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A bit more confusing, but how about renaming Spellcraft to something else (or folding it into Arcana) and taking Spellcraft for your new skill?Spellcraft does include Knowledge: Arcana in these rules. It keeps the "Spellcraft" name for the sake of familiarity, and because "craft" suggests tinkering (which it covers), and desn't suggest "sheer force of will in hurling a spell."
So you're looking for something like "Potency" or "Puissance"?
Kirth,
Just noticed that very few of your bardic inspirations designate whether they are (Ex) or (Su).
Just noticed that very few of your bardic inspirations designate whether they are (Ex) or (Su).
Bardic Inspiration is specified as (Su) in the main class feature heading. Any designated as (Ex) would be exceptions to this general rule (I'm not seeing any off hand). Any (Su) notations for individual inspirations should be deleted.
So you're looking for something like "Potency" or "Puissance"?
Yeah, but a lot less flowery that "puissance." As noted above, I retained the name "Sleight of Hand," and did not rename that skill as "Legerdemain" or "Prestidigitation." Likewise, I'd like to keep standard English names for other skills, not names borrowed from French or Latin or whatever. Class features can get flowery names, but skill names in the core rules should be straightforward, in my opinion.
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Searched the thread and maybe I just missed it how does one determine Social Class?
Second as to a good name for a spell skill maybe Spell Weaving?
Searched the thread and maybe I just missed it how does one determine Social Class?
Roll 3d6.
One more lack of search ability question. I can't find the dicussions on converting APs you had mentioned to me was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction.
I've already been updating NPC stat blocks based on their tactics but just want to see if there is any info on the following.
1. XP (I figure since most AP's have a list of what level the party should be by when the best bet here is to just level them at the appropriate time.)
2. Treasure (Since they way your system handles magic items is differnt than the expected run of sell what you don't need, I was wondering if there are any post i can read to help here.)
3. Single enemy encounters and adjusting to actually make them a fight. (This is mostly an issue for casters since without back up they might never get a spell off.)
Thanks in advance and sorry if I'm being bothersome.
P.S. If anyone would like I can create a thread for the conversions to help others the AP is Carrion Crown.
1. XP (I figure since most AP's have a list of what level the party should be by when the best bet here is to just level them at the appropriate time.)
2. Treasure (Since they way your system handles magic items is differnt than the expected run of sell what you don't need, I was wondering if there are any post i can read to help here.)
3. Single enemy encounters and adjusting to actually make them a fight. (This is mostly an issue for casters since without back up they might never get a spell off.)
1. See Introduction. I do not run APs straight through; I add stuff to them and integrate them into the ongoing campaign. I suspect straight Pathfinder would be a much better system to use for straight AP runs.
2. If you use Kirthfinder rules, simply follow them. PCs will keep the items they like and ditch the ones they don't in order to free up mojo.
3. Add bodyguards.
Kirth,
I looked over the druid.
You still list life bond in your type of bonds table, but it seems you merged it with the domain bond. This also comes up because there are some some life bond references in the druid feats, likely they should change to channel energy.
Looking over the Animal initiation may want to update some of the bonus feats (like greater wrestling maneuvers).
Finally, for the spirit shaman the description seems like only they can use the dispell chaos/law/evil/good spell to end possessions, is there a reason you did not just errata the spell for all the classes with access to it.
Baphomet in the cleric document in missing his first level granted spell and the spell level number progression is funky (1st 2nd .... 15th 17th).
Cyth-vsug is missing the 11th level granted spell and creeping doom should likely be 13th not 7th.
For rogue's slippery mind ability, do they need the iron will feat before the greater iron will portion of the ability kicks in or can they wave the prereq?
Thanks,
Chris
FYI, my own project is in the planning stages here.
Nice!
1. XP (I figure since most AP's have a list of what level the party should be by when the best bet here is to just level them at the appropriate time.)
2. Treasure (Since they way your system handles magic items is differnt than the expected run of sell what you don't need, I was wondering if there are any post i can read to help here.)
