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Waa! Alright, I've got this buddy of mine, returned from Afghanistan, and long story short, at every turn, he questions any damn rule that can't be explained with realism or magic. He did this once when I told him how he couldn't sneak up on another character while in plain sight, and that he needed cover/concealment. Everyone agreed with me. Our mistake. Now, at every turn, he tries to sneak up on us in broad-damn-daylight, and most of the time, he's successful. And everytime, I hear "And look who has no cover!"
Now, a new problem has crept up, and I can't help but feel stumped. He went on about how you should be able to apply the Dodge feat to CMD, and anything else that makes your touch AC go up, like a Luck modifier. I can't help but agree, but I know the reason for this is game balance.
I guess I have two questions:
1. Explain to me why CMD could be visualized in such a way that Dodge doesn't apply when someone tries to trip me, but if my legs are being attacked, suddenly it comes into play?
2. Deal with a player who questions the rules anytime something comes up where he feels he could do something that his character can't, only because of the rules, or anything dealing with realism (I call him a 'Why?' gamer, because it reminds me of a two-year old child you asks Why?) This guy is otherwise a great gamer, my best friend, and would have been best man at my wedding if he hadn't been in the middle east at the time, so, kicking him out is so far from being an option, it isn't one.
Thanks in advance, fellow pathfinders!
can't help with #2, but as far as #1, he's right. Dodge, insight, luck, sacred, profane and deflection ALL adds to your CMB.
Waa! Alright, I've got this buddy of mine, returned from Afghanistan, and long story short, at every turn, he questions any damn rule that can't be explained with realism or magic. He did this once when I told him how he couldn't sneak up on another character while in plain sight, and that he needed cover/concealment. Everyone agreed with me. Our mistake. Now, at every turn, he tries to sneak up on us in broad-damn-daylight, and most of the time, he's successful. And everytime, I hear "And look who has no cover!"
That's awesome.
1. Explain to me why CMD could be visualized in such a way that Dodge doesn't apply when someone tries to trip me, but if my legs are being attacked, suddenly it comes into play?
Dodge does come into play.
A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD.
2. Deal with a player who questions the rules anytime something comes up where he feels he could do something that his character can't, only because of the rules, or anything dealing with realism (I call him a 'Why?' gamer, because it reminds me of a two-year old child you asks Why?) This guy is otherwise a great gamer, my best friend, and would have been best man at my wedding if he hadn't been in the middle east at the time, so, kicking him out is so far from being an option, it isn't one.
Point out to him that rules discussions during play take away from play. Suggest that you will talk about it at the end of the session. Also, sometimes before enforcing a silly rule, step back and consider that's it an unrealistic rule and maybe shouldn't be enforced.
I told him how he couldn't sneak up on another character while in plain sight, and that he needed cover/concealment.
Have you seen the playtest for new Stealth rules?
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lckz
The Stealth rules in the core rules books are influenced by miniatures, which don't have facing rules. So that is why you cannot sneak when you don't have cover or concealment.
Have a look at the new take on Stealth and perhaps that would be more suited to your game.
Waa! Alright, I've got this buddy of mine, returned from Afghanistan, and long story short, at every turn, he questions any damn rule that can't be explained with realism or magic. He did this once when I told him how he couldn't sneak up on another character while in plain sight, and that he needed cover/concealment. Everyone agreed with me. Our mistake. Now, at every turn, he tries to sneak up on us in broad-damn-daylight, and most of the time, he's successful. And everytime, I hear "And look who has no cover!"
Now, a new problem has crept up, and I can't help but feel stumped. He went on about how you should be able to apply the Dodge feat to CMD, and anything else that makes your touch AC go up, like a Luck modifier. I can't help but agree, but I know the reason for this is game balance.
I guess I have two questions:
1. Explain to me why CMD could be visualized in such a way that Dodge doesn't apply when someone tries to trip me, but if my legs are being attacked, suddenly it comes into play?
2. Deal with a player who questions the rules anytime something comes up where he feels he could do something that his character can't, only because of the rules, or anything dealing with realism (I call him a 'Why?' gamer, because it reminds me of a two-year old child you asks Why?) This guy is otherwise a great gamer, my best friend, and would have been best man at my wedding if he hadn't been in the middle east at the time, so, kicking him out is so far from being an option, it isn't one.
Thanks in advance, fellow pathfinders!
2.The game is an abstration, not a simulation, and things that make sense in real life don't work in the game due to balance reasons. If he ask you a question you can't answer then explain you are not a game developer, but you will try to get an answer for him. Then come back here. :)
1.You can't attack legs unless you are using the called shot rules in UC, IIRC.
Normal attack rolls presume an advantage for smaller attackers based on relative size.
Some situations should not favor smaller attackers, mainly those that involve moving the opponent bodily around the battlefield, like tripping, bull-rushing, etc.
