Question about synthesist HP...No not a troll about healing or anything else

[Sandbox]

So i was wondering about how the summoner HP works.
say I had a 1st Level Dwarf summoner. say a starting Con of 14 +2 racial=16 so 1st level HP=8+3+1(fav.class)=12
All the eidolon forms start with 13 Con. with d10 HD

So unfused my HP=12
Fused my HP=8+1(fav.Class)+1(eidolonCon) +(d10+1)Temp
i guess what i'm trying to ask is, is having a good Con score worthwhile really? because when i fuse i drop from my con of 16 down to the eidolons 13con?
i like characters with beefy hp and the Eidolons con score makes me sad
i suppose i could blow a bunch of points on it but i don't know

[Fraust]

I was under the impression that you added the two hit point totals together, though you do bring up a very good point. Wish I had an answer, but all I can say is thanks for pointing that out...

hmmm...I'll reread the discriptions when I have time, hopefully by then more people have chimed in...this has got me thinking.

[Sandbox]

Bump

[Amuny]

I think you keep your own constitution modifier for the mean of HP, since you ADD eidolon hit point to yours as temporary.

You would use his constution modifier for a Fortitude save while fused though. But fusing with your eidolon should not weaken, in my point of view, the summoner himself.

[Seraphimpunk]

i think from the synthesist thread, it uses the eidolon's hp modifier while fused.

so beefy dwarf, somehow drops down to 10hp while fused. with 6 temp hp.
instead of having 12 hp while unfused.

as a bonus, if the 6 temp hp are dismissed / killed, instead of being stuck at 10 hp, you suddenly gain 2 hp.

[Ramarren]

You get the Eidolon's CON...so technically, yes, you have fewer HP while wearing your Eidolon. In practice, however, it doesn't affect functional HP. Once the Eidolon gets to zero, your CON goes back up and your HP increase.

What it *does* affect is how many HP you can sacrifice to keep your Eidolon from popping.

[Amuny]

then on the other hand, if you got 8constitution and get to 14-16 while fused, you could over-sacrifice yourself?

That doesn't make sense to me. You "wear" the eidolon over you, you don't polymorph. The form inside the eidolon is unchanged.

[Sandbox]

Oh humbug...seems like something that should be worded as using the best of eitherscore

FAQ for clarification?

[Amuny]

Sandbox wrote:

Oh humbug...seems like something that should be worded as using the best of eitherscore

FAQ for clarification?

Not even best of either, just your standard score.

You woke in the morning, you have 12 HP
You summon your eidolon, which embrace your character with his body, giving him 11 more HP. You then have 12+11temp HP.

Though, your eidolon is over you, you are your eidolon. By then, any effect that would physically target you and/or your eidolon, which is actually the same target, uses HIS physical stat, make sense.

You use HIS Strenght to hit, as you use HIS constitution to any constitution related save WHILE FUSED.

Though, inside the eidolon is a little dwarf with his mental capacity, and actually physically present. Once the eidolon disappear for any reason, you still a little dwarf. But nothing says that the character IN the eidolon is changed. What is changed, is the new "character" generated by the FUSION of both.

Therefore, I would definitly go as I said: Use your constitution modifier for HitPoints, and everything related BEFORE you FUSED. but in action, you use any of HIS modifier (for save, as exemple, as long as you are fused)

It also avoid any problem on both side from getting fused or unfused with different constitution score than the eidolon.

[Mogart]

Sandbox wrote:

So i was wondering about how the summoner HP works.

say I had a 1st Level Dwarf summoner. say a starting Con of 14 +2 racial=16 so 1st level HP=8+3+1(fav.class)=12
All the eidolon forms start with 13 Con. with d10 HD

So unfused my HP=12
Fused my HP=8+1(fav.Class)+1(eidolonCon) +(d10+1)Temp
i guess what i'm trying to ask is, is having a good Con score worthwhile really? because when i fuse i drop from my con of 16 down to the eidolons 13con?
i like characters with beefy hp and the Eidolons con score makes me sad
i suppose i could blow a bunch of points on it but i don't know

Actually the lack of hit points is a non-issue. The Eidolon gets sent away when its hit points drop to 0.

