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Just wondering if there were any explicit rules on touch spells that affect multiple targets, and movement during the casting. Specifically if you could use your Std action to cast the spell, and then your move action to touch your allies moving up to your base move so you can reach them all. Just finding it tactically difficult to pull off the communal spells since none of them increased the range to "no two targets more then 25' apart" which is the typical buff range.
I have seen a ruling on this, but I can't remember where, unfortunately. As I recall, it stated that 1) you couldn't actually move, so the allies needed to be within reach when you cast the spell and 2) you could touch up to six allies in a given round.
Hopefully someone with time and research skills will come along and give you a definitive answer...
Just wondering if there were any explicit rules on touch spells that affect multiple targets, and movement during the casting. Specifically if you could use your Std action to cast the spell, and then your move action to touch your allies moving up to your base move so you can reach them all.
Range: Touch: "Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action."
Touch Spells in Combat: "In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll."
Holding the Charge: "You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action."
So, from what I can tell, you can perform a group high-five (full round), or you can run over and tag someone (standard or free), but you can't run about and duck-duck-goose everyone (touch on the run?).
And there you go - someone with research skills. Well done, Grick.
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If I'm understanding you correctly, Grick, I think I disagree a little.
Range: Touch: "Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action."
I read this as, normally, when casting one of these spells, you can cast and touch 6 people as a single standard action. No mention of being able to move mid-cast, though, so I'd say you have to be able to reach them from your square.
Touch Spells in Combat: "In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll."
Here, rather than calling casting-and-touching a single standards action, the touching becomes a free action. This is nice because now you can cast/move/touch, or cast/5'step/touch + a move action somewhere. You can still touch all 6 friends because free actions are ... free. And free actions can be taken mid-move, so you can move around and touch anyone in your movement range. Basically, it's the top quote plus the ability to move around and touch everyone. (The only problematic part is the "you can touch one friend"; given the context of the rest of the sentence - that you can automatically touch yourself or a friend, but need to roll to touch an enemy - I'm choosing to read "one" as "a" and not as a strict limit.)
Holding the Charge: "You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action."
The touching one friend seems to only be if you've held the charge. Now that the spell has been cast, you've lost your opportunity to touch 6 in the same action, so you can only touch 1 as a standard, or 6 as a full round. Yes, the same thing that cost you a move action last round (move + 6 free touches) now costs you a full round (move + 6-touches-as-a-standard = full round). That's the trade off for holding the charge. I'd say this is supported by the sentence after my bolded sentence in the first paragraph.
So, from what I can tell, you can perform a group high-five (full round), or you can run over and tag someone (standard or free), but you can't run about and duck-duck-goose everyone (touch on the run?)
So I think you can run around and touch people a la duck, duck, goose if it's the casting round, but after that, it's going to cost you more actions.
I think Touch Spells in Combat is fairly clear: You can move and touch one person.
I think Holding the Charge if fairly clear: 1 is standard, 6 is full-round.
I think Range: Touch contradicts itself, and is confusing. Specifically: "You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell."
On one hand, it says "as part of casting" which, to me, suggests that if you cast the spell as a standard action, for example, Water Walk, you can touch them as part of that standard action, which means you can't move and they must be within reach.
On the other hand, it says they must be touched in the same round you finish casting, which implies you could take a move action if you have one left.
I think the second hand doesn't make as much sense. If you cast the spell, it doesn't make sense that the spell hasn't taken effect a full move action later while you're running around. You cast it, touch yourself, then walk over some water to touch some other guys, who then can water walk also? Or you cast, touch yourself, splash through the water, touch some guys, then when you're done everyone waterwalks? There's a weird delay there that doesn't make (fluff) sense to me.
I think the intent is:
While casting the spell: Touch 6 adjacent friends, or move and touch one.
With held charge: Touch 1 standard, or 6 full-round. (No moving while touching, just an action at target(s) within reach)
What I take away from all this is to avoid using touch spells.
It's complicated. Even without the touching-many-friends part. Just look at all the Spellstrike threads. But being complicated doesn't mean we should ignore it, otherwise no one would use combat maneuvers, multiclass characters, or anything involving more than one hand. The key is to find a fair place to rule the things that are unclear, and if the table enjoys it, then it doesn't really matter what the rules say.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I was meaning more just for myself - there are still so many things I haven't done yet since starting Pathfinder (like, say, "play a druid", which I'm going to do for the first time this Saturday) that I'd just as soon skip some of the fuzzier stuff until I've at least tasted most of the less-fuzzy stuff. :D
Also:
It's complicated. Even without the touching-many-friends part.
Were you trying to set up a "that's what she said"? Because that's gold, right there!
I use Grick's interpretation at my table also. It is the one that makes the most sense to me as a valid interpretation.
Check out the table "Actions in Combat". It has "Use a touch spell on up to six friends" listed as a full-round action.
What I take away from all this is to avoid using touch spells.I think metamagic rod of reach is the way to go if you want to use it in combat and you can't get your allies to stay near you.
/Raise thread...
So the party is low level, a lot of the cleric's capacity is diminished, but they have a moment to catch their breath...
And the cleric gathers everyone about (His favorite thing to say when being introduced to anyone regardless of sex is "Too old!") and casts Cure Light Wounds.
It isn't during a combat, but according to the descriptor, it's touch. So he heals up everyone with a friendly d8 plus his level (max five).
Is this RAI? Or just RAW?
Beercifer,
Cure Light Wounds only cures one target per casting, so if your cleric is gathering five people around him, it would take five rounds and five castings of the spell to heal everyone. If you want to heal multiple targets at the same time, then you need Channel Positive Energy.
This is what I thought. It would negate the utility for spells like Cure Light Wounds Mass or the supernatural channeling ability. Thanks.
So, could my cleric in one round cast protection from evil, move up to an ally 10 feet away, touch him, and complete my move to return to the spot I started from? It doesn't make sense to me that I couldn't touch an ally as a free action on the move...
So, could my cleric in one round cast protection from evil, move up to an ally 10 feet away, touch him, and complete my move to return to the spot I started from? It doesn't make sense to me that I couldn't touch an ally as a free action on the move...
"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally."
But: "You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target."
If that's taken as a complete list of options, then by excluding "while moving" means you must do it either before or after the move. This seems more balanced, as giving someone free quasi-spring attack for touch spells doesn't make sense. (Just wait until someone does a drive-by Bestow Curse)
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So, could my cleric in one round cast protection from evil, move up to an ally 10 feet away, touch him, and complete my move to return to the spot I started from? It doesn't make sense to me that I couldn't touch an ally as a free action on the move..."You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally."
But: "You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target."
If that's taken as a complete list of options, then by excluding "while moving" means you must do it either before or after the move. This seems more balanced, as giving someone free quasi-spring attack for touch spells doesn't make sense. (Just wait until someone does a drive-by Bestow Curse)
I think in all things spell casting the assumption is the action is non-trivial. So touching a target isn't simply touching, maybe it is anointing with oil, or marking a black spot on a foe. This is why it consumes and action, and may require an d20 roll. It is, and I hate to say it in these terms, but a "lesser" std action, so you can often do it as a part of casting the spell itself, but if the charge is held, it is considered "more complex" then just a quick tag your it.
