Happy birthday! I look forward to meeting you in game once things settle down a bit.
well, folks, i finally got to look at the posts, and had a thought.
What do we think of having a brothel in the city? we already sort of have one, i was thining that we could put up a new "house" and then build a brothel adjacent to it We can indicate that we have plans for this, and then we deem that in Goodwyfe's districs, housing structures must be perminant, and up to "code" and that in order to operate any sort of business there, one must secure a permit.
We set up another house in a different block, and will put up the brothel in it, the water-elf will move there, per an arrangement we make with him, and have the trappers move their tent city there. we can also put up a tavern nice and official there later, and a brewery, so there will be a 4-square block that houses all the woman and booze for our frontier town, and keeps them out of the "respectable" housing districts.
seeing as we have them already, we may as well make it official, and prevent this sort of mixing trouble and ruffel the fewest feathers possible.
Brothels can be necessary especially in a new township where there are as many single males as married ones. But we must have strict laws on how it is run and the conditions that must be met for every girl that works there -- that they are not mistreated, that they are seen by a healer to ensure they are not sick with disease (on a regulated basis), that they are not drugged or coerced etc. I agree the brothel should be relocated to another district, away from the respectable family district. I also agree that the trappers with their 'tent city' should be in the same block as the brothel. In the future, the tavern and brewery can also be placed there.
Permanent housing structures in Goodwyfe's district seems like the plan. The only businesses that should be run from the family district are such things as a healer or a laundry house (strictly for laundry only purposes -- no brothel out in the back), a business type that will benefit a "family community". Having permits for such business sounds reasonable and we then have a formal arrangement and we know what is going on in our village/s.
you wanna suggest something to that effect or shall i?
Also did you mean new district or a new block? We can start the new block of 4 squares imediatley, but a new districs isn't going to happen until we build up the dam a bit and unlock the ones on the other side of the fortress
RE: the dam
So the "Garrison" building halves the cost of building walls, and as we need 200 feet of wall, which equates to 160 bp. buy a 28 bp garrison first, and it will only cost 80 bp.
we could
make the first 40 feet of wall, for 32 bp, unlock the two new districts first, and then the build the garrison, making the total for the dam 96 bp
Or buy the garrison first for 28, and get new districts for 16 bp of wall, totaling 44 bp.
OR we make an Arena for 40, then garrison for 14 bp, The arena is expensive, but if we will be making one we would be saving 14 bp at the end of the day...
Kolgrym would have no opinion regarding a brothel. As such, I'm not going to support nor condemn the idea.
That said, having grown up in Nevada, I'm familiar with placement of such businesses within a community. They're usually clustered together, either on the outskirts of town, where things are less developed and less populated, or in areas of older, run-down neighborhoods. They tend to grow up in an area on their own in response to areas that attract less-savory types. It's not usually a situation a community actively plans to support.
If we decide to formally set an area aside for a brothel, I would recommend reserving the space for a more reliable "franchise"; send word for a Calistrian, with the promise of land on which to found a new temple. Even though some Calistrians tend to embrace their goddess' aspects of trickery and revenge, it might be possible to attract a priest or priestess that is more community-oriented. And in the very least, the village would never be left wanting for honey.
We might also consider supporting a priest of Cayden Cailean, should an officially approved tavern be deemed necessary. Such options might make these additions to the community more palatable to Goodwyfe and those like her.
Any breweries should probably be located outside of town. The methods used in a formal brewery can sometimes prove explosive, if not managed properly. :D
Kolgrym would have no opinion regarding a brothel. As such, I'm not going to support nor condemn the idea.
That said, having grown up in Nevada, I'm familiar with placement of such businesses within a community. They're usually clustered together, either on the outskirts of town, where things are less developed and less populated, or in areas of older, run-down neighborhoods. They tend to grow up in an area on their own in response to areas that attract less-savory types. It's not usually a situation a community actively plans to support.
If we decide to formally set an area aside for a brothel, I would recommend reserving the space for a more reliable "franchise"; send word for a Calistrian, with the promise of land on which to found a new temple. Even though some Calistrians tend to embrace their goddess' aspects of trickery and revenge, it might be possible to attract a priest or priestess that is more community-oriented. And in the very least, the village would never be left wanting for honey.
