Kirthfinder - World of Warriorcraft Houserules


Homebrew and House Rules

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I'm going to consider this actual errata at this point, because it works better, both mechanically and thematically, than it did before, IMHO.

Thank you again for the discussion that led to this!


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Warriorking9001 wrote:
Are there even 3.6 billion people in the average fantasy kingdom?
No, I'm trying to map to RL - there are over 4 billion cell phone users on Earth, but I rounded down to make the number come out nicely. Anyway, the spell construction is wonky, because you're not (literally) creating a hive mind over the planet, even if it sometimes seems like it. Might need some new seeds to get it to work right. The point is to show that an ungodly expensive piece of tech or magic is within reach if enough people pitch in.

I can understand that somewhat. I just adore magi tech in fantasy and so I thought of the idea that somehow a fantasy kingdom has an equivalent to.. Maybe not cell phones but something along the lines of some kind of astral radio or telephone or the like.

Although looking at the spells grimoire, technically trying to make 'Wizard Skype' or a magical fax machine would actually be way easier than even that would be.

Mirror Sending: BVD: Alter senses (0 level) + Augment Spell (+1 level) + Cascade Spell (figment; +1 level) + Reach Spell (close to interplanar; +6 levels) + Extend Spell (1 rd./level to 1 rd.; -1 level) + Concentration Spell (standard; +1 level) + Location-Specific Spell (subject must be looking into a mirror; -2 levels) + Ritual Spell (-2 levels) = 4th level. You gain the ability to observe one creature (and 10’r. around it) through a mirror, and an illusion of you in the mirror can relay a brief message.

4*20*1000*2=160,000
What kind of metamagic feat would be used to make it that the items need a particular code to be used? I imagine something like several major locations in a setting have these communication mirrors, but they need a code (similar to a phone or fax number) to use them properly, or that 2 or more need to be connected in order for it to work. Would that lower or increase the level?
Can you put another restricted spell to say that the mirror has to be specifically designed with this functionality in mind?

And whilst we're messing around with that idea of cell phones I'll toss a few more wrinkles into this.
What kind of spell would a smartphone camera be? what would the limitations be?
What kind of numen cost would it be to put your spellbook into your phone? (I'm imagining a wizard with something akin to the shiekah slate where they keep all of their spells on this magical tablet thing)

Also on the Mirror Sending spell in particular... How big of a mirror do you actually need for it? Could a hand mirror be used as the hypothetical 'wizard cell phone'?


Warriorking9001 wrote:

1. What kind of metamagic feat would be used to make it that the items need a particular code to be used? I imagine something like several major locations in a setting have these communication mirrors, but they need a code (similar to a phone or fax number) to use them properly, or that 2 or more need to be connected in order for it to work. Would that lower or increase the level?

2. Can you put another restricted spell to say that the mirror has to be specifically designed with this functionality in mind?

1. Password-locking a magic item is something I hadn't thought about. I'll have to mull that over. It would be useful for a lot more than just phones! But, yes, as a useful feature it would cost more, not less.

2. No!!! By applying the permanent magic item pricing, you are making the mirror a magic item. That's what crafting IS.

Also, as written, Mirror Sending has no way to send a call signal to tell the recipient to look into a mirror; you'd basically just create an illusion of your voice yelling "Bob, pick up!" that would only be audible within 10 ft. of the nearest mirror to him.


I think I have the reroll spell seed worked out.

Spoiler:
TOUCH OF FORTUNE
School: Divination
Level: arcane 0, divine 0
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: standard
Range: touch
Target: creature touched
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: Intuition negates (harmless); SR: yes
Description: The target can reroll any one die roll that round (target’s choice). The second roll must be used, even if worse than the first.
Improvement: Delay Spell (save reroll for when needed); Effect-Specific Spell (only a specific type of roll can be rerolled); Interrupting Spell (reroll after results revealed); Extend Spell (reroll all rolls during duration); Selective Spell (can choose whether to use reroll or original)

Examples:

Spoiler:
Bit of LuckCRB: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Extend Spell (inst. to 1 rd.; +1 level) + Restricted Spell (access to Luck domain; -1 level) = 1st level; for the next round, the target rolls twice for everything and chooses which roll to use. AKA choose futureTM2.

