What do you guys think of the Kindle Fire from Amazon?
I think it will put an Android device in more hands than any other tablet out there will. It is ideally suited for those people out there that primarily want a e-reader and light web browsing. I haven't found the tech specs yet but I doubt the Fire is very fast or optimized for HD video playback. I do know that the Fire doesn't have a camera, GPS or USB ports. The Fire will also never have a version that has 3g/4g/LTE connectivity
So if you want a inexpensive reader/browser to use around the house or keep the kids entertained while running errands this is actually a good choice.
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I think it will put an Android device in more hands than any other tablet out there will. It is ideally suited for those people out there that primarily want a e-reader and light web browsing. I haven't found the tech specs yet but I doubt the Fire is very fast or optimized for HD video playback. I do know that the Fire doesn't have a camera, GPS or USB ports. The Fire will also never have a version that has 3g/4g/LTE connectivity
So if you want a inexpensive reader/browser to use around the house or keep the kids entertained while running errands this is actually a good choice.
Never is a strong word. But, that's actually ok with me anyway. Until they make a tablet that is truly as powerful and useful as a laptop, I don't want one anyway.
However, as an e-reader/web browser, this is affordable and looks very functional. But since I already have a Kindle 3, I think I can wait. At least until they bring out the 10" version next year, depending on what they add to that.
I think it's going to be an excellent entry point into tablet entertainment.
Unlike others, I don't think the Fire is competition for the iPad, but it is certainly competition for the Nook - in fact, the Fire could absolutely kill the Nook Color. Barens & Noble has some serious work to do to stay competitive.
Edit - of course, no one is actually USING the Fire yet, so if it ends up being a bug-ridden, un-user-friendly device, all bets are off.
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I think it has a chance. It'll be an excellent device for the modding community. I just wish Amazon hadn't gone the same route that B&N went with the nook and taking Android and locking it down. Also would have been nice if it had been based on Honeycomb 3.1 (with support for 7" screens) instead of using Gingerbread 2.3 which is designed for phones. Who knows, with Ice Cream Sandwich coming out in a couple weeks maybe they'll have an update utilizing that and if not, the modding community will.
Interesting. I still want an iPad 2, but this warrants another look.
I think it's going to be an excellent entry point into tablet entertainment.
Unlike others, I don't think the Fire is competition for the iPad, but it is certainly competition for the Nook - in fact, the Fire could absolutely kill the Nook Color. Barens & Noble has some serious work to do to stay competitive.
Edit - of course, no one is actually USING the Fire yet, so if it ends up being a bug-ridden, un-user-friendly device, all bets are off.
Everyone still thinks of the Nook Color as an eReader, not a tablet (see the first posts of this thread for an example). The Nook will be unaffected.
The Fire is competition for the iPad because that is what it is marketing itself as AND what the media is pushing it as (which is more important than anything). The iPad is an awfully priced device (you can get full feature laptops for cheaper than an iPad) and the Fire should do some harm to SOME of its market (the iPad, like the rest of the iFamily, is sold on its brand, not its price point, features, or usability).
Everyone still thinks of the Nook Color as an eReader, not a tablet (see the first posts of this thread for an example). The Nook will be unaffected.
The Fire is competition for the iPad because that is what it is marketing itself as AND what the media is pushing it as (which is more important than anything). The iPad is an awfully priced device (you can get full feature laptops for cheaper than an iPad) and the Fire should do some harm to SOME of its market (the iPad, like the rest of the iFamily, is sold on its brand, not its price point, features, or usability).
True, media influence is huge.
However, why would anyone buy a Nook Color when you can get the Kindle Fire that does everything Nook Color does - and much more, but costs less? Amazon's books, music, and video streaming + the Fire should prove to be an awesome combo.
However, as an iPad owner, the 7" Fire (or really any 7" tablet) can't compete with a 10" screen. (The 10" Fire, however, if it ever sees the light of day, will be interesting.)
I also disagree that the iPad is awfully priced. If it were, then other 10" tablets (such as the GalaxyTab) wouldn't be similarly priced. (I think the cheapest 10" tablet is $399.)
Comparing tablets and laptops is apples to oranges. Tablets are not meant to be laptops. They are used differently. That's why many people with laptops also have tablets.
However, as an iPad owner, the 7" Fire (or really any 7" tablet) can't compete with a 10" screen. (The 10" Fire, however, if it ever sees the light of day, will be interesting.)
That makes the Fire more portable - it is smaller, thinner, lighter.