We might also consider supporting a priest of Cayden Cailean, should an officially approved tavern be deemed necessary. Such options might make these additions to the community more palatable to Goodwyfe and those like her.
Any breweries should probably be located outside of town. The methods used in a formal brewery can sometimes prove explosive, if not managed properly. :D
we have a building template set-up for the books and bonuses, and then beyond that there is a bit of RP style set-up we can do. Ask Dain for the email he sent out about that. We can put these buildings in the corner of the book's district map, but in the RP design, we have the Brewery set far away from population. I personally like the idea of getting a few gods here, especially Cayden Cailean.
If we put up the brothel, and at some point a CG cleric of Calystria shows up, we could use the priestess as the regulator of all such establishments, and give her space in the Temple, when we make it.
If we put up the brothel, and at some point a CG cleric of Calystria shows up, we could use the priestess as the regulator of all such establishments, and give her space in the Temple, when we make ...
By general definition, formal temples of Calistria in non-elven lands are brothels. Space within a temple structure wouldn't really serve the purposes of her clergy. Similarly, priests of Cayden Cailean don't usually spend much time with formal temples either. The Lucky Drunk's houses of worship are usually nothing more than clergy-owned and operated inns and taverns. Alternatively, and something we could consider, they've also been known to base their worship out of breweries; might be a good way to ensure local alchohol production methods don't cut corners.
So a brewery of Cayden Cailean eventually, would be cool, and a good use of that building slot, next to a brothel and tavern.
Or we could put a tannery there, not adjacent to a house square, which would make the place very attractive to a trapper community. Booz, whores, and somewhere to treat skins and such...
dunno what to do about the Calistrians, if we can even find a CG cleric, that is... i think the city is NG, if i recall correctly.
Yes, Saravale is NG.
well, folks, i finally got to look at the posts, and had a thought.
What do we think of having a brothel in the city? we already sort of have one, i was thining that we could put up a new "house" and then build a brothel adjacent to it We can indicate that we have plans for this, and then we deem that in Goodwyfe's districs, housing structures must be perminant, and up to "code" and that in order to operate any sort of business there, one must secure a permit.
We set up another house in a different block, and will put up the brothel in it, the water-elf will move there, per an arrangement we make with him, and have the trappers move their tent city there. we can also put up a tavern nice and official there later, and a brewery, so there will be a 4-square block that houses all the woman and booze for our frontier town, and keeps them out of the "respectable" housing districts.
seeing as we have them already, we may as well make it official, and prevent this sort of mixing trouble and ruffel the fewest feathers possible.
Regarding said brothel
Remember, any building in your town grants you basic bonus's to certain things; stability, economy, and loyalty - this includes a brothel. However, your town enjoys none of these bonuses currently. You don't actually have a brothel - not formally. You cannot tax it, utilize the advantages of it, or gain any specific benefit from it. Currently, it is under the "control" of one of your home owners. All advantages it conveys go directly to him.
This is exactly like Goodwyfe being a gardener - you do not gain bonuses from having "parks" though she has crafted many fine rose bushes on and near her property - Grishnak is selling things an alchemist, and DeVille is running a tavern/saloon.
Formally, these are all merely "houses" that are set up in your "housing district", in which independent citizens have determined they want to be businessmen, and don't want to wait for formally constructed buildings.
It's not all grim, though - people like Sylvath operate a town judicial system which extends beyond a barracks - and Sylvath has used corrective punishment to keep people from breaking the law (nothing more serious then floggings at this time - he won't break the law either). You don't have to pay him, or encourage him, or even set up land for this - any more then you have to create an Alchemist shop for Selendria Grear.
You simply do not gain the formal bonus's from these facilities until the space is formally allocated and the gold/BP has been spent to create them.
So, while you have no brewery, this does not stop people from making mead to sell. While you have no "general store" this does not stop trappers from trading on the streets, and so on.
Having a "casino" could bring you a lot of loot - but despite the fact that DeVille has one set up, you aren't getting a piece of it... yet.