A combat maneuver, then, is any attack-like action where size is a benefit rather than a hindrance.
As mentioned above, pretty much everything that affects touch AC, including Dodge bonuses, affects CMD also.
Remember that in Pathfinder, the combat advantages of size are represented by a higher strength score for larger creatures. This often compensates for their size penalty to hit (and then some), and makes sure the when the big guy hits he hits harder.
Waa! Alright, I've got this buddy of mine, returned from Afghanistan, and long story short, at every turn, he questions any damn rule that can't be explained with realism or magic. He did this once when I told him how he couldn't sneak up on another character while in plain sight, and that he needed cover/concealment. Everyone agreed with me. Our mistake. Now, at every turn, he tries to sneak up on us in broad-damn-daylight, and most of the time, he's successful. And everytime, I hear "And look who has no cover!"
Bwahahahahahaha. That's amazing.
Now, a new problem has crept up, and I can't help but feel stumped. He went on about how you should be able to apply the Dodge feat to CMD, and anything else that makes your touch AC go up, like a Luck modifier.
It does.
A creature can also add any circumstance, def lection,
dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses
to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature’s AC also
apply to its CMD. A f lat-footed creature does not add its
Dexterity bonus to its CMD.
... If he ask you a question you can't answer then explain you are not a game developer, but you will try to get an answer for him...
I disagree with this. If he is trying to do something that seems against the rules. He should do the research to find a justification for it.
And "I can do it in real life" is not a justification for what happens in a game rule set.
So he should pour through the books, contact the developers, post online, etc...
If he can't find a within the rules way to do it, then the 2 of you (or the whole group if desired) can sit down OUT OF GAMING SESSION and discuss if you are going to house rule it.
As a rule of thumb, any non-physical/immaterial bonus DOES apply to CMD.
Therefore, armor, natural armor, and shield bonuses don't help, but deflection, dodge, insight, luck, and others do.
Also, the game assumes there is no facing, but that exists as an abstraction primarily to make combat situations manageable (much in the same way that turn-based actions makes combat manageable even though the characters are assumed to be acting more or less simultaneously). There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying your player has total concealment from the guard because the guard is constantly looking in only one direction while the PC comes up from the other.
Although the game does have abstractions, it is SUPPOSED to make sense and be fun.
The next time your player asks "Why can't I sneak up without cover or concealment in broad daylight?" Your answer should be, "you can," but only under very specific and difficult circumstances.
It's worth noting that the "sneak up behind" problem with stealth is under official review. Check the blog from about 2 weeks back.
... If he ask you a question you can't answer then explain you are not a game developer, but you will try to get an answer for him...I disagree with this. If he is trying to do something that seems against the rules. He should do the research to find a justification for it.
And "I can do it in real life" is not a justification for what happens in a game rule set.
So he should pour through the books, contact the developers, post online, etc...
If he can't find a within the rules way to do it, then the 2 of you (or the whole group if desired) can sit down OUT OF GAMING SESSION and discuss if you are going to house rule it.
When people are new they don't understand the system well enough to know why, and rules don't explain why. Once they have a few things explained to them they normally figure out the rest on their own over time. Well that is my experience anyway. Now if the person never bothers to get the info on their own, then I agree with you.
As a rule of thumb, any non-physical/immaterial bonus DOES apply to CMD.
Therefore, armor, natural armor, and shield bonuses don't help, but deflection, dodge, insight, luck, and others do.
Also, the game assumes there is no facing, but that exists as an abstraction primarily to make combat situations manageable (much in the same way that turn-based actions makes combat manageable even though the characters are assumed to be acting more or less simultaneously). There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying your player has total concealment from the guard because the guard is constantly looking in only one direction while the PC comes up from the other.
Although the game does have abstractions, it is SUPPOSED to make sense and be fun.
The next time your player asks "Why can't I sneak up without cover or concealment in broad daylight?" Your answer should be, "you can," but only under very specific and difficult circumstances.
I disagree. Changing rules because someone does not like them can lead to bad results. What I do sometimes is switch the scenario of the PC's being on the receiving end of a possible rule change.
PS:That does not mean never change a rule, but consider the consequences on both side of the GM screen.
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CRB, Pg. 199, just above the bolded text 'Determine Succes
Wow. And it's right there. Can I be honest? It would be nice if even ONE character sheet listed the rest of these bonuses, and if there was a Flat-Footed CMD entry as well (this is why we assumed you couldn't, because while AC lists these bonuses, CMD does not)
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As most of the others have said, the answer to 'why' is typically that some sort of compromise has been made along the way. This rule set is over thirty years old now, and some of the explanations are glossed over.
I've suggested this to others before, but buy him a pocket notebook. Ask him to jot down any non-world-breaking issues that he sees, with the promise that the two of you will research the answer after the session. You'll probably both learn a thing or two, and the other players at the table get an uninterrupted game session. Win-win!