CatsfeetCM: Skill enhancement (0 level) + Cascade Spell (touch of fortune; +1 level) + Variable Spell (choose skill; +1 level) + Personal Spell (-1 level) + Sudden Spell (+0 levels) = 1st level; as a swift action, reroll any one Acrobatics, Athletics, or Stealth check you make with a +1/2 levels (+5 max.) bonus.

Fate of OneCRB: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Quicken Spell (+4 levels) + Interrupting Spell (+1 level) + Personal Spell (-1 level) = 4th level (listed as 7th); as an immediate action, you can reroll 1 die roll after the results are revealed. You must take the second roll, even if it’s worse than the first. Good fortuneCRB is the same, but requires access to the Luck domain (3rd level).

Second ChanceSRD: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Mass Effect Spell (1 roll/level; +4 levels) + Delay Spell (swift action; +3 levels) + Interrupting Spell (+1 level) + Personal Spell (-1 level) + Restricted Spell (seer; -1 level) = 6th level (listed as 5th); you can reroll up to 1 roll/level, each as an immediate action.

Word of ResolveUM: Blessing (0 level) + Cascade Spell (touch of fortune; +1 level) + Augment Spell (+1 to +4; +2 levels) + Extend Spell (10 min./level to inst.; -3 levels) + Quicken Spell (+3 levels) + Interrupting Spell (+1 level) + Restricted Spell (paladin; -2 levels) = 2nd level; immediate casting allows ally to reroll one attack, or saving throw vs. [charm] or [fear], with a +4 sacred bonus (bonus applies to damage, if used for an attack roll).

Battlemind LinkUM: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Reach Spell (touch to close; +1 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Mass Effect Spell (you and 1 ally; +1 level) + Extend Spell (inst. to 1 min./level; +3 levels) + Effect-Specific Spell (attack rolls and initiative; -1 level) = 5th level (listed as 6th); for the next 1 min./level, you and one ally both make initiative and attack rolls, both use the higher of the two dice (individual modifiers retained), if applicable.

Locate WeaknessUC: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Extend Spell (inst. to 1 min./level; +3 levels) + Personal Spell (-1 level) + Effect-Specific Spell (critical damage; -2 levels) = 1st level (listed as 3rd); for the next 1 rd./level, you roll all critical damage dice twice and take the better of the two.

Ill OmenAPG: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Reach Spell (touch to close; +1 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Accursed Spell (+1 level) + Inexorable Spell (+3 levels) + Restricted Spell (witch; -1 level) = 5th level (listed as 1st); target must roll twice for next d20 roll and use the worse of the two results (no save).

Saving FinaleAPG: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Reach Spell (touch to close; +1 level) + Quicken Spell (+3 levels) + Interrupting Spell (+1 level) + Creature-Specific Spell (affected by your bardic inspiration; -2 levels) + Effect-Specific Spell (saving throw only; -2 levels) = 1st level; immediate casting allows an ally affected by one of your inspirations to reroll one save.

Borrow FortuneAPG: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Quicken Spell (+3 levels) + Interrupting Spell (+1 level) + Personal Spell (-1 level) + Restricted Spell (oracle, seer, etc.; -1 level) = 3rd level; as an immediate action, roll twice for any one roll you make that round and keep the better result.

MisfortuneAPG: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Reach Spell (touch to medium; +1 level) + Accursed Spell (+1 level) + Extend Spell (inst. to 1 rd.; +1 level) + Restricted Spell (witch; -1 level) = 3rd level; for 1 round, subject rolls twice for everything and uses the worse of the two results.

Investigative MindACG: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Extend Spell (inst. to 10 min./level; +4 levels) + Personal Spell (-1 level) + Effect-Specific Spell (skill checks only; -2 levels) = 2nd level; for the next 10 min./level, you roll twice for all skill checks and use the better of the two results.

