| eljava77 |
Currently running a game where a wizard was forced to pick up a pick and use it for a few rounds.
Turns out it was a Cursed Pick. As such he is now forced to use the pick in combat instead of another weapon. This could cause major havoc for his spell casting as I have several different interpretations.
1) As the cursed item forces him to employ the pick over any other weapon he cannot draw his bonded sword, and so cannot cast spells.
2) he CAN draw his bonded sword, as he is not in melee, but cannot cast spells because his other hand is holding a pick.
or
3) he can draw his bonded weapon and cast spells, because he is not in melee.
I could go a number of different ways on this. But want to see what other people think.
| stringburka |
If it's based on the cursed sword, it's 1.
In that case, you've got a few options:
1. Get stilled spells, either those that naturally lack a somatic component (very few) or through the feat).
2. Take the fail to cast risk. The DC is 20 + spell level, so depending on level, he'll have about a 25%-50% chance to successfully cast some of his spells.
He should definately reprepare his spells to long-term buffs so he can try and fail a few times safely.
mcbobbo
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Currently running a game where a wizard was forced to pick up a pick and use it for a few rounds.
Turns out it was a Cursed Pick. As such he is now forced to use the pick in combat instead of another weapon. This could cause major havoc for his spell casting as I have several different interpretations.
You'll want the specifics of that curse. Some cursed weapons/items in fact work this way, but many simply cannot be discarded. In this version of the game it usually depends on the item description itself.
1) As the cursed item forces him to employ the pick over any other weapon he cannot draw his bonded sword, and so cannot cast spells.
Bonded items don't work this way. First of all, they only come into play once per day, and only for their specific, listed effect.
] A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard's level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's opposition schools (see arcane school).prd
That's all it does. It is not your only conduit to casting spells.
2) he CAN draw his bonded sword, as he is not in melee, but cannot cast spells because his other hand is holding a pick.
That might be an issue, but I don't think it is unless you attack with it. For sure we have "You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component", but there's also "Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively." That last, modifying word implies at least that it can be carried around with only one hand, freeing the other. If you're compelled to use the item when you melee (see above for the 'if' part), there's nothing I can see that makes you melee all the time. So spells should be unhindered most of the time.
For example, it lists 'staff' among the examples of a bonded item. But if the Wizard never has a hand free when using a staff, then this would make a colossally bad selection, and there's no warning of such...
3) he can draw his bonded weapon and cast spells, because he is not in melee.
Yes, probably this, for all the reasons above.
| stringburka |
eljava77 wrote:1) As the cursed item forces him to employ the pick over any other weapon he cannot draw his bonded sword, and so cannot cast spells.Bonded items don't work this way. First of all, they only come into play once per day, and only for their specific, listed effect.
[url=http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/wizard.html#_wizard wrote:That's all it does. It is not your only conduit to casting spellsprd[/url]]
A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard's level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's opposition schools (see arcane school).
That's incorrect.
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.
Since it's a pretty high DC, especially at the levels where a curse would be hard to get rid of, he'll REALLY want to wield his bonded weapon - and so, will have no free hands at all.
Diego Rossi
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Ask your GM what are his rules for destroyed cursed magic items.
Technically if the weapon was destroyed (not simply broken) it would be possible to discard it as it will lose all its magical properties.
Damaging Magic Items
...
Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost. Magic items that take damage in excess of half their total hit points, but not more than their total hit points, gain the broken condition, and might not function properly.
I have been unable to find the right quote, but you need a magic weapon with a enchantment of equal or higher power to damage a weapon.
| Mogart |
The Direct solution:
Chop off your hand and get regenerate cast on you.
Bad stuff: Checks and Penalties galore.
Good Stuff: You didn't have to hold onto the cursed item anymore.
Regenerate will have your hand back to you in no time, or you can pry your hand off of the pick, and re-attach it in no time.
Diego Rossi
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Another low level solution is to bond a magic ring or amulet as your bonded item if you own one.
If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.
You will not get rid of the cursed weapon, but at least you will be capable to cast your spells.
@ Mogart
Your solution will not work. The weapon isn't glued to his hand. He is "simply" forced to use it.
