Combat Reflexes feat where the attacker has already made one AoO this round is a borderline case. I would rule no.

Again, these are all GM's call.

I second that it is a GM's call, but were it in my game, my vote leans towards yes. Mainly due to the nature of threatened. If you are threatened you grant a bonus to someone flanking because you are watching and defending both sides, if you are unaware of being threatened from both sides, then how would the other opponent get a bonus.


Onishi wrote:
I second that it is a GM's call, but were it in my game, my vote leans towards yes. Mainly due to the nature of threatened. If you are threatened you grant a bonus to someone flanking because you are watching and defending both sides, if you are unaware of being threatened from both sides, then how would the other opponent get a bonus.

Flanking: When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn.

Flanking and Threatening do not depend on the opponents awareness. They just happen when conditions are met.

As to a target determining the reach of an opponent, I would have it depend on what the person knows. Is it a human with a longsword? Then you know it's reach is normally 5'. Is it a human with a halberd, and you have the slightest idea of what a polearm is? Then you know it can usually reach 10'. Is it a giant, which you've been fighting all day long? Then you've figured out they have a natural reach of 10'. Is it a giant, the first one you've ever seen, and you failed your knowledge roll, and you've never seen anything larger than a medium creature? Then you may not know it's got reach until it hits someone.

After a certain point, most adventurers would figure out some basic rules. If it's large and on four feet, it probably can't reach farther than me. If it's large and tall, it can probably reach further. If it's really damn huge, has wings, and is breathing fire, it might be best to keep even more distance from those teeth.


Sometimes I feel threatened when people say "Dude why are you drinking a beer with lunch?"


Grick wrote:


Flanking: When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn.

Flanking and Threatening do not depend on the opponents awareness. They just happen when conditions are met.

As to a target determining the reach of an opponent, I would have it depend on what the person knows. Is it a human with a longsword? Then you know it's reach is normally 5'. Is it a human with a halberd, and you have the slightest idea of what a polearm is? Then you know it can usually reach 10'. Is it a giant, which you've been fighting all day long? Then you've figured out they have a natural reach of 10'. Is it a giant, the first one you've ever seen, and you failed your knowledge roll, and you've never seen anything larger than a medium creature? Then you may not know it's got reach until it hits someone.

So flanking is just magic? A guy standing over there, 15' away, who you're not worried about because you don't know he's using the Combat Patrol feat makes you easier to hit, without you paying any attention to him or him interacting with you in any way?

It's just something undetectable that happens when the conditions are met.


thejeff wrote:
So flanking is just magic?

No, flanking still works in an Antimagic Field.

thejeff wrote:

A guy standing over there, 15' away, who you're not worried about because you don't know he's using the Combat Patrol feat makes you easier to hit, without you paying any attention to him or him interacting with you in any way?

It's just something undetectable that happens when the conditions are met.

Correct, just like the invisible guy standing behind you with a knife can let the rogue in front of you use sneak attack.

You could houserule some kind of perception check for flanking, or make rules about ignoring someone in order to deny flanking (perhaps at the expense of provoking an AoO) but that's not how it works as written, and I personally don't see the point in giving rogues even LESS ways to get sneak attack (or land hits in general).


Grick wrote:
thejeff wrote:
So flanking is just magic?

No, flanking still works in an Antimagic Field.

thejeff wrote:

A guy standing over there, 15' away, who you're not worried about because you don't know he's using the Combat Patrol feat makes you easier to hit, without you paying any attention to him or him interacting with you in any way?

It's just something undetectable that happens when the conditions are met.

Correct, just like the invisible guy standing behind you with a knife can let the rogue in front of you use sneak attack.

You could houserule some kind of perception check for flanking, or make rules about ignoring someone in order to deny flanking (perhaps at the expense of provoking an AoO) but that's not how it works as written, and I personally don't see the point in giving rogues even LESS ways to get sneak attack (or land hits in general).

So, no attempt at explanation or justification. There is no in-character reason. It's in the rules. So that's that.

Can the guy flanked by the invisible guy at least intuit there's someone behind him when the rogue sneak attacks?

Actually, I'd probably house rule that you can tell when someone is threatening you. They have to be taking some kind of action, waving pointy things in your general directions, keeping you from moving as freely as otherwise, etc. You can tell you are threatened. You can tell invisible threateners are in the square, but not perceive them directly. You can tell where someone can reach because he is reaching. This distraction keeps you from ignoring him.

I'd also say that this wouldn't apply to Combat Patrol. The language in the feat description does say "threaten", but it also specifically says he can make AoOs and doesn't mention flanking. Since threatening already includes AoOs and flanking, why mention one but not the other?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:

I usually expect that characters know they will provoke for an action unless something hides that information. (opponent is invisible, has the abberation bloodline power to threaten 15ft without appearing to)

For Combat Patrol, it depends on if the fighter displays the ability to threaten beyond his reach. If setting his patrol zone has no obvious tells, then the wizard should not know until the fighter demonstrates the ability.

I agree with this notion. Being threatened is, in my opinion, obvious to everyone involved (exceptions abound as noted by TriOmegaZero).

I prefer this interpretation as it keeps players from feeling cheated and makes many of the above-mentioned abilities more worthwhile to have (as you can trick people out).

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