|
| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I remembered this archetype of the bard, and while last time I saw it I thought it was kind of meh, I've noticed that they trade versatile performance for what seems to be a familiar. Now, the million dollar question is:
Can you take Improved Familiar for the Sea Singer?
On one hand it's a familiar, and that should be all that's required. On the other hand, the wording of this particular one is weird ("gains abilities as a wizard's familiar"? So is it a familiar or not?) and it also specifies only a monkey or raven.
Of course, I'd like to be able to, because a bard is bound to have a great UMD skill, and two wand-users is better than one. This kind of thing saves the bard a feat in the form of Eldritch Heritage, and also gives him a cool little gust of wind power.
I don't see why not. It references the wizard's familiar. You won't get an official answer for this kind of question. Its far too hair-split-y.
It's a Familiar. It qualifies for Improved Familiar.
Improved Familiar doesn't require "Arcane Bond", it requires a Familiar.
Although with I.F. you can get Celestial/etc versions of every Animal Familiar, you can't get other base Animal Familiars themself,
i.e. Raven, Rat, etc, which grant whatever 'auxiliary' skill/init/etc bonus to the master themself.
We had a Sea Singer in our Skull n hackles campaign and this discussion came up. Ultimately it was ruled that this was one of the rare instances where the 'familiar' didn't qualify the caster to take the Improved Familiar feat. The reason was the wording of the ability:
At 2nd level, a sea singer acquires an exotic pet - a monkey or parrot (treat as raven) - that gains abilities as a wizard’s familiar, using the sea singer’s bard level as his wizard level.
Its clearly being called an 'exotic pet', not a familiar, one who gains abilities as a familiar. Gains abilities yes, but technically isn't one and therefor technically doesn't qualify for the feat Improved Familiar.
To be honest, our Bard would have rather just kept versatile performance but it made for good RP fodder.
BTW Harliquinn Whiteshadow, I posted that build you asked for in the Skull n Shackles forum - let me know if you have any questions or comments.
Uh... The Sea Singer's Class Ability is straight up CALLED "Familiar":
Familiar: At 2nd level, a sea singer acquires an exotic pet...
Uh... The Sea Singer's Class Ability is straight up CALLED "Familiar":Familiar: At 2nd level, a sea singer acquires an exotic pet...
Then why the wording 'gains abilities as a Familiar? Why would that distinction be necessary when its just a plain old familiar? Clearly it was intended not to be.
If it were intended to actually count as a Familiar, it would have simply said:
At 2nd level, a sea singer acquires a familiar - a monkey or parrot (treat as raven) - using the sea singer’s bard level as his wizard level.
There has to be a reason why they put in the extra verbage, don't you think?
The feature is named familiar. Why would they call it one if it isn't? The extra wording is to explain that you only get a monkey or parrot to pick from. If it wasn't meant to be an actual familiar, it could have been called Exotic Pet and not Familiar.
You're not even quoting it accurately. It doesn't say "as a Familiar". It says "as a Wizard's Familiar".
Which makes sense since it's followed up by translating Bard level to Wizard level.
Familiars are not unique creatures, they actually are their base creature type, and can in fact be simply 'exotic pets' before 'activated' via the Familiar ability whereby they are granted new powers and even creature types, same for Wizards as well... What defines a Familiar is their abilities granted by the Class Ability, not any inherent quality.
In fact there DOESN'T "have to be" a reason why they put in extra verbiage, there's huge numbers of cases where wording is superfluous or otherwise varying from what is strictly necessary to convey a rules function. You can use such wording as supporting evidence of a reading, but on it's own it doesn't mean much.
In this case, the ability is directly called out as "Familiar".
If you want to think that it is not a "Familiar" but only gains the qualities of "Familiar Abilities", then that means this 'exotic pet'-Familiar can never be replaced, does not have the restriction on also being an Animal Companion, does not grant the special Skill Bonus for Monkey/Parrot, and does not use the master's base stats as layed out in "Familiar Basics", since those are not part of the "Familiar Abilities" sub-section.
If you want to ask Paizo Rules Team or PFS Management whether your ruling is correct, feel free though. I choose to believe the name they gave it, "Familiar".
Unfortunately, I believe Story Archer is correct.
I fell victim to the same fallacy.
I spent days arguing that a blackblade could not be sundered because the special ability it had was called "Unbreakable".
So, in a nutshell, read the fine print.
Ginglebrix I read the ability AND the name of it. If I had read either one, I'd have said it was a familiar. Having BOTH make it even clearer to me that it is a familiar. As Quandary said, "ask Paizo Rules Team or PFS Management" if you wish but to me it's clear. Familiar ability + familiar text = real familiar.
|
We had a Sea Singer in our Skull n hackles campaign and this discussion came up. Ultimately it was ruled that this was one of the rare instances where the 'familiar' didn't qualify the caster to take the Improved Familiar feat. The reason was the wording of the ability:
At 2nd level, a sea singer acquires an exotic pet - a monkey or parrot (treat as raven) - that gains abilities as a wizard’s familiar, using the sea singer’s bard level as his wizard level.
Its clearly being called an 'exotic pet', not a familiar, one who gains abilities as a familiar. Gains abilities yes, but technically isn't one and therefor technically doesn't qualify for the feat Improved Familiar.
To be honest, our Bard would have rather just kept versatile performance but it made for good RP fodder.
BTW Harliquinn Whiteshadow, I posted that build you asked for in the Skull n Shackles forum - let me know if you have any questions or comments.
Honestly, I'd rather have kept Veraatile Performance as well. So far, my GM seems okay allowing me to eventually take improved familiar. I'd like to keep the "monkey" and maybe just use the stats for a similar shapes creature as if its the spirit inhabiting the monkey.
Thanks for posting the stats. I'll go take a look at them for ideas.