Immediate AssistanceCM: Touch of fortune (0 level) + + Reach Spell (touch to close; +1 level) + Quicken Spell (+3 levels) + Interrupting Spell (+1 level) + Effect-Specific Spell (skill check only; -2 levels) + Restricted Spell (bard; -1 level) = 2nd level; immediate casting allows target to reroll one skill check (before results determined).

Alternate RealityTM2: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Reach Spell (touch to close; +1 level) + Quicken Spell (+3 levels) + Interrupting Spell (+1 level) + Restricted Spell (wild magic; -1 level) = 3rd level; immediate casting forces target to reroll last roll.

Surge Selector, Hornung’sTM2: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Interrupting Spell (+1 level) + Extend Spell (inst. to 1 hr./level; +5 levels) + Personal Spell (-1 level) + Effect-Specific Spell (wild surges; -2 levels) + Restricted Spell (wild magic; -1 level) + Ritual Spell (full round; -1 level) = 2nd level (listed as 7th); for the next 1 hr./level, roll twice when triggering a wild surge and select which result to use (you know what dice rolls will result in).

Circle of PrivacyTM2: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Shape Spell (target to emanation; +2 levels) + Extend Spell (inst. to 1 hr./level; +5 levels) + Effect-Specific Spell (random encounters only; -2 levels) + Restricted Spell (ranger or access to Travel domain; -1 level) + Ritual Spell (-1 level) = 4th level; for the next 1 hr./level, roll twice for random encounter checks, and encounter occurs only if both checks say so.

Curse of WoundingAUG2: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Accursed Spell (+1 level) + Extend Spell (inst. to 1 hr./level; +5 levels) + Effect-Specific Spell (attacks against only; -2 levels) = 5th level; target’s attackers roll twice, choose the better result. Invest 250 x CL numen to maintain effect.

Lucky Bead, Blaise’sRR2: Touch of fortune (0 level) + Selective Spell (+1 level) + Extend Spell (inst. to 1 rd./level; +2 levels) + Personal Spell (-1 level) = 2nd level (listed as 4th); for the next 1 rd./level, you roll twice for d20 rolls and select the better result.


1: I thought of the password locking as a negative more as in "Oh hey we need to contact X person, do we have his number?" "No, we don't."

2: To defend my asking 2 and the response of "NO!!!" since you sound offended by that. I pointed it out more as the idea that Mirror Sending allows you to send magic to literally any mirror that you are aware of the existence of in the known universe, whilst I imagined the idea that these mirrors can't just send magic to ANY mirror but instead JUST to the other magic item mirrors.

3:

Kirth Gerson wrote:
Also, as written, Mirror Sending has no way to send a call signal to tell the recipient to look into a mirror; you'd basically just create an illusion of your voice yelling "Bob, pick up!" that would only be audible within 10 ft. of the nearest mirror to him.

That is... Certainly an issue.


Warriorking9001 wrote:

1: I thought of the password locking as a negative more as in "Oh hey we need to contact X person, do we have his number?" "No, we don't."

2: To defend my asking 2 and the response of "NO!!!" since you sound offended by that. I pointed it out more as the idea that Mirror Sending allows you to send magic to literally any mirror that you are aware of the existence of in the known universe, whilst I imagined the idea that these mirrors can't just send magic to ANY mirror but instead JUST to the other magic item mirrors.

3:

Kirth Gerson wrote:
Also, as written, Mirror Sending has no way to send a call signal to tell the recipient to look into a mirror; you'd basically just create an illusion of your voice yelling "Bob, pick up!" that would only be audible within 10 ft. of the nearest mirror to him.
That is... Certainly an issue.

1. Ah. Hmmm... might be a stretch, but adding "Creature-Specific Spell (person with a matching mirror) might work, for -2 levels. That would knock down the spell level to 2nd, and the cost of each mirror to 2nd * CL 3rd * 900 (at-will command-activated) = 5,400 numen -- still outside the reach of most 1st level Commoners. But if you add Mass Effect Spell (1/level) for +3 levels, you could divide the total cost among the number of people, reducing that to 4,500. That's easily within reach of a 6th level NPC or 4th level PC.

