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This weekend during our game we were discussing how a PC who needs to Flank to be really effective can do it -- the PCs have struggled with tactics that get them flanking after round one.
And I thought a Cape of the Mounteback would be the best bet -- and wondered aloud how much one costs -- we figured about the same as a Ring of Freedom of Movement for a variety of reasons -- then found out it was only about 10 grand!!!
But it only lets the wearer Dimension Door once per day.
How much would it cost to get a that works 3 times per day?
How much would it cost to get a that works 3 times per day?
3 times as much.
It's a command word magic item with 1 charge a day (1/5th unlimited price). The charges per day keep that item from being super pricy. changing it to 3 a day would make it 3/5 the unlimited price (3 times what it was).
Have you considered acrobatics as a way of maneuvering around? Dimensional dooring to get into flanking position seems... kind of excessive and over complicated. For one, you can door somewhere but then can't act, so you'll use a turn just getting into position.
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The DC for Acrobatics checks is too high for this PC.
The DC is increased by each in-reach monster's CMB + the penalty for moving through a monster's square, and as a result the DC is prohibitively high. The PC usually needs to roll between 17 and 25 on the d20 to succeed.
Perhaps it occurs in this campaign because almost everything the PCs fight is Large and has reach -- well, and that the PC puts his Skill points in Knowledges and only has an average Acrobatics modifier. He goes first in initiative most encounters and gets his +4d6 damage for one round; then as everyone else (PC and NPC alike) loses their flat-footedness, the precision-damage PC cannot manuever to flank without provoking a couple Giants' attacks.
the Gang Up feat might be of use (APG): flank if two allies are also adjacent to the target.
That way you can pull off sneak attacks without having to run around the whole fight.
Shame is that you need combat expertise to get it.
maybe a ring of blinking ?
Get a Wand of Dimension Door(21k), and UMD it(DC 20). If you are lucky, you can get one that is less than full, and thus is cheaper.
Perhaps it occurs in this campaign because almost everything the PCs fight is Large and has reach -- well, and that the PC puts his Skill points in Knowledges and only has an average Acrobatics modifier. He goes first in initiative most encounters and gets his +4d6 damage for one round; then as everyone else (PC and NPC alike) loses their flat-footedness, the precision-damage PC cannot manuever to flank without provoking a couple Giants' attacks.
Well since this is clearly a rogue...
1. Potion of Invisibility (300gp, 1-time use as move action)--> This will allow the PC to not only maneuver into flanking position without provoking AoO's from movement (unless the enemy can see through invisibility), but will also allow the PC to get at least one sneak attack while invisible.
2. Combat Expertise + Improved Feint
Two-feat investment will allow the PC to feint as a Move action and then attack the now-flat-footed enemy for a single sneak.
3. Two-Weapon Fighting + Combat Expertise + Improved Two-Weapon Feint
Three-feat investment will allow the PC to sacrifice her first highest BAB attack on a full-attack action to feint the enemy.
1. Potions are a standard to drink.
2/3. The Feint route is good, but it requires not just the feat investment, but also investment in the bluff skill. Now its true this isn't hard to get high, and rogues have lots of skill points and it should be decent, but this whole thing is hinging on the rogue not having the skill points for acro, so saying he needs 2 more feats and a skill to boot isn't that great a solution.
If you're just looking for feats which do this, then CE/Gang Up is probably the best choice, as that lets him flank anything that he has 2 allies threatening it as well.
Also viable would be dodge/mobility, which won't help him avoid the attacks of opportunity, but will help him dodge them once they come up.
1. Potions are a standard to drink.
Whoops...definitely mis-typed that one.
Regardless, the rogue still needs to move into position after drinking the potion. If the PC is able to move to flanking position in that single move action, he can full attack next round for multiple sneak attacks.
CE/Gang-Up is a decent combination, but that relies on there being at least two allies who want to be in melee and are able to be in melee with the target you wish to attack. Consider a party of a rogue, fighter, cleric, and wizard. There's a fair chance that the cleric won't be in melee initially in lieu of casting spells.
There's always the possibility of creating a custom magic item:
[Item] of Vanishing
Activate on command word (standard action) to cast Vanish on yourself 5/day.