3. Single enemy encounters and adjusting to actually make them a fight. (This is mostly an issue for casters since without back up they might never get a spell off.)
1. See Introduction. I do not run APs straight through; I add stuff to them and integrate them into the ongoing campaign. I suspect straight Pathfinder would be a much better system to use for straight AP runs.
2. If you use Kirthfinder rules, simply follow them. PCs will keep the items they like and ditch the ones they don't in order to free up mojo.
3. Add bodyguards.
Sounds good thanks once again.
Also after having made characters with my group of 4 we have one guy who likes it but is confused 2 people who can't wait to get started, and my wife who has threatened to beat me about the head and shoulders for not finding this sooner.
Might never use this, but I admire the work.
Kirth, was it intentional that shurikens (now darts) require Quickdraw to full attack with?
Check DC ... Standard Weapons ... Hidden Weapons
11 ... Swift action ... Move action
16 ... Free action 1/rd. ... Swift action
21 ... Free action 2/rd. ... Free action 1/rd.
26 ... Free action 3/rd. ... Free action 2/rd.
+5 ... (etc.)Most referees, to save pointless dice rolling, will allow you to take 10 on these checks (even through this would normally not be possible due to stress), so that a character with BAB +11 and the Rapid Shot feat would need a +16 Sleight of Hand bonus to throw a weapon in hand, then draw and throw three more weapons in the same round.
So, Quick Draw has been rolled into Sleight of Hand. In order to make iterative attacks with sheathed or hidden throwing weapons, there are minimum Sleight of Hand requirements listed. However, if all of the throwing weapons in question are "in hand" from the get-go, there's no minimum requirement listed -- it's intended for when you've got to pull them from sheaths, belts, etc. One would assume that darts (and shuriken) are small enough to have a handful of in your off-hand, so I'd allow full iterative attacks in that case without the skill requirements. On the other hand, if your darts/shuriken/throwing daggers/whatever are hidden in the lining of your cloak (a la Vlad Taltos), then the Sleight of Hand requirements would be as listed.
Going to file that one under 'Yes'. :)
"Yes" if they're hidden/sheathed; "no" if they're all in hand.
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Hi Kirth! Still going through a lot of the new "edition", finding a mix of things I like and dislike. It will certainly be interesting to compare what I wind up with in comparison to what you use in a year. :) Had my first character death the other day; we're now down a Cleric and up an Incarnate (DMPC healbot... To try to avoid the near TPKs we keep having) and a Sorcerer.
Anyway, I came to ask about daggers, spiked gauntlets, punching daggers and possibly others. They all refer to a feat called First Blood which seems to have disappeared from this version of the houserules. Looking back at the old files shows it was supposed to give sneak attack on the first round of combat. War this feat purposely dropped or accidentally left out? If the former, what should replace that feat on these weapons?
By the way, would you allow close weapons (especially gauntlets) to qualify for a number of the feats that require Exotic proficiency in unarmed strikes?
Hey, was using the rules from back in january in a couple of sessions, and it was lotsa fun :D
1. Just looked through the final version, and have an issue with the spellcasting table shared by all characters:
Why is the lvl 1 entry 0+1?
It feels really strange for freshly made spontanous casters to know only the bonus spell from their bloodline/mystery or in the bard's case hypnotism. (except the sorcerer who gets another with expanded arcana - but why don't the bard and incarnate get it as well?)
I suppose using the favored class bonus helps to get more spells known, but the poor bard doesn't have that option and is stuck with hypnotism as his only spell :O.
It's strange that people are forced to a specific spell at creation when your design motto is "more choices" ;)
2. On another note: isn't that favored class bonus a bit to strong? or was it specificaly intended to close the gap between wizard and sorcerer etc by giving them 20 more spell levels?
3. Some pages ago you were discussing, if spells that normally affect only targets with HD 4 or less and simillar should affect HD 3+your CL now - did anybody try that out? and if so, is it broken?
Regarding for example sleep and deep slumber, i suspect some hightened spell rules could work (kind of like with the dmg cap / lvl table).