2. Ah! OK, I misunderstood where you were going with that. In that case, see #1, above.

3. As long as the recipient's mirror is on their person, they'd probably hear your voice calling.


1: Definitely mass effect spell since I imagine that it would basically be given to various influential people across the kingdom, and the more general idea that they only work with each other

2: understood.

3: Admittedly that a rather tricky part since I imagined something more like a home phone than a cell phone, like... I hate making this comparison but the mirror from Shrek where it's essentially a piece of furniture (though apparently in that the magic mirror could also float/move on its own so ignoring that part). Like a more old style phone where it's attached to the wall instead of having the mirror in your pocket.


I can't seem to find the base rules for the outsider type anywhere.


Blackguard Paladin says that it treats it's weapons as "cursed," seemingly suggesting that it can bypass DR or something, but there's no other reference to "cursed" weapons as anything positive in all of Kirthfinder I think.


Eshkeval, the Card Archivist wrote:
Blackguard Paladin says that it treats it's weapons as "cursed," seemingly suggesting that it can bypass DR or something, but there's no other reference to "cursed" weapons as anything positive in all of Kirthfinder I think.

SHould be "corrupt," not "cursed." See Bless Weapon in Appendix 8A.


Serghar Cromwell wrote:
I can't seem to find the base rules for the outsider type anywhere.

Mostly I'd been treating it as an NPC class consisting of d10 HD, full BAB, 6 skill points, +1 natural armor/2 racial HD. Any other abilities are gained through templates or class levels.


So, my latest project is the cleric. I started converting the domain powers to spell-like abilities, using the spell construction rules. The idea was that I'd give a "domain feat" at 1st , 4th, 8th, etc., and you'd use it to simulate whatever domain powers you were interested in, by way of Magical Talent (domain spell), Magical Array, etc.

One side effect was increasing the domain spells lists, so as to include all the domain power simulating spells.

After a bit of that, I realized it was kind of fun to more drastically expand the domain spells lists, after the fashion of the 2nd ed. D&D "spheres of influence." Instead of every cleric having access to almost every spell, they'd get access to an abridged list of general cleric spells, plus the spells from each of their domains. The beauty of that is that you can use those same lists for incarnates and sorcerers and so on.

Honestly, I felt like the loss of 2 caster levels over the course of their progression was good enough to make up for their unlimited spell access, so I think I'll keep that as an optional variant, not part of the main rules, unless the response is overwhelmingly positive.


As an Archivist, I'm somewhat intrigued. Free spells are always nice. I'd likely be willing to try it out if you fleshed the rules out a bit more.


I was leaning towards a similar treatment of clerics in my own house rules, alongside a heavier emphasis on alternate modes of channel energy. Felt like it gave a great deal more character to the gods and what it meant to worship a god of battle vs a god of healing, for example. Also helped by my adoption of a strain/injury healing variant reducing the necessity of all clerics having access to healing spells.

My thought was to unlock additional domains over the course of leveling; a cleric would start with two domains and a handful of generic spells as they are now, but by level 20 they would have unlocked all of the domains associated with their deity as their faith amd understanding grew.


Eshkeval, the Card Archivist wrote:
As an Archivist, I'm somewhat intrigued. Free spells are always nice. I'd likely be willing to try it out if you fleshed the rules out a bit more.

Not sure yet how it would work with archivists -- they already have spellbooks (aka prayer books or whatever) as a limitation on spells known. I'd rather not ditch that entirely. Then again, they get lots of extra domains as they level, so only getting spells in their domains wouldn't be as big of a limitation on them, so it might work out OK.


Vil-hatarn wrote:
My thought was to unlock additional domains over the course of leveling; a cleric would start with two domains and a handful of generic spells as they are now, but by level 20 they would have unlocked all of the domains associated with their deity as their faith and understanding grew.