I also disagree that the iPad is awfully priced. If it were, then other 10" tablets (such as the GalaxyTab) wouldn't be similarly priced. (I think the cheapest 10" tablet is $399.)
Your logic doesn't work here. Other Android tablets are using the iPad as the price point, not setting a new one like the Kindle Fire.
Comparing tablets and laptops is apples to oranges. Tablets are not meant to be laptops. They are used differently. That's why many people with laptops also have tablets.
How, exactly, are they used differently?
Many people with laptops are technophiles or Apple fanboys.
Agreed...the Fire will target those bottom iPad2 WiFi purchasers.
A 7" inch device at the Gaming table isn't too bad...leaves more room for the Cheetoes and Soda :-P
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I like a 10 inch screen or close to that. My reason for it is the size of a sheet of paper.
Don't have to pinch in to be able to read it or out to see a whole page for art work. Just a matter of flipping the pages.
As to the price point...if you look at the Kindle DX with a screen similar to the 10" tablets/Ipad its $379 and that is non color. SO really they would be close to the iPad price point when they do the 10 inch screen.
Comparing tablets and laptops is apples to oranges. Tablets are not meant to be laptops. They are used differently. That's why many people with laptops also have tablets.How, exactly, are they used differently?
Many people with laptops are technophiles or Apple fanboys.
Tablets are excellent at delivering content very quickly - information, entertainment (audio/video/e-books), social media, and games. They are faster, more portable, instant "on", and usually have very sharp/hi-def screens.
Laptops are more designed to be production machines - used for creating content (word processing, powerpoint, etc.). While they can be used for the same thing as a tablet, laptops are less competent in delivering such content quickly and they are bulkier, making certain experiences (such as watching a video or reading a book on them)less portable.
Now, you *can* use a tablet to generate content and you *can* use a laptop for entertainment, but neither is a strong suit of the device when compared to the other.
Do you own a tablet and/or a laptop?
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I come from a slightly different school. I like Amazon products (I own a Kindle 3), but I also own a 7" Nook Color and a 10" Asus eee Pad (running Honeycomb). I have found reasons to keep all three devices but there is a caveat.
The Kindle 3 is great for reading on road trips or any place where I want to read. As much as I love my color tablets, for reading in brightly lit places (car rides, outdoors, etc.), the e-Ink screen really can't be beat. It is a one-trick pony though.
The Asus eee Pad is fantastic for acting as a netbook replacement and on-the-fly device, but cannot replace my PC/laptop (you try typing the next great American novel on it). At $399 it's price point is very reasonable, and it's flexible in how I use it and the screen is really the perfect size. I use my Asus daily and love it. I have my entire collection of Pathfinder PDF and ePub files on it (being a Venture Captain does have some perks), and I've even GMed directly from it.
The Nook Color though is a bit of a strange duck. I've rooted it and put CyanogenMod on it, which has opened up its usability (I read Kindle books on my Nook), but the screen is just a hair too small. It's fine for ePubs, book reading, and movie watching, but it's just not quite big enough to handle a rulebook screen. This has limited its usability overall. I don't use it much anymore but it's around "just in case."
The Fire is an interesting product for me though because of its integration with Amazon services, and this is where it will outshine the Nook (but won't outshine a true tablet). Access to books, all your cloud files, and having a powerhouse like Amazon behind it for app support means it will be better supported than the Nook, but like the Nook it won't fill the entire niche that the "true" tablets fill. It's screen is still too small, and the inability to out-of-the box run all the applications is a major problem. I do not believe apps like "summoner", "dice bag", "initiative tracker", and "PFRD" will be available, probably ever, which will limit it's usability.
On the other hand, if you don't mind rooting (something I find to be too much of a pain in the butt to do regularly, and I've done it now on three tablets), it might be a VERY inexpensive alternative.
Tablets are excellent at delivering content very quickly - information, entertainment (audio/video/e-books), social media, and games. They are faster, more portable, instant "on", and usually have very sharp/hi-def screens.
"Instant" on is cool and all but it is neither instant nor that important. Laptops don't take that long to boot up unless you have too much crap loading at startup, which is where most of the "boot up" time actually is between pressing "on" and using it. Moreover, laptops have higher definition screens by default due to having larger screens.
Laptops are more designed to be production machines - used for creating content (word processing, powerpoint, etc.).
Or portable consumptions of high-end content. Especially more useful for items like powerpoint and spreadsheets as they have better connectivity input and output.