4. This way deep slumber would just be the hightened version of sleep.
I do see a problem though, since some spells use such a cap (example: sleep, cause fear), while others of a comparable level don't (example: hideous laughter). Is there some system behind this which i just can't grasp?
Oh and great job :D
One more thing i noticed:
The Spellstrike feat and the Channel Spell Metamagic Feat essentially have the exacly same effect, except that channel spell also costs a spell level.
Is this redundancy wanted because of some other reasons (like vital strike, rogue's sneak attack, etc) or it just an oversight?
Personaly i would just ignore the metamagic feat and use Spellstrike instead. I can't envision a scenario where it would actually be better in some way.
1. It will certainly be interesting to compare what I wind up with in comparison to what you use in a year.
2. a feat called First Blood which seems to have disappeared from this version of the houserules. Looking back at the old files shows it was supposed to give sneak attack on the first round of combat. War this feat purposely dropped or accidentally left out? If the former, what should replace that feat on these weapons? 3. By the way, would you allow close weapons (especially gauntlets) to qualify for a number of the feats that require Exotic proficiency in unarmed strikes?
1. I'm very much looking forward to that!
2. First Blood got the axe in one of my frequent purges to eliminate extraneous sub-systems. One option would be to simply replace it with sneak attack +1d6. Another would be to use the Deft Strike feat for some of the weapons that otherwise gave you First Blood. I'll post some specific suggestions when I get a chance.3. Probably, but I'd adjuducate them on a case-by-case basis using the guidlines presented above.
1. Just looked through the final version, and have an issue with the spellcasting table shared by all characters: Why is the lvl 1 entry 0+1? It feels really strange for freshly made spontanous casters to know only the bonus spell from their bloodline/mystery or in the bard's case hypnotism.
2. On another note: isn't that favored class bonus a bit to strong? or was it specificaly intended to close the gap between wizard and sorcerer etc by giving them 20 more spell levels?
3. Some pages ago you were discussing, if spells that normally affect only targets with HD 4 or less and simillar should affect HD 3+your CL now - did anybody try that out?
1. (a) Sorcerers get an additional 1st level spell known from the Expanded Arcana class feature, so your statement about them only getting a bloodline spell is inaccurate. (b) Incarnates were intentionally reworked so that the focus is more on their mystery and less on their spells; the progression reflects that. (c) Bards were never intended to be primary spellcasters anyway.
2. Yes, in conjunction with Expanded Arcana, I agree it's too much; I'd scale it back to something like what the Incarnate gets.3. IIRC, that change was specific to the monk's dazing strike, not universal to spells affecting 4 HD.
One more thing i noticed: The Spellstrike feat and the Channel Spell Metamagic Feat essentially have the exacly same effect, except that channel spell also costs a spell level. Is this redundancy wanted because of some other reasons (like vital strike, rogue's sneak attack, etc) or it just an oversight? Personaly i would just ignore the metamagic feat and use Spellstrike instead. I can't envision a scenario where it would actually be better in some way.
Originally, the overlap was so that you could use Innate Metamagic to apply things like your eldritch blast to melee attacks, for example. However, simply rewording Spellstrike so that it applies to spells or spell-like abilities is a much simpler way of doing that, and I'd therefore advise that everyone simply revise the wording of Spellstrike accordingly, and then get rid of Channel Spell entirely.
I'll post some specific suggestions when I get a chance.
Dagger
Dagger, Punching
Gauntlet, Spiked
I'm running a Kirthfinder PbP for those interested in learning the system Here. Anyone interested in that campaign, keep out of the following spoilers.
** spoiler omitted **
That sounds awesome.
** spoiler omitted **That sounds awesome.
Always nice to have someone's approval. That info is amazingly useful to the campaign, it's nice to have a hotbed of politics already set up for this campaign.
Sorry for the block of text, any part of that jump out at you as not making sense?
Sorry for the block of text, any part of that jump out at you as not making sense?