Here's what I have now:

Revised Cleric wrote:

Domains: Your faith influences your values, how others see you, and what magic you can perform. You have two options:

  • General Clerics: Choose any two domains from Appendix A. These are assumed to be indicative of some cause you espouse; the specific details can be established by you.

  • Clerics of Specific Deities: Choose one deity-specific domain from Appendix B. You also gain access to two of the major domains (Appendix A) listed as being granted by that deity. If you later gain access to an additional domain through the Domain Access feat, it must be chosen from among the other domains granted by your deity.
  • The "deity-specific domains" are ones without enough breadth to justify selecting them, if a third of your spells are going to be drawn from that list. The Dwarf domain is a prime example of that.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Vil-hatarn wrote:
    My thought was to unlock additional domains over the course of leveling; a cleric would start with two domains and a handful of generic spells as they are now, but by level 20 they would have unlocked all of the domains associated with their deity as their faith and understanding grew.

    Here's what I have now:

    Revised Cleric wrote:

    Domains: Your faith influences your values, how others see you, and what magic you can perform. You have two options:

  • General Clerics: Choose any two domains from Appendix A. These are assumed to be indicative of some cause you espouse; the specific details can be established by you.

  • Clerics of Specific Deities: Choose one deity-specific domain from Appendix B. You also gain access to two of the major domains (Appendix A) listed as being granted by that deity. If you later gain access to an additional domain through the Domain Access feat, it must be chosen from among the other domains granted by your deity.
  • The "deity-specific domains" are ones without enough breadth to justify selecting them, if a third of your spells are going to be drawn from that list. The Dwarf domain is a prime example of that.

    That's a decent way of handling it as well, particularly the flexibility to include two tiers of domains.


    I was thinking about KF's Endurance skill recently and how it overrides most (all?) Con checks from the base PF rules and was wondering: have you considered creating an analogous skill (let's call it Might) for Strength checks, potentially allowing for elimination of the attribute check entirely and addressing the weirdness of physical characters not improving significantly in this area at higher levels? The flipside is that it would be somewhat narrow, applying mostly to attempts to break or force an object, or playing a similar role as Escape Artist as an alternate way to break out of certain conditions, but perhaps additional applications could be found.


    Vil-hatarn wrote:
    I was thinking about KF's Endurance skill recently and how it overrides most (all?) Con checks from the base PF rules and was wondering: have you considered creating an analogous skill (let's call it Might) for Strength checks, potentially allowing for elimination of the attribute check entirely and addressing the weirdness of physical characters not improving significantly in this area at higher levels? The flipside is that it would be somewhat narrow, applying mostly to attempts to break or force an object, or playing a similar role as Escape Artist as an alternate way to break out of certain conditions, but perhaps additional applications could be found.

    Maybe just tie this into Athlethics checks?


    Can someone help explain to me how do Power Conduits (Chapter 6, page 28).

    Can these spell slots that you get (calculated from spells per day table 2, ie the spontaneous spellcater one), be used by wizards to prepare spells?

    If not, what do you do with them?


    I also do have a question about the Monk's unarmed mastery feat. The way it is written, the ability only works for unarmed attacks. If so, it seems like a nonbo to allow monks to use weapons, yet give no apparent way to have Unarmed Mastery's precision damage apply to weapons that the monk uses.

    Is there any way to bypass this limitation? Or have I missed something obvious?


    Tarek Alatrach GRC wrote:

    I also do have a question about the Monk's unarmed mastery feat. The way it is written, the ability only works for unarmed attacks. If so, it seems like a nonbo to allow monks to use weapons, yet give no apparent way to have Unarmed Mastery's precision damage apply to weapons that the monk uses.

    Is there any way to bypass this limitation? Or have I missed something obvious?