Kolgrym would have no opinion regarding a brothel. As such, I'm not going to support nor condemn the idea.
That said, having grown up in Nevada, I'm familiar with placement of such businesses within a community. They're usually clustered together, either on the outskirts of town, where things are less developed and less populated, or in areas of older, run-down neighborhoods. They tend to grow up in an area on their own in response to areas that attract less-savory types. It's not usually a situation a community actively plans to support.
If we decide to formally set an area aside for a brothel, I would recommend reserving the space for a more reliable "franchise"; send word for a Calistrian, with the promise of land on which to found a new temple. Even though some Calistrians tend to embrace their goddess' aspects of trickery and revenge, it might be possible to attract a priest or priestess that is more community-oriented. And in the very least, the village would never be left wanting for honey.
We might also consider supporting a priest of Cayden Cailean, should an officially approved tavern be deemed necessary. Such options might make these additions to the community more palatable to Goodwyfe and those like her.
Any breweries should probably be located outside of town. The methods used in a formal brewery can sometimes prove explosive, if not managed properly. :D
Another quick point to remember; though Pathfinder "Kingmaker" rules are very strict and formal on how to build a community, I am not.
But, we must follow procedure.
As such, each "district" would have 2 maps. The first map is the formal one to coincides with the actual book - what the town must look like so it is in keeping with the rules.
The second map ties into your own creative juices. Sketching a map of the town, with roads, houses, buildings, designs, and so forth - it may not have your concise, squared streets and so forth, but it would certainly allow you flexibility in being creative.
The advantage/disadvantage to designing a creative map is that it gives your town specific strenths and weaknesses at the same time. So, for example, on the "Formal" map of the town, the town "dump" is located right next to a shrine and the coastline/water.
This is a bad place for a dump in real life, and pretty gross, if you fill up the water and hope to drink out of it.
If someone designs the map on their own, and comes up with what it will look like, on their own, with pretty streets that have the dump on the far side of town - that is much better and more effective. However, when bad guys/threats crop up, problems (such as exploding breweries) can occur that may negatively effect you in ways that are not in the book.
So, I encourage you to be both creative, and mindful of the fact that your creations can have more potential problems then the book, but of course, more potential benefits then the book.
Yes, Saravale is NG.
I seem to recall your patron being Erestil, by the way... though I may be wrong...
Thank for all the birthday wishes. Welcome aboard Kolgrym!
Yes, our city's patron is Erastil.
Because it would be horribly off-topic to post the following in the game thread, I'll post it here.
>_<
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...
* gasp for breathe *
... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
I went to the wrong location; all the fun's to be had at Goodwyfe's place. Kolgrym may be polite and proper for a dwarf, but he's still a dwarf. I bet I could have managed a bodily orchestra that would have caused the lady to turn red with embarrassment. Or rage. Or both.
And then we'd have to open those nice glass windows to left the fumes escape.
<.<
Because it would be horribly off-topic to post the following in the game thread, I'll post it here.
>_<
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...
* gasp for breathe *
... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!I went to the wrong location; all the fun's to be had at Goodwyfe's place. Kolgrym may be polite and proper for a dwarf, but he's still a dwarf. I bet I could have managed a bodily orchestra that would have caused the lady to turn red with embarrassment. Or rage. Or both.
And then we'd have to open those nice glass windows to left the fumes escape.
<.<
Thank goodness she didn't go into the next set of scrolls, then - luckily, though, she had to "expidite" the process... :)
Meanwhile, what do you do with Grishnak, since you get to meet him in person?
Meanwhile, what do you do with Grishnak, since you get to meet him in person?
Waiting for Kae to post first, to be honest. Kolgrym is new to the community, and would naturally hesitate to take the lead in this matter. Additionally, from a player prospective I'm still getting the hang of the group's dynamic; I need to adjust before I start doing things that could potentially cause trouble that would normally be avoided. At least, I want to avoid doing so on accident. :P
Hey, i'm sorry for being so late, i had late dinner-plans then had to run around a bit. just got home and posted. short too...