There's a good bit of it that wouldn't necessarily match previous campaign play, but like I said, canon is overrated. As far as an outline for a campaign goes, I think it sounds great!
To satisfy any academic curiosity, here's how things played out in the previous campaigns:
Keep on the Borderlands:
Queen Kacia:
Some of what I posted earlier is also described in Chapter 1 of the house rules under "Campaign Setting" -- there's a map there as well, if you haven't already seen it. For more on Estren, there's a PBP currently based there which you can find HERE.
Finally, the Gamer in Houston thread, starting on around page 4, morphed into a discussion of the home game and eventually the houserules project as well; there's a lot of stuff there for people curious about how the rules were developed and how game play went.
Hey something that came up last session:
When a character gains a familiar that grants lightning reflexes or one of the other save progression feats, but already has that for the class that grants the familiar, how do you deal with that?
Since the character in question is multiclass i thougt
about giving the save progression to his second class, which lacks it.
Or should i just ignore the bonus feat? (the familiar is chosen mainly for flavor reasons and the player doesn't want to change it to another)
I also thought about giving Improved Lightning Reflexes instead.
Which is the best solution in your opinion?
Hey something that came up last session:
When a character gains a familiar that grants lightning reflexes or one of the other save progression feats, but already has that for the class that grants the familiar, how do you deal with that? Since the character in question is multiclass i thought about giving the save progression to his second class, which lacks it.
You have faster than normal reflexes.
Benefit: When calculating your base Reflex save, all of your class levels and/or racial hit dice count towards the good progression.
That said, if you're grabbing a familiar as a ranger lore, for example, and you really wanted a fox for some reason, and never intend to multiclass, then I'd allow you to (a) trade for Improved Lightning Reflexes, or (b) trade for some other feat that's thematically-appropriate and that we both agree is reasonable.
Giving Improved Lightning Reflexes would be the best option.
Since Lightning Reflexes automatically applies to the character's other class, the default feat is fine in that particular case. See above.
hum somehow i got the save progression feats completely wrong it seems XD
Ok thanks i suppose i will go with Improved Lightning Reflexes here.
In the Beta playtest, before Intuition saves and the fractional progression system were added, you had it right. But per my vow to the players at the table, I abstained from voting and went with majority rule on including them.
To calculate saving throws, total all levels in classes with a good save progression in that category. Total all levels in classes with a poor save progression in that category. Add the two together, with modifiers for attributes, resistance, etc. to determine the final saving throw modifier.
That kinda runs contrary to the wording of the feats themselves:
When calculating your base Reflex (or whatever) save, all of your class levels and/or racial hit dice count towards the good progression.
since having a good progression in any class would equate to having a good progression in all classes, the first quote should be pointless/leftover from beta, right?
BTW: i don't know what you mean with fractional progression system, could you explain that? (propably missed something ^^)
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I think the sticking point is 'class levels' refer to only that single class. If it said 'character levels' then it would be all levels, not just the single class.
(Fractional is shorthand for the way we calculate saving throws. It's a bit misleading, as an actual fractional system would have bonuses like 1 1/2, or 3/4, and then you total them all up to detemine your saving throw and round it off. However, adding the levels together does the same thing without the fractional addition, which no one enjoys.)
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Kirth, it's a little late for Kirthfinder, but what do you think of adjusting armors to follow weapon proficiencies example? Characters with higher proficiency get more out of an armor than others, etc? Fighters technically get this already, but I'm looking at heavy armor discussions and how light armor users tend to get more out of the deal. (The Den is having a field day with the D&DNext playtest rules and how high Dex light armor is way better than heavy, and medium armor is a pointless category.)
To calculate saving throws, total all levels in classes with a good save progression in that category. Total all levels in classes with a poor save progression in that category. Add the two together, with modifiers for attributes, resistance, etc. to determine the final saving throw modifier.That kinda runs contrary to the wording of the feats themselves:
When calculating your base Reflex (or whatever) save, all of your class levels and/or racial hit dice count towards the good progression.