    Based on a few posts from several years ago, I believe the intent is that the Weapon Form bonus applies to wielded/manufactured weapons and Unarmed Mastery applies to unarmed strikes, in which case the damage output is comparable between the two choices (+1/2 level vs. +[1/4 level]d6). If so, then the lack of ability to add Unarmed Mastery to weapon attacks makes sense. The exact wording of Weapon Form doesn't seem to exclude unarmed strikes, though, so I could be wrong.


    wynterknight wrote:
    Based on a few posts from several years ago, I believe the intent is that the Weapon Form bonus applies to wielded/manufactured weapons and Unarmed Mastery applies to unarmed strikes, in which case the damage output is comparable between the two choices (+1/2 level vs. +[1/4 level]d6). If so, then the lack of ability to add Unarmed Mastery to weapon attacks makes sense. The exact wording of Weapon Form doesn't seem to exclude unarmed strikes, though, so I could be wrong.

    I can see how you say that, but take for instance the exotic proficiency in Gauntlets, which lets you apply unarmed mastery. It's clearly presented as a weapon, so it should be able to stack weapon form and unarmed mastery. Further, one can also argue that monk's fists are "weapons".


    Tarek Alatrach GRC wrote:
    Can someone help explain to me how do Power Conduits (Chapter 6, page 28). Can these spell slots that you get (calculated from spells per day table 2, ie the spontaneous spellcater one), be used by wizards to prepare spells? If not, what do you do with them?

    No, they cannot. They're of no use except to spontaneous casters, or for those who have some other use for (non-prepared) daily spell slots.


    Weapon Form applies to unarmed attacks.
    Unarmed mastery does not apply to weapon attacks (but, that said, there are plenty of other ways in the rules to add precision damage to weapon attacks).


    The Daggerspell Shaper rogue general talent is the only multiclassing talent that doesn't grant synergy towards the rogue's sneak attack progresion. Is this intentional, or just an oversight?


    The Bestiary and the Druid's Mark of the Wild ability contradict each other: The Bestiary says animals increase their CR by +1 per 3 additional HD, but Mark of the Wild says to increase CR by +1 per 2 additional HD. Which is correct?


    wynterknight wrote:
    The Bestiary and the Druid's Mark of the Wild ability contradict each other: The Bestiary says animals increase their CR by +1 per 3 additional HD, but Mark of the Wild says to increase CR by +1 per 2 additional HD. Which is correct?
    You may be looking at an obsolete version of the rules.
    Druid wrote:
    You can also choose to advance your companion(s) by racial hit dice, as described in the Animals section of the Bestiary.

    Latest rules are here.


    wynterknight wrote:
    The Daggerspell Shaper rogue general talent is the only multiclassing talent that doesn't grant synergy towards the rogue's sneak attack progresion. Is this intentional, or just an oversight?

    The latter.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    You may be looking at an obsolete version of the rules.
    Druid wrote:
    You can also choose to advance your companion(s) by racial hit dice, as described in the Animals section of the Bestiary.

    Good grief, I totally was. I had downloaded all the files a while back, but I've been checking the drive for other stuff, don't know why I didn't for that one. Thanks for the answers!


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    YAY updates! Kirth just know that you are awesome and I thank you again for the work you do.


    I'm playing around with the Rogue skill trick list, updating it for myself with the new Kirthfinder levels and adding some stuff. What are your general guidelines for what gets included and what doesn't? I'm mostly going by gut feel right now. In a lot of ways the Rogue feels like the 3.5 Warlock--their buffs are almost all self-only and they have a lot of charms, sensory and movement abilities, skill boosters, and miscellaneous utility and telekinetic effects; their combat-related skill tricks, however, are basically focused on enemy debuffs and ways to make sneak attacking easier/stronger as opposed to granting new damage options. It seems like they shouldn't have flashy magical abilities--summons and major conjuration effects, gross polymorph spells, and pew-pew evocations are all (mostly) excluded, but other areas (and some evocations, actually) are less clear. Craft (Alchemy) could honestly include a lot of acid and fire spells, Handle Animal and Survival could include a bunch of stuff in the Druid's wheelhouse, and the Endurance and Heal skill tricks could thematically include basically every cure and condition relieving spell, but a lot of these feel kinda wrong for some reason. Like, could a rogue choose Breath of Life or Cleanse as a 5th level Heal skill trick? They've got Fog Cloud and Sound Burst as apparent analogues of smokesticks and thunderstones, so would Acid Splash be an acceptable analogue of an acid flask? How about Melf's Acid Arrow or Orb of Acid? Similarly, what about Scorching Ray, Fire Shuriken, Fire Seeds, or Fireball as dramatic extrapolations of alchemist's fire?