I will be out all day tomorrow, so no postings from Ariarh. Sorry guys but I need a social life! Ha! ;) I will be back on the boards my Sunday (Northern Hemisphere Saturday) and will catch up on the reading/posting. If the GM needs to NPC Ariarh tomorrow then that is fine with me. Thanks. :)
I will be out all day tomorrow, so no postings from Ariarh. Sorry guys but I need a social life! Ha! ;) I will be back on the boards my Sunday (Northern Hemisphere Saturday) and will catch up on the reading/posting. If the GM needs to NPC Ariarh tomorrow then that is fine with me. Thanks. :)
Well, I may have to do a little playing for you and Bridget then, you know, while you're gone... ;)
I will be out all day tomorrow, so no postings from Ariarh. Sorry guys but I need a social life! Ha! ;) I will be back on the boards my Sunday (Northern Hemisphere Saturday) and will catch up on the reading/posting. If the GM needs to NPC Ariarh tomorrow then that is fine with me. Thanks. :)Well, I may have to do a little playing for you and Bridget then, you know, while you're gone... ;)
Ariarh is TOO busy for playtime. She seems to be spread out across the land trying to play nice with everyone. Ha! Plus, I knew you would say something like this and do you really think Ry would be up for some playing with the sexy Bridget? ;) Khrovin's a possessive man. *chuckles*
We need to revisit the laws of our land. There has been some theorising and suggestions over Skype but we never did sit down as a group and set laws and ratify them.
I agree about more of a constitution should be drafted, and will have input some time soon. but not this morning...
Here are some resources for when the laws are put down.
While all constitional policies, procedures, and concepts can and should be codified and decided on, it should be noted that currently the only existing law/legal issue I am aware of as GM is that a person who works the land is given right to own the land and do with it what they want - provided they commit not "evil" action (as defined loosely in the book via alignment), follows no "evil religion" (again, same clause via "Evil" alignment).
I may have missed something, but - as I understand it - those are the basic ideas/values that the city was founded on.
An elected ruling class which allows people the chance to own land - though the ultimate control or ownership of the land is technically controlled by the council and can (theoretically) allow the council to expel a citizen from the land - though generally this must occur with "due course".
Naturally, I am open to suggestions and eager to see a new charter proposed, with ideas/laws and so forth enacted and in which the council votes.
As an aside - Alaric, while I know you don't have the flexibility to game frequently, perhaps you may be interested in writing a formal "constition" based on the laws you've been reading over - as you are technically the ruler of the council, but are trapped as a de facto NPC for a while - it is logical to assume that "in game" your character could be sitting in the fortress drafting up a policy - which you could theoretically write up in your spare time, if you are wiling, then email it out to the group for ease of convience and see what they think.
However, as there are no such documents for the town in existence now, this suggests to me that the "Trial" of Grishnak (really - the "hearing") will be fairly interesting.
I love the detail everyone's putting forth, but I have to ask: is there always this much text in such a short period of time? I'm having difficulty reading everything; my eyes go squirrelly on me if I spend too much time looking at text on a computer screen. As it is, I'm having to take breaks and rest my eyes every two to three posts, due to their length and the amount of information they hold; I've been working on catching up on last nights dialogues, but I've been at it for over an hour already and I'm only to Ka'etil's post where the group returns to the fortress.
I'm going to have to wait until this afternoon to finish catching up; staring at the screen like this for so long has given me a considerable headache. If this is the norm, I don't think I'll be able to keep up with the rest of the group.
I've been struggling to keep up this past week alone, and it's been a down week for me. Considering how long it takes me to read through the posts, if I can finish a normal day's updates, I won't have the time or energy remaining to contribute.
I love the detail everyone's putting forth, but I have to ask: is there always this much text in such a short period of time? I'm having difficulty reading everything; my eyes go squirrelly on me if I spend too much time looking at text on a computer screen. As it is, I'm having to take breaks and rest my eyes every two to three posts, due to their length and the amount of information they hold; I've been working on catching up on last nights dialogues, but I've been at it for over an hour already and I'm only to Ka'etil's post where the group returns to the fortress.
I'm going to have to wait until this afternoon to finish catching up; staring at the screen like this for so long has given me a considerable headache. If this is the norm, I don't think I'll be able to keep up with the rest of the group.