When you have a feat, things are different than if you don't have a feat. Both quotes you posted are now correct, as of the final rules. In the Beta playtest, classes providing save feats was the model used, but again, that was overturned by vote of the players in the home game, and the rules now posted by TOZ are pretty well up-to-date. Be sure not to mix-and-match Beta and Final rules, or they won't work!
EXAMPLE:
Say I'm a fighter 5/wizard 5 with no feat. I have 5 levels' worth of Good progression in Fort saves (+4) and 5 levels' worth of Poor progression in Fort saves (+1), for a total Fort bonus of +5. That's what we mean by a "fractional" progression -- part is good, part poor, and they total up to your bonus.
Now say I select the Great Fortitude feat, which "resets" all progressions as Good. I now have 10 levels' worth of Good Fort progression, for a bonus of +7.
Ok i suppose NOW i got it XD
So i suppose my bard/incarnate that picked up a weasel familiar will just get lightning reflexes as normal and then get it applied to all classes. Since she wants to go oldschool mystic theurge that will benefit her a lot later :D
Since she wants to go oldschool mystic theurge that will benefit her a lot later :D
"Oldschool" would be a 1e demihuman cleric/wizard, but I doubt that's what you mean! The fact that you can get theurgic casting (and both spells lists) with a Kirthfinder bard/incarnate means there's really no need for a Mystic Theurge PrC.
EDIT: If I had a better idea as to what you were shooting for, I could probably make recommendations.
well i informed the player about the theurgy option, but she prefers getting the spell progression in both classes as per mystic theurge instead of just expanding the spellist.
i dont't think there's a way to do that without the PrC
btw, yeah i didn't reference to the oldschool of 1e ^^ wasn't even around at that time i think ^^
well i informed the player about the theurgy option, but she prefers getting the spell progression in both classes as per mystic theurge instead of just expanding the spellist.
I did away with the mystic theurge PrC because, in play, it represented an egregiously selfish way to hurt your teammates -- casting as a cleric 2/sorcerer 3, for example, is so much worse than casting as a 5th level cleric or sorcerer that you've totally gimped yourself, and the rest of the party needed to work twice as hard to make up the difference.
That said, there is one way to simulate a 3e MT -- by using the Arcanist cleric domain:
ARCANIST DOMAIN
Variant Channeling: You can apply any metamagic feats you know to your channeled energy, with no increase in activation time. Doing so reduces the number of channeling dice by a number equal to the final spell level increase of the metamagic applied.
If you have the eldritch blast ability (see Sorcerer, q.v.) and you channel energy of the same energy type, you can apply your improved blast and greater blast improvements (and any other Innate Metamagic feats you have that apply to your eldritch blast) to your channeled energy as well, without reducing the number of channeling dice.
Domain Spells: 1st—magic aura or magic missile, 3rd—see invisibility, 5th—arcane sight, 7th—arcane eye or sending, 9th—plane shift, 11th—analyze dweomer or greater dispel magic, 13th—greater arcane sight, 15th—mind bank, 17th—time stop.
Mystic Theurge (Ex): Choose one of the following options; once this choice has been made, you cannot change it.
a. Your cleric/archivist levels and your sorcerer/ wizard levels provide Weak spell theurgy towards each other; or
b. You combine cleric and arcane casting, with arcane class levels providing Strong theurgy towards your divine casting progression. You retain access to both spell lists; however, the maximum level of arcane spells you can access is equal to your arcane casting class level, so that a cleric 8/wizard 4 has a spell capacity of 11th, but can cast only 0 – 4th level arcane spells.
Combined Spells (Su): If you chose option A (weak synergy) at 1st level, then starting at 4th level you can prepare and cast spells from one of your spellcasting classes using the available slots from any of your other spellcasting classes. Spells prepared or cast in this way take up a slot one level higher than they originally occupied. The components of these spells do not change, but they otherwise follow the rules for the spellcasting class used to cast the spell.