Also, the ability to use PC games.While they can be used for the same thing as a tablet, laptops are less competent in delivering such content quickly and they are bulkier, making certain experiences (such as watching a video or reading a book on them)less portable.
What? That's illogical. A laptop can fit in your lap or on a tiny table. It fits in the exact space a tablet would have to occupy for its use. It's no less portable or portably usable than a tablet - they may weigh more, but come with better portability methods, like backpacks. People in our gaming group have laptops and a couple have tablets. To use the tablet, they have a stand that takes up almost as much room as a laptop to make it easy to use naturally. Unless you have a massive gaming/developer laptop with like a 18+" screen, a laptop is a very small space investment.
The best use out of a tablet compared to a full laptop is eBooks and at that point, why not get a much cheaper, more portable eReader?
Cartigan - read MisterSlanky's comment above yours for more info on tablets from someone who is clearly NOT an "apple fanboy" as you put it.
I take it you don't own a tablet.
But getting back to the 7" Fire vs. the iPad, I personally find 7" too small for reading documents (such as PDFs) as well as an immersive movie/TV viewing - and I'll bet others will as well. (7" is fine for novels, but not, say, Pathfinder PDFs.) However, a 10" Fire with the right price point could indeed be a threat to iPad.
Interesting times.
Cartigan - read MisterSlanky's comment above yours for more info on tablets from someone who is clearly NOT an "apple fanboy" as you put it.
I said technophile or Apple fanboy, funny how you focus on the latter part.
I take it you don't own a tablet.
That isn't relevant to anything I actually said.
I don't even like using spreadsheets on my laptop without an external mouse and sometimes a keyboard, I wouldn't want to touch it with a tablet.But getting back to the 7" Fire vs. the iPad, I personally find 7" too small for reading documents (such as PDFs) as well as an immersive movie/TV viewing and I'll bet others will as well.
I've watched movies on my 3.5" phone and had no problems. If you want "immersive movie/TV viewing," the iPad isn't the place to go either.
(7" is fine for novels, but not, say, Pathfinder PDFs.)
As I didn't check, I couldn't tell you the size I prefer to read PDFs at so I don't know if I would care about the difference between a 10" and 7". They are both probably too small and I rather use a 20" monitor.
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As I didn't check, I couldn't tell you the size I prefer to read PDFs at so I don't know if I would care about the difference between a 10" and 7". They are both probably too small and I rather use a 20" monitor.
Well, if we're going the other way, 27" is awesome for reading 2 pages at a time of the Pathfinder PDFs.
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As I didn't check, I couldn't tell you the size I prefer to read PDFs at so I don't know if I would care about the difference between a 10" and 7". They are both probably too small and I rather use a 20" monitor.Well, if we're going the other way, 27" is awesome for reading 2 pages at a time of the Pathfinder PDFs.
Why read, get someone to read it to you while feeding you peeled grapes.
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Why read, get someone to read it to you while feeding you peeled grapes.As I didn't check, I couldn't tell you the size I prefer to read PDFs at so I don't know if I would care about the difference between a 10" and 7". They are both probably too small and I rather use a 20" monitor.Well, if we're going the other way, 27" is awesome for reading 2 pages at a time of the Pathfinder PDFs.
Well, as long as the masseuse is working the feet - it's all good.
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(7" is fine for novels, but not, say, Pathfinder PDFs.)As I didn't check, I couldn't tell you the size I prefer to read PDFs at so I don't know if I would care about the difference between a 10" and 7". They are both probably too small and I rather use a 20" monitor.
You would be surprised. 10" really is suitable for reading. In portrait mode it's easy to read assuming you're not entirely blind (which if you are, tablets probably aren't for you) and in landscape (where you have to scroll) it's actually a hair wider than the physical page.
Neither is true in 7".
Well, if we're going the other way, 27" is awesome for reading 2 pages at a time of the Pathfinder PDFs.
I can't wait until a low-res, reasonably priced, 27" tablet is available to use as my game board. I hope I don't have to write the software for that either.
Well, if we're going the other way, 27" is awesome for reading 2 pages at a time of the Pathfinder PDFs.I can't wait until a low-res, reasonably priced, 27" tablet is available to use as my game board. I hope I don't have to write the software for that either.
What's wrong with Microsoft Surface? ;)
What's wrong with Microsoft Surface? ;)
If I'm ever on Cribs, you'll see us playing Pathfinder around one. :)
It will be interesting to see how the Apps change things (with or without rooting). Without 3rd party Apps the iPad would have been a funny indulgence by Apple at making a bad e-reader.