I've been struggling to keep up this past week alone, and it's been a down week for me. Considering how long it takes me to read through the posts, if I can finish a normal day's updates, I won't have the time or energy remaining to contribute.
Actually, you touch a very important issue for all of us; namely the ammount of posting, as well as the time to read and react, and in a timely manner so that our questions/comments are consistent with the story.
For myself, I enjoy lots of writing, and reading, but I hear you clearly about the stupid font issue. It hurts my eyes as well, and I find myself writing things in Word, then coppying and pasting them into the game, just so I don't have to strain my eyes with the teeny tiny font Paizo seems to insist on.
But the broader issue is - if we are posting as much as we are, and as long as we are - some people can get burned out. We've had a few players in the past who have left the game becuase of so much posting. Again, I like it, but I understand that it is a lot more then the usual type of PbP game which seems to involve text messaging from a cell phone :)
I have considered two options to this issue, and would like get some feedback on them, Kholgrym, though you are new to the group, if you wouldn't mind giving me a heads up, that would helpful.
The first option is dividing the players into (basically) teams - in which I run two threads connected to the same game. So, for example, if Ariarh wanted to spend a few pages a day going back and forth with lots of social RP for a quest and a few players, she could still do so; while the other "thread" would be for people with a more limited time schedule to do their postings - or prefer shorter posts.
Theoretically a person could pick a day and time (in real life) when their "Team" would do more frequent posts, and the pace would be slower for them - while another "Team" could have a faster - or heavier writing instensive - group.
Due to the nature of the Social RP right now via the town, I think this is a perceft time to institute such a plan. For example, Kholgrym, if you and Kae wanted to do a back and forth posting - with only a few times a day (maybe) with a few lines here and there, and pick maybe one day a week to do a battle or some combat - while other players do more intensive posts all day - well, it could be done.
If Kae wanted to do both "teams" he could do that too. One set of posting between him and you, one set of postings between him and the other players. This assumes that Kae is up for it.
My goal with this project would be posting "quests" - like "On this thread anyone who wants to go fight the troll - meet here: FYI, it will be combat heavy, little RP" or "On this thread anyone who wants to solve the puzzle in the town - meet here: FYI, little combat, longer posts, lot of social RP".
This would not prevent players for going to both threads, if they wanted, but it would allow you to opt out of certain quests or missions you don't find to be interesting. And again, there is nothing that would prevent you from doing both threads, or multiple threads - possibly even playing another character for with smaller threads, just for fun.
Please, everyone - let me know what you think. I can run a few extra threads, I believe, because if I do then the main will be somewhat smaller, and the "satalite" threads will be easier to handle - because they will also be smaller.
So, Kholgrym - the short answer to the question is this; would you still be interested in playing the game if you were involved in less writing intensive, shorter quests that you are free to pick and choose?
And, of course, that goes for everyone, else, too.
I have no issue with playing/posting in "teams" and undertaking respective quests. I can be involved in the longer posts, and, if my character is required I am happy to participate in the shorter postings, as well.
Well, to be perfectly honest I love the current thread as is. I'm just not up to the task of keeping up due to, in essence, physical limitations.
I'd be up for giving such a system a try. As I said, I'm loving the game and plot, the detail everyone's putting into things, but I'm just a bit overwhelmed. I am a little worried, however, about the ramifications that may result by splitting the group into several teams. Such systems seem to rarely work out; game play tends to break down in most cases when everybody's not on the same page. In this case, we literally would not be on the same page.
I think the biggest thing to consider is this: does the group enjoy the intensive play style? If things are working out as everyone would like, then don't change it around. Especially not for me. If it is the kind of game you like, then play it. This is especially true considering this is a unique play style; you're unlikely to find an average group willing to undertake such a game. Since you've managed to gather such a group here, then by all means, stick with what's working for as long as it's working.
I like intensive and then I enjoy a break and a breather with shorter, quicker postings. I agree, if it's too intense for too long, one can feel creatively burnt out.