The synthesist summoner gets a lifelink like ability that is better than life link, allowing you to sacrifice your hit points to prevent the eidolon from being sent away.

So when your eidolon is at 1 hit point, and takes a 7 damage hit, you can literally sacrifice 7 of your hit points to keep him in play, which is where your con score comes into play.

Essentially the hit that sends your eidolon away will, if you play it right, also be the same hit that knocks you unconscious.

[Sandbox]

How are all the synths out in the world Playing this rule? Keeping their base hp and only using eidolon con for saves and checks? Or are they just dumping con to use the eidolon's?

[Seraphimpunk]

all the synthesists in the synth thread would treat your dwarf as having 12hp un-fused.

and 10hp + 6 temp while fused.

the plus side of this is that if your eidolon is dismissed, you "gain" 2hp from your con increasing, the reverse of a barbarian's rage problem.
since a barbarian would be going from 16 con to 12 con when they drop out of rage. you're going from 12 con to 16 con.

[Ramarren]

Amuny wrote:

then on the other hand, if you got 8constitution and get to 14-16 while fused, you could over-sacrifice yourself?

That doesn't make sense to me. You "wear" the eidolon over you, you don't polymorph. The form inside the eidolon is unchanged.

Sensible or not, it is RAW (and as far as I can tell, RAI).

Unlimited Magic wrote:

While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution)

I don't see anything noting that HP modifier is not included in 'uses'.

Personally, I don't think it is any worse that the problem a barbarian runs into. So yes, if your Eidolon has a better CON modifier than you do, and you are not careful, you can sacrifice hit points to the point where it will knock you unconscious (or even kill you) if/when the Eidolon is sent back.

[Raymond Lambert]

please explain to me why in the world you mix dwarf and summoner together? +2 wisdom, -2 cha. WHAT?

also +2 con with a funky interaction.

character acting/rp?

[Akumamajin]

Raymond Lambert wrote:

please explain to me why in the world you mix dwarf and summoner together? +2 wisdom, -2 cha. WHAT?

also +2 con with a funky interaction.

character acting/rp?

Because some people envision a character concept that they want to play, even if it is suboptimal. And playing a dwarf as a charisma caster might be suboptimal but it is a far cry from crippling the group or something.

If you where a dwarf who had a knack for summoning stuff, would you think "it is my lives dream to become a summoner ... but because we dwarfs are not as beautiful then that damn elves the monsters won't like me as much ... damnit I will become fighter!"

And on the other hand, you could always talk to your GM about this and maybe design a feat that lets you use Wisdom for Charisma in regards of your casting capabilities ... stuff like this has been done with Weapon Finesse and Dervish Dance before, and there is even one feat that lets you hit stuff with wisdom instead of strength, guided strike or something, so it should be no too big deal.

[Sandbox]

i just like the idea of a dwarf who is a bit bent, and who likes the power of ripping beings from other planes to do his bidding. yeah he doesn't have great charisma but the SM SLA is awesome and can be roleplayed in what ever summoning mechanic you want.

Maybe he tears outsiders out of the Dreamscape while they sleep and after the duration is expired (or they do) they wake back up on their respective planes as if they had a nightmare of a mad dwarf. maybe if i'm calling an outsider i could land an Agonize spell on them... more roleplay fun with repercussions...

Dwarf hardy bonus is also delicious when stacked with ShieldedMeld and its greater counterpart

[Raymond Lambert]

on the plus side, your theory of a monster having a nightmare about a dwarf plucking it away made me smile.

i still think it is a bad idea and would try to convince a fellow party member against doing so. might not cripple a party but does bring it down a notch. couple of players like this and i doubt the team has justification to be listed as elite.

please remember i did correctly guess it was character acting roleplaying. no need to argue role vs roll. i saw similar players like this for pf society last night in their first game. one new to society all together, another with just a new pc. told them what i thought, advised alternatives but recognised they had the right to keep them as they were. they did. i dominated 1st 2 fights, they saved the day fight three while my pc was down from a color spray. still think they should have adjusted but they both contributed enough to save my ass at the end of the day.