So I am hoping to have moderator ruling on this, because I feel like I am getting severly hosed on this.
I have a 9th lvl gunslinger that has a single shot pistol with the Reliable enhancement, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, and is using alchemical charges for a Free Action reload. Now my DM is trying to tell me that I don't get all three attacks per round as I can only get one free action. Even when I get to lvl 11 and am awarded with three normal attacks, I can still only have two. But the ranger in the group gets to have his three attacks with his bow and his Rapid Shot feat. Am I the only one that feels like my character should have its aloted number of attacks?
+1 to you
unfortunately free actions are a number per round = dm's discression.
i'd argue for dex# of free actions a round.
This is one of the reasons I put out a list of my take on controversial rules on day one of a campaign. Your GM should have told you his limits on free actions previously, and his bias towards reloading a bow/vs gun.
By the way is he stating you can not use the same free action repeatedly, or more then one free action period? If it is the first, perhaps pick up quick draw and some throwing daggers to get that extra attack in.
Consider the following text
"Ammunition: Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), darts (for blowguns), or sling bullets (for slings and halfling sling staves). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading (as noted in their descriptions). Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost."
So it would seem that the DM is being inconsistent as one can not get more than one attack in a round even if using a bow as bows as I recall require two hands to fire so one can not be holding arrows to fire later and thus can presumably draw at most one arrow per round.
Well I suppose that one could get two attacks on the first round but you know what I mean.
WWWW I just feel that my character is being hated on, and one of the reasons I am getting is that it is the equipmeent that I am using. So a single shot pistol alots one reload. But if you are only given one free action per round, and you burn it reloading, then even with a double barrel weapon, it goes 3 shots first round, and then two shots after. There is absolutely no way to get my aloted attacks by those rules.
So here is free actions straight from the Core Book, "Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the numbers of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarly incur attacks of opportunity."
From the Paizo website, "Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM."
Both state an action that takes very little time. Say something like removing an arrow from your quiver, nocking it to the bow string, drawing the arrow, and aiming.
I already stated that I am using an alchemical charge which straight from the Ultimate Combat book, "Alchemical Cartridges: An alchemical cartridge is a prepared bundle of black powder with a bullet or pellets, sometimes with more exotic material added, which is then
wrapped in paper or cloth and sealed with beeswax, lard, or tallow. There are many types of alchemical cartridges, the simplest being the paper cartridge—a simple mix of black powder and either pellets or a bullet. Alchemical cartridges make loading a firearm easier, reducing the time to load a firearm by one step (a full-round action becomes a standard action, a standard action becomes a move action, and a move
action becomes a free action), but they tend to be unstable. The misfire value of a weapon firing an alchemical cartridge increases as listed in each entry."
So I have to grab the charge from its location, shove it down the barrel, and aim.
I just fail to see how this is slower than what the archer has to do.
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Meudian wrote: So I am hoping to have moderator ruling on this, because I feel like I am getting severly hosed on this.
I have a 9th lvl gunslinger that has a single shot pistol with the Reliable enhancement, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, and is using alchemical charges for a Free Action reload. Now my DM is trying to tell me that I don't get all three attacks per round as I can only get one free action. Even when I get to lvl 11 and am awarded with three normal attacks, I can still only have two. But the ranger in the group gets to have his three attacks with his bow and his Rapid Shot feat. Am I the only one that feels like my character should have its aloted number of attacks?
Your DM hates guns or you; or he doesn't know the rules and is being arbitary. Bows use same action to draw arrow as it takes you to reload gun.
Show him the line in the book about ammunition for bows. If he still denies you then he hates you or guns.
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The DM hates either you or guns or your character or a combinations of them.
Either way there is nothing you can do about it because the number of free actions that can be taken is absolutely up to the DM.
leo1925 wrote: The DM hates either you or guns or your character or a combinations of them.
Either way there is nothing you can do about it because the number of free actions that can be taken is absolutely up to the DM.
However you can point out the archer has the same limit on reloading. If it continues though I would find another group.
Meudian wrote: WWWW I just feel that my character is being hated on, and one of the reasons I am getting is that it is the equipmeent that I am using. So a single shot pistol alots one reload. But if you are only given one free action per round, and you burn it reloading, then even with a double barrel weapon, it goes 3 shots first round, and then two shots after. There is absolutely no way to get my aloted attacks by those rules.
So here is free actions straight from the Core Book, "Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the numbers of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarly incur attacks of opportunity."
From the Paizo website, "Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM."
Both state an action that takes very little time. Say something like removing an arrow from your quiver, nocking it to the bow string, drawing the arrow, and aiming.
I already stated that I am using an alchemical charge which straight from the Ultimate Combat book, "Alchemical Cartridges: An alchemical cartridge is a prepared bundle of black powder with a bullet or pellets, sometimes with more exotic material added, which is then
wrapped in paper or cloth and sealed with beeswax, lard, or tallow. There are many types of alchemical cartridges, the simplest being the paper cartridge—a simple mix of black powder and either pellets or a bullet. Alchemical cartridges make loading a firearm easier, reducing the time to load a firearm by one step (a full-round action becomes a standard action, a standard action becomes a move action, and a move
action becomes a free action), but they tend to be unstable. The misfire value of a weapon firing an alchemical cartridge increases as listed in each entry."
So I have to grab the charge from its location, shove it down the barrel, and aim.
I just...
Well I would have to agree that your character does seem to be being singled out. Both your gun and the bow take the same action to reload and so the rule about one free action a round is not being applied to every character equally. Now perhaps this is because the DM is unaware that bows that the same action to reload as your gun but intentionally or unintentionally I would have to say that the rules are not being applied in a fair way.
Being singled out. Lots of people don't like guns in their fantasy. I have a player in one of my games who unless I stop him tells new players Gunslingers are shit and not a good class, without having read it.
If the DM can't see how much more effort you are already putting in over the Archer (feat and 11gp a shot for the ammo) to get a full compliment of attacks I would probably look for a different DM especially if you've explicitly showed him the rules and that either you and the ranged should be nerfed (and this is a massive nerf especially for a ranged full BAB class like the gunslinger) or neither.
Agreed with everyone else here who indicates that, based on the text for arrows (which I actually had not seen before), there's an unfair limitation. Show the GM this text and see what the result is. You should have one of the following:
1) You're allowed as many attacks with the gun as you have attacks in a round (good)
2) GM decides to limit bow users to two attacks per round as well (bad)
3) GM ignores the passage and still limts your attacks while not affecting bow users (very bad)
The first option is what most people in the thread agree should occur; the second option is pretty harsh, but at least there's fair treatment across the board; the third option is an immediate indication you need to find another group (as arguably the second would be.)
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