No one has show off how the Amazon App store Productivity section of Apps will function on the Fire, and App makers working under Apple's restrictions have done some amazing things. I expect similar results out of the Fire.
I wonder if we'll see one with wider access to file formats. Is it clear how far Amazon will let "official" Amazon App store makers go in adding functionally?
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On the Usefulness of Tablets
*Nods at Andrew Tuttle*
Personally the iPad 9.7" form factor is exactly the right size for me and what I need. If I didn't have my iPad 2 this year I would have likely had a nervous breakdown. I've got so much work material (mostly spreadsheets and PDFs) that if I don't have it on me and I get asked a question I can only give a blank look back as an answer. It's not just Read-Only with those spreadsheets either, as most are dedicated to equipment/student tracking. The biggest advantage has been as a portable screen/interface through VNC.
I've been able to leave my Admin laptop in my office attached by Ethernet so it can push updates and do other automated tasks, while I remote in from my much lighter iPad when I need a bit more "power" then the iPad can muster.
I've also found an oddity with using a remote touch screen like this. I've been doing software updates and installs lately... and unfortunately not every EduBabble company that produces software provides nice easy installer packages for remote Admin install. I've been force to fall back to manual manipulation to ensure it gets done right. *eerrr* Because of all the "I agree", "click to proceed" boxes I've been having to press I found that doing so from the Touch Screen of the iPad was faster then either manually going to the computers or by mouse and keyboard at my admin computer. *Tap, Tap, Tap* done *double tap* to load next computer, with very little arm strain due to repetitive mouse movements.
The real joy was when I rediscovered my left hand. No, seriously. With mice and keyboard we get trained to primarily use the right hand as the interaction method with onscreen icons. A touch screen doesn't care. Once you shake that habit, anything that needs to be "tapped" on the left side of the screen is done with the left hand, while the right hand covers the right. Nearly halved the time it was taking me to actually do those manual updates.
I think it will put an Android device in more hands than any other tablet out there will. It is ideally suited for those people out there that primarily want a e-reader and light web browsing. I haven't found the tech specs yet but I doubt the Fire is very fast or optimized for HD video playback. I do know that the Fire doesn't have a camera, GPS or USB ports. The Fire will also never have a version that has 3g/4g/LTE connectivity
So if you want a inexpensive reader/browser to use around the house or keep the kids entertained while running errands this is actually a good choice.
Never is a strong word. But, that's actually ok with me anyway. Until they make a tablet that is truly as powerful and useful as a laptop, I don't want one anyway.
However, as an e-reader/web browser, this is affordable and looks very functional. But since I already have a Kindle 3, I think I can wait. At least until they bring out the 10" version next year, depending on what they add to that.
Not to mention that every other Kindle product has eventually upgraded to 3G connectivity. I think the precedent has already been set.
Amazon is loosing $10 on each Kindle Fire.
Amazon is loosing $10 on each Kindle Fire.
The idea is to make the money back on sales of Amazon Kindle eBooks, apps from the app store, and the like. Which is as good as strategy is not - it's how most console makers do it.
Amazon is loosing $10 on each Kindle Fire.
It will be interesting to see its impact on the iPad, but what will it do to the already depressed sales of the other tablets? For those who don't want an iPad - will they buy the Fire over another android tablet?
Amazon is loosing $10 on each Kindle Fire.It will be interesting to see its impact on the IPad, but what will it do to the already depressed sales of the other tablets? For those who don't want an iPad - will they buy the Fire over another android tablet?
I think many will. I would love an Ipad or other tablet, I just can't afford one. The Fire is going to be a Christmas present for my wife. It will be our first tablet and if we like it we will consider upgrading in a year. Then the choice will be 10" Fire, Ipad or equivalent. Hopefully by then the Fire will force tablet prices down.
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I think many will. I would love an Ipad or other tablet, I just can't afford one. The Fire is going to be a Christmas present for my wife. It will be our first tablet and if we like it we will consider upgrading in a year. Then the choice will be 10" Fire, Ipad or equivalent. Hopefully by then the Fire will force tablet prices down.Amazon is loosing $10 on each Kindle Fire.It will be interesting to see its impact on the IPad, but what will it do to the already depressed sales of the other tablets? For those who don't want an iPad - will they buy the Fire over another android tablet?
A 10" Fire won't be that far below an iPad though. Look at a Kindle DX for comparison to a regular Kindle then compare it to the iPad.