    wynterknight wrote:
    They've got Fog Cloud and Sound Burst as apparent analogues of smokesticks and thunderstones, so would Acid Splash be an acceptable analogue of an acid flask? How about Melf's Acid Arrow or Orb of Acid? Similarly, what about Scorching Ray, Fire Shuriken, Fire Seeds, or Fireball as dramatic extrapolations of alchemist's fire?

    A lot of that gets touched on in Appendix 6A (Item Compendium). It's totally reasonable to put those as skill tricks relying on the Craft (Alchemy) skill.


    Wait maybe I missed something fairly major but.. Rogues with Fireball?


    Warriorking9001 wrote:
    Wait maybe I missed something fairly major but.. Rogues with Fireball?

    Rogues with flasks full of explosive liquid = rogues with fireball.


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    I find KF absolutely fascinating, a real monument of gaming excellence. I'm mulling over what I'm going to do when PF1e officially goes out of print in August; this might become my 3x 'go-to' game.

    If the esteemed Kirth, and/or any other KF aficionados, had time or inclination to offer some opinions on the following, I'd be grateful:

    I'm thinking about KF for specific genre games -- how would it handle, or would you suggest handling:

    Desert World stuff -- specifically Dark Sun, or more broadly Egyptian, Arabian, Mesopotamian kind of games. I'm particularly interested in how you'd do the DS races and classes in KF, particularly defiling/preserving magic, elemental clerics, and advanced being progressions for dragons, avangions, and elemental lords.

    Eberron, or anything with a technological component like gunslingers.


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    Sebecloki wrote:


    Eberron, or anything with a technological component like gunslingers.

    From Chapter 6A>

    Essentially any magical, alchemical, or technological item can be designed and priced using the item creation guidelines in Chapter 6 and/or the spells construction rules presented in Chapter 8.

    Don't know much about Dark Sun so I can't help you much there but there are racial classes which can make you become closer to a monster which sounds like something you are looking for.


    What about Psionics -- anyone have any ideas for that (necessary for Dark Sun)?


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Warriorking9001 wrote:
    Wait maybe I missed something fairly major but.. Rogues with Fireball?
    Rogues with flasks full of explosive liquid = rogues with fireball.

    Oh, that makes sense, although I thought the flasks of explosive liquid one was what the Bombardier talent was for.


    Sebecloki wrote:


    What about Psionics -- anyone have any ideas for that (necessary for Dark Sun)?

    In what relevant way do psions differ from spellcasters?

    Warriorking9001 wrote:
    Oh, that makes sense, although I thought the flasks of explosive liquid one was what the Bombardier talent was for.

    Both produce a very similar result flavor wise but a Grenadier does not have to roll to see whether he gets to toss a bomb or not and can throw multiple of them in a turn.


    Sebecloki wrote:
    What about Psionics -- anyone have any ideas for that (necessary for Dark Sun)?

    I've been treating each discipline as a sorcerer bloodline. Works surprisingly well. Also, for fans of non-psionic/magic transparency, the Psionic Spell metamagic feat from Chapter 8.


    Sebecloki wrote:
    I'm particularly interested in how you'd do the DS races and classes in KF, particularly defiling/preserving magic, elemental clerics, and advanced being progressions for dragons, avangions, and elemental lords.

