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This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, , or flee from combat.
You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature's possession.
You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop.
Read again.
Read again.This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, , or flee from combat.
You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature's possession.
You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop.
G@$ d@+nit.
I need to put more ranks into Profession(Reader).
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The question was never really about summoning monsters.
The real question is if you can use Gate to pull in a monster like a Balor, since it works much differently from a standard Summon Monster spell.
Apparently I can't delete the entire thread! Poop.
Anyways, What are the differences between gating in a balor and using a summon spell?
If they had meant the caster could only use Conjuration (Summoning) spells, I think they would've said so. Since they didn't, I believe the intent is any summoning spell.
Certainly. The room for doubt lies in the text differences, seen here:
This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane). It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. The spell conjures one of the creatures from the 1st Level list on Table: Summon Monster. You choose which kind of creature to summon, and you can choose a different one each time you cast the spell.
Casting a gate spell has two effects.First, it creates an interdimensional connection between your plane of existence and a plane you specify, allowing travel between those two planes in either direction.
Second, you may then call a particular individual or kind of being through the gate.
The gate itself is a circular hoop or disk from 5 to 20 feet in diameter (caster's choice) oriented in the direction you desire when it comes into existence (typically vertical and facing you). It is a two-dimensional window looking into the plane you specified when casting the spell, and anyone or anything that moves through is shunted instantly to the other side.
Summoning a monster is definitely within the realm of time stop.
Opening an interdimensional connection and then specifically calling a particular kind of being through it, however, seems much more like targeting a creature (The one being pulled through) with a spell.
That's where the confusion comes from.
EDIT: Also, Gating is a Conjuration (Calling) spell, like Planar Binding, while the other summon spells are Conjuration (Summon)s.
If you can Gate, it serves to follow you could also Planar Binding while Time Stopped.
You can create the gate -- you can call the creature, it simply won't get there until after the time stop ends provide you have enough time left on the gate after the time stop ends.
You can create the gate -- you can call the creature, it simply won't get there until after the time stop ends provide you have enough time left on the gate after the time stop ends.
The calling gate is instantaneous. It literally cannot have enough time left on the gate to be there after time stop ends.
The question was never really about summoning monsters.
The real question is if you can use Gate to pull in a monster like a Balor, since it works much differently from a standard Summon Monster spell.
I'd say no on gate. Instead of conjuring a being into existence, it affects an already existing creature on another plane. (While under time stop, your spells cant affect other creatures.)
EDIT: Dang Trinam beats me on the quick draw.
Summoning a creature is pulling it from somewhere else as well. It's just any random creature though. If you desire to pull a specific kind of creature through the Gate, you can do that.
I could see the argument for not being able to call a specific individual through during time stop, but not calling a specific kind.
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You can create the gate -- you can call the creature, it simply won't get there until after the time stop ends provide you have enough time left on the gate after the time stop ends.The calling gate is instantaneous. It literally cannot have enough time left on the gate to be there after time stop ends.
Unless the extra rounds provided by time stop take up an instantaneous amount of time themselves.
Unless the extra rounds take up an instantaneous amount of time themselves.You can create the gate -- you can call the creature, it simply won't get there until after the time stop ends provide you have enough time left on the gate after the time stop ends.The calling gate is instantaneous. It literally cannot have enough time left on the gate to be there after time stop ends.
So you're also arguing that other instantaneous effects cast on yourself during time stop don't take effect until after the time stop is done?
Ergo, Instantaneous isn't instantaneous. AGH I just hurt myself thinking about it.
Perhaps it would be keen to point out that we're talking about a spell that effectively stops time for up to 30 seconds.
Logic doesn't necessarily work here.
Yes, but this has opened up another question.
Prismatic sphere pops up right when you cast it. Right?
So if you cast it during time stop, does it pop up right where you were standing at the time? Or does it not pop up until after the time stop goes away? And if that's the case, doesn't it mean it would pop up around you right after the time stop ended?
In effect, arguing that instantaneous occurs after the time stop ends means that your magic makes you go faster than your own magic. Somehow that doesn't seem to make sense.
Cheapy, note the difference between summoning and calling. Summoning brings manifestations of creatures. Calling transports ACTUAL creatures. Phb pg 209, first paragraph of conjuration.
bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning);
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate.