# of rounds = Caster Level of item (up to 5)
To calculate cost, take the Spell Level (1), multiply by the Caster Level (1 to 5), then multiply by 1800. If you need fewer charges per day, divide that by 5/(# of charges).
A Ring of Vanishing that lasts for 2 rounds and can be used 5 times per day would be:
1 * 2 * 1800 / (5/5) = 3600
1. Potions are a standard to drink.Whoops...definitely mis-typed that one.
Regardless, the rogue still needs to move into position after drinking the potion. If the PC is able to move to flanking position in that single move action, he can full attack next round for multiple sneak attacks.
CE/Gang-Up is a decent combination, but that relies on there being at least two allies who want to be in melee and are able to be in melee with the target you wish to attack. Consider a party of a rogue, fighter, cleric, and wizard. There's a fair chance that the cleric won't be in melee initially in lieu of casting spells.
So long as we are spending money, he could get a wand of summon monster to get more guys out there. Wand of Minor Monster gets him even more little dudes to help out.
Snap Shot lets his archer friend (if he has one) threaten from a distance, which qualifies.
It's not the best option for all groups, but it is definitely a choice.
And Aeryn, if you are going to pay for the full 5 charges/day, you might as well just make it unlimited charges, since that is the same cost. Or make it use activated (free action) by increasing your 1800 multiplier to a 2000.
At the same time, a ring of vanish probably costs more than the tables suggest. A Ring of Invisibility costs 2X3X2000=12K by the tables, but actually costs 20K, because at-will/always on invisibility is just too strong. Any similar item would need to have a similar price increase.
1. Potions are a standard to drink.Whoops...definitely mis-typed that one.
Regardless, the rogue still needs to move into position after drinking the potion. If the PC is able to move to flanking position in that single move action, he can full attack next round for multiple sneak attacks.
CE/Gang-Up is a decent combination, but that relies on there being at least two allies who want to be in melee and are able to be in melee with the target you wish to attack. Consider a party of a rogue, fighter, cleric, and wizard. There's a fair chance that the cleric won't be in melee initially in lieu of casting spells.
So long as we are spending money, he could get a wand of summon monster to get more guys out there. Wand of Minor Monster gets him even more little dudes to help out.
Snap Shot lets his archer friend (if he has one) threaten from a distance, which qualifies.
It's not the best option for all groups, but it is definitely a choice.
And Aeryn, if you are going to pay for the full 5 charges/day, you might as well just make it unlimited charges, since that is the same cost. Or make it use activated (free action) by increasing your 1800 multiplier to a 2000.
At the same time, a ring of vanish probably costs more than the tables suggest. A Ring of Invisibility costs 2X3X2000=12K by the tables, but actually costs 20K, because at-will/always on invisibility is just too strong. Any similar item would need to have a similar price increase.
You need to hit that with a 2X due to the fact the spell has a duration of minutes.
You need to hit that with a 2X due to the fact the spell has a duration of minutes.1. Potions are a standard to drink.Whoops...definitely mis-typed that one.
Regardless, the rogue still needs to move into position after drinking the potion. If the PC is able to move to flanking position in that single move action, he can full attack next round for multiple sneak attacks.
CE/Gang-Up is a decent combination, but that relies on there being at least two allies who want to be in melee and are able to be in melee with the target you wish to attack. Consider a party of a rogue, fighter, cleric, and wizard. There's a fair chance that the cleric won't be in melee initially in lieu of casting spells.
So long as we are spending money, he could get a wand of summon monster to get more guys out there. Wand of Minor Monster gets him even more little dudes to help out.
Snap Shot lets his archer friend (if he has one) threaten from a distance, which qualifies.
It's not the best option for all groups, but it is definitely a choice.
And Aeryn, if you are going to pay for the full 5 charges/day, you might as well just make it unlimited charges, since that is the same cost. Or make it use activated (free action) by increasing your 1800 multiplier to a 2000.
At the same time, a ring of vanish probably costs more than the tables suggest. A Ring of Invisibility costs 2X3X2000=12K by the tables, but actually costs 20K, because at-will/always on invisibility is just too strong. Any similar item would need to have a similar price increase.