Spontaneous spellcasters can only select spells that they have prepared that day using non-spontaneous classes for this ability, but can do so even if the spells have already been cast. For example, a cleric/sorcerer can use this ability to spontaneously cast a bless spell using a 2nd level sorcerer spell slot, if the character had a prepared bless spell using a 1st level cleric spell slot, even if that spell had already been cast that day.
Spontaneous Spells (Sp): Starting at 8th level, your theurgy works similarly to that of a sorcerer with the Arcane bloodline with the theurgy option listed under the prepare spells ability.
Spell Synthesis (Su): At 20th level, once per day you can cast two spells, one from each of your spellcasting class lists, using one action. Both of the spells must have the same casting time. You can make any decisions concerning the spells independently. Any target affected by both of the spells takes a –2 penalty on saves made against each spell. You receive a +2 bonus on Concentration checks made to overcome spell resistance with these two spells.
Kirth for the monk
Your temple weapon can be any weapon you and the DM agree on correct?
For the monk sutras did you really want both attribute development and the advanced sutra advanced conditioning? It would appear they would stack but they are so similar in design it seems a little weird.
For the enlightened fist and sacred fist options should the arcane and divine class levels add to your monk level for the purposes of your ki attack ability? (If they cannot then the improved ki attack advanced sutra would need to address the level caps discussed in the ki attack section, are the level caps character level or monk level and are they waived if you take the improved ki attack advanced sutra?)
Improved Ki attack references ki strike at the end of the first paragraph (in the middle of the section) and it should likely say ki attack.
Greater timeless step has the "you must already have the timeless step sutra" clause twice (in the begining and the end).
Do you want the monks mind blank advanced sutra to match the ranger indomitable mind ability (able to benefit from harmless spells but be a legal target for divination spells)?
Can the sacred fist deliver divine touch attack spells as ki strike powers like the enlightened fist can?
Is it intentional that the monks mettle sutra also grants immunity to fear? It may be better to break it into a separate sutra or at least make it a scaling ability.
Thanks
In the cleric document
I was comparing the archivist and the cleric, and the archivist seems to be giving up quite a bit. Had you considered giving archivists something like and sorcerer/battle sorcerer difference (more spells per day) and/or more channeling uses per day since they have access to more variant channeling abilities?
For the archery domain puissant archery still references the ranger archery combat style list you removed.
In the domains you still reference cleric levels, you could change them to cleric/archivist levels (or class levels since some other classes like monk and druid can gain access to some domains also).
For the destruction domain change the skill focus to craft: construction.
In the forge domain you grant a 4th and 8th level ability but no first level ability.
In the fury domain your variant channeling ability is used as a swift action correct?
For the luck domain exemplar of luck, did you want them to gain evasion and improved evasion? (rather than uncanny dodge or would you throw that in also?)
For the rune domain you reference craft: carving but in the bard and wizard document runes fall under the knowledge linguistics skill. Also under blast rune, runes are now discovered by the spellcraft skill rather than the perception skill.
Thanks, Christopher. Glad I haven't sent anything to the printer yet!
I'll look at everything you posted more carefully -- one thing I can answer now is this one:
For the monk sutras did you really want both attribute development and the advanced sutra advanced conditioning? It would appear they would stack but they are so similar in design it seems a little weird.
Attribute Development is an enhancement bonus, so it's intentionally a means of superseding the need for one or more "stat boost" items that monks are so desperate for in a core game. Advanced Conditioning, as an inherent bonus, takes the place of the usual tomes, etc. that are assumed at high levels. Together, they help mitigate the extreme gear-dependence of the core monk. Ki attack was given to them for the same reason, and so was the inertial armor ki power.
Has anyone tried converting guns over to the Kirthfinder system of profiencies?
Has anyone tried converting guns over to the Kirthfinder system of profiencies?
The question was asked of me and I deferred, because if you allow flintlocks, then you need to account for other (more tech-savvy) planes having developed uzis and rail guns. Probably the way to do that is to treat them a lot like magic items, so that a Glock is better than an old hog-leg in the same way that a +2 speed sword is better than a +1 sword. Until I can work out a reasonable system, though, I'm holding off entirely.