WELL THAT'S NOT CONFUSING OR ANYTHING.
The first one might just be flavor text, but it definitely explains how the monsters don't really die.
You can summon them, you can't gate them.
Why? It doesn't say you can use the time to cast Conjuration (summoning) spells. If it said that, I'd agree 100% with you.
But as it is, it just says summoning allies.
I guess this is an issue of whether the "summoning" that's explicitly allowed refers to the way the rules define summoning spells (as Conjuration (Summoning)) or as the word "summoning" is generally understood.
For my money, I think it's meant to be the colloquial understanding since if it was meant to be Conjuration(Summoning), it'd have been that.
Either way, I can summon Astral Devas or 1d4+2 Celestial T-Rexes, which might do better than a balor or two.
Never underestimate what 2d4+4 Celestial T-Rexes can do.
Ya, I agree. The Pathfinder guys should have elaborated more on the difference between summoning and calling.
But that's how it is, though it's probably a good thing, instantly calling a balor without any warning would simply piss of the balor. That's bad for all parties.
Step 1) Call/Summon Balor
Step 2) Teleport Away, hoping the party can handle it.Step 3) Scry on the battle.
Step 4) ???
Step 5) Loot! Either the enemy or your former allies.
...So can I use Sending while Time Stopped, as long as the message is telling someone to come here and help me? That's also technically summoning allies.
...okay I'm being obtuse I admit it, but still. 'Summoning' should mean 'Summoning,' or you open up to stuff like that.
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Summoning a creature is pulling it from somewhere else as well. It's just any random creature though. If you desire to pull a specific kind of creature through the Gate, you can do that.I could see the argument for not being able to call a specific individual through during time stop, but not calling a specific kind.
Gate School conjuration (creation or calling)Summon Monster I School conjuration (summoning)
Conjuration
Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools.Conjurations transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling); create objects or effects on the spot (creation); heal (healing); bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning); or transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation). Creatures you conjure usually—but not always—obey your commands.
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
The creature or object must appear within the spell's range, but it does not have to remain within the range.
Calling: A calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can't be dispelled.
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.[/b]
The key point is that a Callin spell like gate "transport a creature", a summoning spell "bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning)".
So one is the actual entity, the other is more similar to a astral projected creature.
But the mechanical crunch for how Conjuration (Summoning) works doesn't mention anything about a manifestation. It specifically says
A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate.
That's what the mechanical crunch says. The fluff says that it's a manifestation. You wouldn't "instantly bring" a manifestation. It'd manifest at the spot, not be brought.
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But the mechanical crunch for how Conjuration (Summoning) works doesn't mention anything about a manifestation. It specifically says
A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate.That's what the mechanical crunch says. The fluff says that it's a manifestation. You wouldn't "instantly bring" a manifestation. It'd manifest at the spot, not be brought.
So now you are saying that the description of the Conjuration subschoolks isn't mechanical crunch?
By your reasoning time stop would stop even the summoning spells. I have no problem with that, but the description of the subschool say differently.
During time stop you can't affect another creature. So Gating (and all the other calling spells) will not work, while summoning, that bring into being a temporary creature, work.
Tri has already pointe that out.
There are two Tris in the thread. Did you mean TOZ or his evil twin?
But the mechanical crunch for how Conjuration (Summoning) works doesn't mention anything about a manifestation. It specifically says
A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate.That's what the mechanical crunch says. The fluff says that it's a manifestation. You wouldn't "instantly bring" a manifestation. It'd manifest at the spot, not be brought.So now you are saying that the description of the Conjuration subschoolks isn't mechanical crunch?
By your reasoning time stop would stop even the summoning spells. I have no problem with that, but the description of the subschool say differently.
What I'm saying is that the first paragraph of the description of magical schools is fluff.
Same principle as the usual fluff text at the beginning of a feat. It's not mechanically binding. The actual mechanics are, and the descriptive paragraph is not. For example, the part about not being able to summon things into other creatures or things is binding, since it is mechanics.
The descriptive text is just that. Descriptive.
The subschool description specifically says it brings a creature. This contradicts the fluff, which says its a manifestation.
By the way, I've now been convinced that Gate doesn't work in time stop, RAW.
RAI, I still think it does, but that's debatable as always.
+1000 xp to everyone involved.
Awesome. New Nerdrage power!