Chop away the hand and the curse will still work. And at low level getting a remove curse is way easier than regenerating his hand.
Diego Rossi
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As the question wasn't "how I get rid of it", but "what will be the effect", it think that 1) is partially right.
When you want to draw your bonded weapon to cast your spells you instead draw the pick.
You aren't forced to attack with the pick or put 2 hands on it, so you are still capable to cast spells but you incur the risk of failure as you aren't using your bonded item.
Quote from the cursed sword: "The sword always forces that character to employ it rather than another weapon. The sword's owner automatically draws it and fights with it even when she meant to draw or ready some other weapon."
It force you to use it, but it don't force you to attack in melee.
Artanthos
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Currently running a game where a wizard was forced to pick up a pick and use it for a few rounds.
Turns out it was a Cursed Pick. As such he is now forced to use the pick in combat instead of another weapon. This could cause major havoc for his spell casting as I have several different interpretations.1) As the cursed item forces him to employ the pick over any other weapon he cannot draw his bonded sword, and so cannot cast spells.
2) he CAN draw his bonded sword, as he is not in melee, but cannot cast spells because his other hand is holding a pick.
or
3) he can draw his bonded weapon and cast spells, because he is not in melee.I could go a number of different ways on this. But want to see what other people think.
/sigh
Stuff like this is why I have a familiar, not an item. Something happens to the familiar, I can still cast.
Until he gets the curse removed, it should prove an interesting in-game problem though. I would say every time he reaches for his sword he's going to grab that pick instead.
| Treantmonk |
/sigh
Stuff like this is why I have a familiar, not an item. Something happens to the familiar, I can still cast.
Until he gets the curse removed, it should prove an interesting in-game problem though. I would say every time he reaches for his sword he's going to grab that pick instead.
All I can say is, it feels good to be right! Familiar's over bonded item!
That said, my advice would be to make the cursed pick your bonded item. It's magical, so it qualifies.
Get the curse removed later on.
| Bothaag the Bardbarian |
Artanthos wrote:/sigh
Stuff like this is why I have a familiar, not an item. Something happens to the familiar, I can still cast.
Until he gets the curse removed, it should prove an interesting in-game problem though. I would say every time he reaches for his sword he's going to grab that pick instead.
All I can say is, it feels good to be right! Familiar's over bonded item!
Yeah, I can tell we've all read "Lord of the Rings".
| Sekret_One |
that could actually be sort of beneficial.. no one can steal it then, because when you swing it just.. pops back into your hand :) hehehe
The perfect anti-theft bonded item.
-S
I always wondered if magic weapons with the the 'returning' effect were dropped/disarmed the wielder could just yell "I meant to do that!" and have it fly back to him.
Back @ the OP: Yeah your wizard is kinda bummed at the moment. Since the bonded item is that sword, both his hands are going to be full when he tries to cast a spell, making somatic components impossible.
The short term solution really is to shift the bond to that cursed pick... funny enough. You can probably do that faster and cheaper than breaking the curse at early levels.
Sort of like an arcane shotgun wedding.
LazarX
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Artanthos wrote:/sigh
Stuff like this is why I have a familiar, not an item. Something happens to the familiar, I can still cast.
Until he gets the curse removed, it should prove an interesting in-game problem though. I would say every time he reaches for his sword he's going to grab that pick instead.
All I can say is, it feels good to be right! Familiar's over bonded item!
That said, my advice would be to make the cursed pick your bonded item. It's magical, so it qualifies.
Get the curse removed later on.
Just for that I'm inventing the Cursed Familiar Blob. (CFB for short)
The blob is an ordinary round object until it's touched by an arcane spellcaster with a bonded familliar. Once activated it turns into a sticky blob that eats your familliar. Once it's done this it latches on the the deceased familliar's bond and becomes your new familliar. It's pretty useless, smelly , and fairly moronic. Killing the Blob Familliar isn't that hard but you're subject to the attendant penalties of losing your familliar, and no matter what you do about it, the Blob forms back every night. Until the curse that binds the Blob to you is broken, the arcane bond can not be removed.