    I have almost zero familiarity with Dark Sun, but given a chance I'll be happy to look into it. One thing I'm finding is that most things are fairly easy to convert, given the KF tools already in place.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Sebecloki wrote:
    I'm particularly interested in how you'd do the DS races and classes in KF, particularly defiling/preserving magic, elemental clerics, and advanced being progressions for dragons, avangions, and elemental lords.
    I have almost zero familiarity with Dark Sun, but given a chance I'll be happy to look into it. One thing I'm finding is that most things are fairly easy to convert, given the KF tools already in place.

    I'd certainly be interested in your considered thoughts on the matter if you had time/interest. What would you like me to link you to? Basic fluff or some 3.5/PF conversion documents to look at?

    Dark Sun was the 2e setting I started DnD with (I began roleplaying with Earthdawn when I was 8 years old, but only got into DnD like a year or so later). The main points of the 2e setting that people try to recreate are the characters were all more powerful (stats went up to 24 and you started at level 3), magic was based on sucking the life force out of the planet, there are no gods, just elemental clerics, and pisonics are common.

    Here's some links if you want to take a gander at it:

    1d4chan: Dark Sun is a pretty good setting overview.

    Dark Sun 3.0 and 3.5 Conversion (Athas.org)

    Pathfinder Dark Sun Conversion (Whinehurst)

    Pathfinder Dark Sun Conversion (Paizo Boards)


    Would anyone be interested in forming a discord server for kirthfinder discussions? https://discord.gg/tDKntwr Join up and let's have some discussion there! I've just made it so it doesn't look pro or anything, yet!

    I've been running kirthfinder for a good while now (year-long campaign now), and there are a few things that I've done to add/homebrew a few things on it. If anyone would like to take a look and give an opinion:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yVaEFHwOirlOoUa_AmfWWU0PTfsZ80tf6cQ3OP6 bWp0/edit?usp=sharing

    Here.

    Because in my setting, there are fairly common races with the ability to fly with wings, I appended the rules on flying so that it is considered as a strenuous activity.

    Further, I created guns as a weapon, not a magical item. Because honestly, I think creating them as magic items is unfun and also quite s+!*. I modelled them after the pathfinder weapons, but so I am unsure of their balance (didn't have much chance to test them since the area the players are in do not really have guns, yet.


    Anybody have any trouble opening up the Kirthfinder google drive documents? Or is it just me?


    Kaouse wrote:
    Anybody have any trouble opening up the Kirthfinder google drive documents? Or is it just me?

    No problems here.


    Yeah, the problem cleared up real quick. I dunno why, but I couldn't open up any of the Kirthfinder docs, but I was able to open up other google drive documents, so it was weird.

    That said, problem fixed itself in like, 10 minutes.


    Hey Kirth, what do you think of the idea of making it so that people who fall unconscious, don't actually "fall" until they reach their turn in the initiative? I'd imagine that they'd just teeter on their feet like a Mortal Kombat character does before the "Finish Him!" animations.

    Would it be worth it to slaughter that sacred cow? Cuz I kind of think that your character is being penalized enough for loosing HP, and having to fall and then get back up even if you are healed before your turn is kind of a double jeopardy, IMHO.


    Kaouse wrote:
    Hey Kirth, what do you think of the idea of making it so that people who fall unconscious, don't actually "fall" until they reach their turn in the initiative? I'd imagine that they'd just teeter on their feet like a Mortal Kombat character does before the "Finish Him!" animations.

    What you describe is what happens when you have 0 hp remaining, or less than 0 but make an Endurance check to stay on your feet.

    Kaouse wrote:
    Would it be worth it to slaughter that sacred cow? Cuz I kind of think that your character is being penalized enough for loosing HP, and having to fall and then get back up even if you are healed before your turn is kind of a double jeopardy, IMHO.

    The intent is for this sort of concern to lead melee combatants to invest in Endurance.


    Question on siege equipment. I did not find any mention of them in the equipment section. With the buffed up weapons, I think that they'd deserve a section of their own there, or at least them being addressed somehow.

    I do feel that siege equipment in default pathfinder are somewhat undertuned as well.

    How would you do them in kirthfinder?

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