According to most of what I've seen, the 10" fire will likely retail at $299 (as of current). The announcement of the fire was part of the reason the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was dropped to $299 recently.
It's the 7 inch Galaxy Tab not the 10.1.
According to most of what I've seen, the 10" fire will likely retail at $299 (as of current). The announcement of the fire was part of the reason the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was dropped to $299 recently.It's the 7 inch Galaxy Tab not the 10.1.
I was gonna say - if it was the 10.1 then even I would get one! (And I love my iPad2.)
Well, I hope the Fire turns out to be good as my hubby has said he's getting me one for my birthday.
I still have my original Sony reader but it's horrible for PDFs and I haven't used it in a while. I do feel that it hit the paperback size just right. Now if only it was more user-friendly.
The Fire sounds nice, though.
I debated for a minute if I wanted to start a new thread or resurrect this one. I've had my Fire for about a week now. I'm over all pretty pleased with it, and it's PDF support. That being said, I could've been happy with my Kindle Keyboard if it could just render more complex PDFs more quickly so take that with a grain of salt. Held horizontally the page fits rather well, and either way zooming and panning is quick enough to be a reasonable tactic.
This is probably gonna tip me into going all digital with my RPG books now. The savings are always nice, and after moving this past Summer, I really didn't want to add anything more to my book collection to spare my back the horrors. (For most text I'd already switched with the Kindle, but RPG and other game books in PDF were a bit of a hold out.)
Neo, how fast are page turns for the full core rules (both forward and backward)?
I like my fire so far. I'm still learning the ins and outs and have determined that my fingers are way too fat.
I wish it worked with a stylus.
Funniest bit: upon reading the directions I discovered that if you get it wet you should not put it in a microwave to dry it.
Is this really an issue?
I wish it worked with a stylus.
{checks Fire specs} Amazon lists it as having a capacitive screen, so a standard capacitive stylus for $10 or so should work. It won't be pressure sensitive, angle-detecting, or as precise as a Wacom digitizer, but it should let you doodle, make your signature, and poke links/onscreen keyboard. If you know someone with an stylus tablet or phone, ask them if you can try their stylus on your Fire.
Funniest bit: upon reading the directions I discovered that if you get it wet you should not put it in a microwave to dry it.
Is this really an issue?
It can be. You are supposed to dry iOS devices in the microwave. Android devices, like the Fire, are to be dryed in the clothes dryer. I am not responsible if you actually try this.
upon reading the directions I discovered that if you get it wet you should not put it in a microwave to dry it.
Is this really an issue?
You know someone would have tried it eventually...
after moving this past Summer, I really didn't want to add anything more to my book collection to spare my back the horrors.
I've been there, brother; I feel your pain. Of course, I'm just way too much of a bibliophile to know when to quit.
It hasn't stopped me from getting a Kindle keyboard, though, which I love; I am currently drooling over the Fire. From what you said, neookami, it seems to have the PDF thing down; anyone have anything to say about how it handles other media types (audio, video)?
In the U.S. the manufacturer is responsible for the stupidity of the consumer. Most RV owner's manuals state that cruise control is NOT an autopilot, and you can't set it, then go in the back to make coffee.Funniest bit: upon reading the directions I discovered that if you get it wet you should not put it in a microwave to dry it.
Is this really an issue?
That's true. It does lead to some very wierd instructions...like noting the carry holes in the sides of a heavy cardoard box are not actually handles. Because they might break, causing the box to fall on someone's feet, who would then sue anyone connected with the box and it's content.
Sigh. Never underestimate the stupidity [and greed] of human beings.
Neo, how fast are page turns for the full core rules (both forward and backward)?
It's pretty quick, the only gotcha is that it takes it about a second to render once you stop turning or panning. It renders everything a tad faster and blurry until then. (Opposed to the previous Kindles where rendering a complex page [and RPG books tend to be pretty complex] could take ten seconds or more period.)
From what you said, neookami, it seems to have the PDF thing down; anyone have anything to say about how it handles other media types (audio, video)?
Audio and video are more the reason they made the Fire than anything else. It integrates incredibly smoothly with Amazon's video service and their cloud player and mp3 store. Though you're not limited to just using those. The build in speakers are decent, not really great, but given the size they're forced to be not bad. If I was using it for audio/video outside of home though I'd definitely have headphones with me.
The price is nice, though that being said I'd be more inclined to recommend another Android tablet if you're not prone to shop from Amazon's digital catalog. You're not limited to Amazon's stuff, but it's pretty much front and center all over.