Brought to you by the Arcane Item Bond Supremacy LeaguE.
| SwnyNerdgasm |
Treantmonk wrote:Artanthos wrote:/sigh
Stuff like this is why I have a familiar, not an item. Something happens to the familiar, I can still cast.
Until he gets the curse removed, it should prove an interesting in-game problem though. I would say every time he reaches for his sword he's going to grab that pick instead.
All I can say is, it feels good to be right! Familiar's over bonded item!
That said, my advice would be to make the cursed pick your bonded item. It's magical, so it qualifies.
Get the curse removed later on.
Just for that I'm inventing the Cursed Familiar Blob. (CFB for short)
The blob is an ordinary round object until it's touched by an arcane spellcaster with a bonded familliar. Once activated it turns into a sticky blob that eats your familliar. Once it's done this it latches on the the deceased familliar's bond and becomes your new familliar. It's pretty useless, smelly , and fairly moronic. Killing the Blob Familliar isn't that hard but you're subject to the attendant penalties of losing your familliar, and no matter what you do about it, the Blob forms back every night. Until the curse that binds the Blob to you is broken, the arcane bond can not be removed.
Brought to you by the Arcane Item Bond Supremacy LeaguE.
See I would use this in my game, good work
| Sekret_One |
Color me amazed. A single, mid-paragraph phrase really makes bonded items suck I guess.
I thought I read that as casting 'the' spell, not 'every' spell.
It's a pretty big limitation. The extra and spontaneous spell is pretty fantastic, though.
I would really be reluctant to make the arcane bond a 'hand using' item like a weapon or a wand, simply because it eats up a somatic hand. It messes up all kinds of stuff you don't readily think about... like trying to cast while on a ladder (I hold my arcane sword and wave this hand and Whoooaooa). A real RAW GM might consider such spell casting to be 'two hands' if grappled... meaning impossible and not just hard.
Getting a free master worked weapon isn't worth it. Keep your hands free and bond a ring.
House Rule Idea
If the item took up a hand slot, like a weapon or wand, I wish waving it around would fulfill the somatic component requirement.
| Tharg The Pirate King |
Well I dont see why they would loose ability to cast spells? The Sword that is bonded is still being worn. The description clearly states that a wizard must either have his bonded item held or worn to be able to cast without a check. So what is the problem? Do not read too much into the situation where a persons sword that is on them and being worn is not somehow actually being worn. It is and therfore satisfies the requirements for the caster. Break down the rule first, and you see it.
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. There is a period at the end of a line, this means that this part is different then the rest. It applies to using the item to cast that 1 additional spell.
If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly. this is for the casting part and as you see the object can be held or worn .
So while they can not cast their 1 additional spell they can still cast spells.
LazarX
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Well I dont see why they would loose ability to cast spells? The Sword that is bonded is still being worn. The description clearly states that a wizard must either have his bonded item held or worn to be able to cast without a check. So what is the problem? Do not read too much into the situation where a persons sword that is on them and being worn is not somehow actually being worn. It is and therfore satisfies the requirements for the caster. Break down the rule first, and you see it.
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. There is a period at the end of a line, this means that this part is different then the rest. It applies to using the item to cast that 1 additional spell.
If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly. this is for the casting part and as you see the object can be held or worn .
So while they can not cast their 1 additional spell they can still cast spells.
It's pretty clear that in the case of a bonded weapon, hanging on your belt is not good enough. Wielded means in your hand ready to start the hacking buisness. In the case of a staff having one hand wrapped around it is sufficient leaving the other hand free for casting.
Lots of wizard like the sexiness of having an arcane bonded weapon, the downside is that outside of a staff, casting without penalty means casting aside all attempts at being subtle. But then again if you're the mage who bonds with a sword instead of a more wizardly implement, then subtlety is not your bag anyway.
| Sekret_One |
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded.
How does 'weapons must be wielded' become "worn or held?" The sword cannot be in the scabbard.
Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level.[i/] If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.[i]A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared.
It hasn't even mentioned that the bonded item gives you one free spell a day the whole time it's talking about the drawback. The concentration check complications applies to all spells cast without the bonded item. It doesn't outright say it, but I don't think you could even attempt to use the 1/day spell without the item.