Maybe we can post succinct summaries on the discussion board of pertinent or relevant findings and mysteries, so players do not need to rifle through numerous, long, heavy text postings? And also, if players are away for extended periods then it would be easier for them to play catch up. Just a suggestion.
so would we have RP / Long-post threads, or make liberal use of spoilers?
so would we have RP / Long-post threads, or make liberal use of spoilers?
Well, recently the players went on the quest to deal with the Osirion. That was, theoretically, going to be a rather short encounter. I told the group the bonus XP, BP and gold they would get for the quest, if they participated. If they did NOT participate, they could have stayed at the fortress and done other things - like be present for the complaints brought to Khrovin via Hester Goodwyfe and maybe spent the same time "In Game" dealing with that part of the story, nipping this in the bud, even while the other guys were out doing combat and battle with the Osirion and Lycans.
I'm worried that we're having a trial to make sure the laws have not been broken and we have no official laws. It will prove to be an interesting trial between Goodwyfe and Grishnak.
I'm worried that we're having a trial to make sure the laws have not been broken and we have no official laws. It will prove to be an interesting trial between Goodwyfe and Grishnak.
Yes... Indeed, that will be interesting...
I think we need to name the Fortress. We refer to it as the late Stag Lord's fortress or simply as 'fortress'. I think it would be cool to give it a great name. What do you guys think?
I really like Ry's idea of posting summaries on the discussion thread. I think that would help a ton and would allow people who miss a few days to catch up quickly without their eyes bleeding lol.
As far as laws go are we writing out each and every one? We can write some of the basic ones and go from there using the resources that I put up and I can certainly come up with some myself. Maybe that is the best way to go about this is for everyone to think of some laws their characters would want implemented.
As far as laws go are we writing out each and every one? We can write some of the basic ones and go from there using the resources that I put up and I can certainly come up with some myself. Maybe that is the best way to go about this is for everyone to think of some laws their characters would want implemented.
Perhaps we should nut out the major laws and the rest can be sorted as our township and community grows. The laws we do establish can be revisited at a later date (which we can stipulate) to see if they are working and accomplishing what we had hoped.
I will go through those links you listed (thank you for those btw!) and Ariarh will make some suggestions soon re laws she would like to see in place.
Any name suggestions for the ex Stag Lord's fortress that we currently own and reside in?
Thornfell Fortress, hereby known as Thornfell (named after the river Thorn which flows through) or Winter Scar Fortress, hereby known as Winter Scar, named after our beloved ruler, Alaric Winter. 'Winterfell' would have been nice but sadly it is taken by Game of Thrones. ;)
Though I am definitely partial to Winterfell it is taken lol. I have a few ideas though.
Riftwalk Hold
Frostfell Keep
Winter Ridge Hold/Keep
Some laws I've been working on. Hopefully the GM will give us some leeway with wording. Let me know what you think and also add your own.
Laws of Saravale:
The laws of Saravale are herein put forth.
First, there shall be no commission of, nor conspiracy to commit, the murder of another sentient being, except in instances where the killing is justified. Killings are justified in the following instances: When in the defense of oneself, ones family, or ones nation. This defense is put forth in instances where there is a clear and imminent threat to the life of oneself or family. In the case of defense of the nation killing is justified in the event of invasion, or in the prevention of greater loss of life.
Second, there shall be no violence done to one another except in defense of oneself, ones family, ones property, or ones nation.
Third, there shall be no theft or misappropriation of property belonging to another.
Fourth, Taxes, as set forth by the crown and council, shall be paid for the use and upkeep of common areas such as roads, docks, sanitation, and defense of the kingdom.
Fifth, there shall be no defacing of public or private property without the owners consent.
Sixth, all those brought up on charges have the right to counsel. If counsel cannot be afforded, the Crown will make every attempt to make arrangements suitable for those involved to appoint counsel for the accused. The arrangements can include reparations to be made at a later date as agreed upon by the parties involved.
Though I am definitely partial to Winterfell it is taken lol. I have a few ideas though.
Riftwalk Hold
Frostfell Keep
Winter Ridge Hold/Keep
I like Frostfell Keep the best out of those three.
Some laws I've been working on. Hopefully the GM will give us some leeway with wording. Let me know what you think and also add your own.