You are absolutely right, and now I am just hideously confused, because this means that a ring of invisibility is actually LESS expensive than it should be by the table (20K vs 24K).
1. Potions are a standard to drink.
And it would be a move action to pull the potion out (unless he had quick draw).
I agree that for what you want to do, a wondrous item with Vanish like a level 1 or 2 caster, command word 3 times a day would work and be much cheaper.
That is, if your GM is allowing custom magic items- which at this point I'm assuming from the nature of the original question.
Summon monster could work, but remember that the spell's casting is 1 turn... summon minor monster wouldn't work because that summons tiny things and tiny creatures have a reach of 0, which would make them useless for flanking purposes no?
USE ACTIVATED doesn't make it a free action. It means that the item, when used does the effect, as opposed to having a command word.
So if I made a magic item, that on command used knock, use the 1800. The inherent restriction is I'd have to know the command word to actually use the item.
However if I made a magic key that used knock on whatever lock it was put in, that'd be use activated. Using the key would probably still be a standard action though. Use activated could also be like the lantern of revealing, which reveals invisible while it's lit. Activating a use item should almost certainly remain a standard action, unless the GM wants to open up the world to a whole load of broken.
Free action is just out of the question... you could make even a junk attack spell (level 1 x cl 1 x 2000 = 2k) have unlimited attacks.. Infinite magic missiles!
1. Potions are a standard to drink.And it would be a move action to pull the potion out (unless he had quick draw).
I agree that for what you want to do, a wondrous item with Vanish like a level 1 or 2 caster, command word 3 times a day would work and be much cheaper.
That is, if your GM is allowing custom magic items- which at this point I'm assuming from the nature of the original question.
Summon monster could work, but remember that the spell's casting is 1 turn... summon minor monster wouldn't work because that summons tiny things and tiny creatures have a reach of 0, which would make them useless for flanking purposes no?
USE ACTIVATED doesn't make it a free action. It means that the item, when used does the effect, as opposed to having a command word.
So if I made a magic item, that on command used knock, use the 1800. The inherent restriction is I'd have to know the command word to actually use the item.
However if I made a magic key that used knock on whatever lock it was put in, that'd be use activated. Using the key would probably still be a standard action though. Use activated could also be like the lantern of revealing, which reveals invisible while it's lit. Activating a use item should almost certainly remain a standard action, unless the GM wants to open up the world to a whole load of broken.
Free action is just out of the question... you could make even a junk attack spell (level 1 x cl 1 x 2000 = 2k) have unlimited attacks.. Infinite magic missiles!
However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. [...]
Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item's activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use, activation is not an action at all.
Thus your knock key would not actually take a standard action to get the knock effect, but it might be a standard action to turn the key in the lock. Similarly, a ring of vanish would not require an action to activate. Use of the item does not take time. You need simple wear it and mentally will the activation to happen. It does not require any action (even a free action) to activate. It simply goes.
A potion is a use activated item which requires a standard action to activate, because "the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs." A ring has no "use" besides wearing it. A ring of magic missiles could be fired as a non-action. Any reasonable DM would, of course, ban such an item for the same reason that the ring of true strike has been banned. For 2000 GP you could put true strike on every single one of your shots ever. That is clearly beyond the power scope of ANY item, much less a 2000 gp one.
None of that changes the fact, though, that most use activated wondrous items don't cost an action to activate.
That was precisely my point. If you're going to allow custom items, then 'use activated' items need to be designed in such a way that the active use of the item is in itself an action as long or longer than casting the normal spell. Like turning a key, praying on a mat, lighting a lamp, etc.
Otherwise, it becomes broken.
The magic missile ring was just my example of why, but the vanishing ring is just as broken. Vanish is normally a standard action to cast... changing it to a free action is better than throwing the metamagic swift feat on it.
Besides, if you had to will the ring to do it, that would so be 'on command.' If it was use activated, it would be putting on the ring (which I guess would be a standard action). We would have Frodo's ring.
If I'm a rogue with a ring that granted vanish as a free action, you should so splurge and make it unlimited use for 2/5s more. Vanish before every attack, and after! Even if you don't, pretty nuts for how cheap the item would be to vanish, attack, and immediately vanish again.