Laws of Saravale:
The laws of Saravale are herein put forth.
First, there shall be no commission of, nor conspiracy to commit, the murder of another sentient being, except in instances where the killing is justified. Killings are justified in the following instances: When in the defense of oneself, ones family, or ones nation. This defense is put forth in instances where there is a clear and imminent threat to the life of oneself or family. In the case of defense of the nation killing is justified in the event of invasion, or in the prevention of greater loss of life.
Second, there shall be no violence done to one another except in defense of oneself, ones family, ones property, or ones nation.
Third, there shall be no theft or misappropriation of property belonging to another.
Fourth, Taxes, as set forth by the crown and council, shall be paid for the use and upkeep of common areas such as roads, docks, sanitation, and defense of the kingdom.
Fifth, there shall be no defacing of public or private property without the owners consent.
Sixth, all those brought up on charges have the right to counsel. If counsel cannot be afforded, the Crown will make every attempt to make arrangements suitable for those involved to appoint counsel for the accused. The arrangements can include reparations to be made at a later date as agreed upon by the parties involved.
May I make a suggestion re the second law? Let's make it more definitive: No natural or magical violence ...
Re the first law, I think the concept of 'justifiable murder' (because it seems people will interchange murder/killing for their own purposes) is not sitting well with me. For eg, if Person A killed Person B out of revenge or drunkenness, jealousy etc and then (after the fact) said Person B came onto their property and drew a weapon on them and they were defending themselves. Under the law as currently written/stated, they are justified in such a killing and it cannot really be proven that it was indeed murder and not self-defense or protection of one's self or family. I'm not sure if my example is clear enough. But the problem is how does one define 'justifiable' and place a trust value on it that all people will only kill in defense of something or someone.
Some other laws, Ariarh would suggest:
No wilful and/or singleminded destruction of land, waterways, air or property. No mistreatment of domestic animals or creatures bred for consumption, work or sale.
I think it's important to include some law pertaining to rules of eviction from land. I know we gave people land to have a new start. But, if we are unaware of their true nature when they enter our town/city and later it is found they are evil or flagrantly unsavory and undertaking illegal activities, the Council should have the right to enter their land, investigate and evict, if/where necessary ... Or enter their land and be permitted to conduct investigations etc. The owner should not hold the right to bar the Council from his/her land if the members are there on official Council business.
Re your fourth law about taxes, we need to include 'parks' and 'libraries' as well.
Are we going to include fines, imprisonment, hanging or beheadings, banishment somewhere in the terms of these laws? I'm not sure what forms of punishment we want meted out in our town but that needs to be defined as well.
Murder by definition is the illegal act. Killing ins self defense is not murder, and can be separated from the rest of the sentence. BTW, how do we feel about dueling? Will that be illegal, at least to the death?
i like noting punishments to be meted out by the council.
Hey guys/gals. I've been trolling, but I wanted to check in and say Hi.
If anyone is up for sharing a quick synopsis of what I've missed? I see you swapped out some players.
I've got concerns regarding your second law, Alaric; I'm thinking the term "violence" should be formally defined, lest you have Goodwyfe and her cronies complaining about the half-orc's smell ''violently'' assaulting their sensibilities.
Additionally, here are a couple of ideas from Kolgrym's perspective:
1) How about prohibiting the use of magics to animate or control the dead?
2) Perhaps something that requires all dead to be disposed of as dictated by their faith (if that faith is known and acceptable to the community)? All others would be interred in a community graveyard to be managed by the priests of Pharasma (led by myself or an NPC) to both limit the possibility of undead generating spontaneously, as well as reduce any instances of grave robbing or body snatching.
Murder by definition is the illegal act. Killing ins self defense is not murder, and can be separated from the rest of the sentence. BTW, how do we feel about dueling? Will that be illegal, at least to the death?
i like noting punishments to be meted out by the council.
Aye, I realise this but if a creature/person is wanting to twist and blur the line between one and the other, they are more likely to do what they want and save their bacon. I am just trying to be exact in these laws because with any laws, if you are not thorough they can come back later to bite you on the arse.