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Sean just updated the FAQs so they read more clearly:
If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?
No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature.
Note that there are advantages to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver. One, if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone. Two, you can apply the trip weapon's enhancement bonus, weapon-specific attack bonuses such as Weapon Focus, and so on to your trip combat maneuver roll.
For example, you'd add the enhancement bonus from a +5 whip to your trip combat maneuver roll because a whip is a trip weapon. You wouldn't add the enhancement bonus from a +5 longsword to your trip combat maneuver roll because a longsword is not a trip weapon. In effect, there's no difference between making an unarmed trip attempt and a trip attempt with a +5 longsword because the sword doesn't help you make the trip attempt.
So, now we have a 13th level polearm master ability that is worth what?
Sweeping Fend (Ex): At 13th level, a polearm master can use any spear or pole arm to make a bull rush or trip maneuver, though he takes a –4 penalty to his CMB when making such attempts. Weapons with the trip property do not incur this penalty on trip maneuvers. This ability replaces weapon training 3.
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** spoiler omitted **
Rules errata and FAQs are updated over time. Yes James Jacobs post came before the FAQ entry, but that entry does not make it invalid because of the last line in the FAQ "Because the sword doesn't help you make the trip attempt."The FAQ entry would have killed 2 birds with one stone if the weapon used in the example was a Long Spear +5 & reference was made to the reach or lack there of. Hopefully this will be updated in the...
They are saying that the sword does not"help" with its enchantment, or feats. you can still"use" a non-trip weapon to trip. First line"Do you need to have a trip weapon to trip? Answer-No."
And James Jacobs said that the statement "In effect, there's no difference between making an unarmed trip attempt and a trip attempt with a +5 longsword because the sword doesn't help you make the trip attempt." extents to the features of the weapon, not just its enhancement.
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And James Jacobs said that the statement "In effect, there's no difference between making an unarmed trip attempt and a trip attempt with a +5 longsword because the sword doesn't help you make the trip attempt." extents to the features of the weapon, not just its enhancement.
You can still use it though, and since a range weapon can only be used at range, it is the only option. You can not trip somone adjacent to you, but you can at range of the weapon. Now if they are considering the range to be to much of a benefit, are they then saying you can trip someone adjacent to you when holding a polearm? In which case that means I threaten adjacent squares which is more of a game breaker in my opinion, but i'll take it.
You can still use it though, and since a range weapon can only be used at range, it is the only option. You can not trip somone adjacent to you, but you can at range of the weapon. Now if they are considering the range to be to much of a benefit, are they then saying you can trip someone adjacent to you when holding a polearm? In which case that means I threaten adjacent squares which is more of a game breaker in my opinion, but i'll take it.
Polearm Masters, which are the subject of this thread, can attack adjacent squares with their polearm.
Pole Fighting (Ex)
At 2nd level, as an immediate action, a polearm master can shorten the grip on his spear or polearm with reach and use it against adjacent targets. This action results in a –4 penalty on attack rolls with that weapon until he spends another immediate action to return to the normal grip. The penalty is reduced by –1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.
This ability replaces Bravery.
So, now we have a 13th level polearm master ability that is worth what?
Sweeping Fend (Ex): At 13th level, a polearm master can use any spear or pole arm to make a bull rush or trip maneuver, though he takes a –4 penalty to his CMB when making such attempts. Weapons with the trip property do not incur this penalty on trip maneuvers. This ability replaces weapon training 3.
Agreed Happler. Now that we have *extreme* clarification on the Tripping at reach and/or with any weapon issue this Archetype ability needs to be re-evaluated in order to be useful.
My vote is for the following revision:
Sweeping Fend (Ex): At 13th Level, any Spear or Polearm a Polearm Master uses to make a Trip combat maneuver attempt is considered to have the Trip Property. In addition, a polearm master can use any spear or pole arm to make a Bull Rush maneuver, though he takes a –4 penalty to his CMB when making such attempts. This ability replaces weapon training 3.
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You can still use it though, and since a range weapon can only be used at range, it is the only option. You can not trip somone adjacent to you, but you can at range of the weapon. Now if they are considering the range to be to much of a benefit, are they then saying you can trip someone adjacent to you when holding a polearm? In which case that means I threaten adjacent squares which is more of a game breaker in my opinion, but i'll take it.Polearm Masters, which are the subject of this thread, can attack adjacent squares with their polearm.
Pole Fighting (Ex)
At 2nd level, as an immediate action, a polearm master can shorten the grip on his spear or polearm with reach and use it against adjacent targets. This action results in a –4 penalty on attack rolls with that weapon until he spends another immediate action to return to the normal grip. The penalty is reduced by –1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.
This ability replaces Bravery.
True, but we are argueing a basic rule about tripping that would have to apply across the board.
Unarmed trip = longsword (or insert any weapon here) tripUnarmed trip = ranged weapon trip
Therefore you cannot trip at range. You can only trip as far as your unarmed reach goes or as long as your trip quality weapon can reach.
The weapon does not help you make the trip unless it has the trip property, i.e. none of the enhancements, abilities or effects of the weapon applies on trip attempts.
No. The corrected FAQ by SKR demonstrates that you can trip with any weapon.
You can read more about it in this thread
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Please read your links before throwing them up in the thread.Using any non-trip weapon is the same as tripping without a weapon, as the updated FAQ clearly states.
Oh jeez, not this again. Read the thread, and you'll see that SKR says that you can trip with a spear even though it is not a trip weapon. I'm not talking out of my back pocket here, I'm quoting one of the designers of the game.
From the FAQ:
If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature...
You can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike. It's not tripping as an unarmed strike, it's tripping with the longsword.
From the Thread:
..."You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks" does not mean "You can't use a non-trip weapon to make trip attacks." There's nothing in the Trip combat maneuver description that says you have to use a weapon with the trip special ability......Why is tripping with a longspear a broken combo? If you fail by 10, you're tripped, and on his turn your enemy can step up and full attack your unarmed prone dirt-biting regretful self...
You can trip with any weapon, including a spear. Tripping with a reach weapon can be done at reach, otherwise SKR wouldn't have said that the enemy could step up after a failed trip attempt.
SKR's latest blog post answers this subject.
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom
Update: On page 106 of the Advanced Player’s Guide, Polearm Master, Sweeping Fend ability, delete the second sentence. Replace the first sentence with “At 13th level, a polearm master can use any spear or polearm to make bull rush maneuvers, though he takes a –4 penalty on combat maneuver checks when making such attempts. When using a spear or polearm to make a trip maneuver, he treats these weapons as if they had the trip weapon feature.”
Although, if you can trip with a spear - I'm not sure why you couldn't bull rush with a spear.
What I absolutely love about the new ruling is this:
If you’re using a weapon with the trip special feature, and you’re attempting a drag or reposition combat maneuver (Advanced Player’s Guide 321–322), you may apply the weapon’s bonuses to the roll because trip weapons are also suitable for dragging and repositioning.
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SKR's latest blog post answers this subject.
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom
Update: On page 106 of the Advanced Player’s Guide, Polearm Master, Sweeping Fend ability, delete the second sentence. Replace the first sentence with “At 13th level, a polearm master can use any spear or polearm to make bull rush maneuvers, though he takes a –4 penalty on combat maneuver checks when making such attempts. When using a spear or polearm to make a trip maneuver, he treats these weapons as if they had the trip weapon feature.”
Although, if you can trip with a spear - I'm not sure why you couldn't bull rush with a spear.
What I absolutely love about the new ruling is this:
If you’re using a weapon with the trip special feature, and you’re attempting a drag or reposition combat maneuver (Advanced Player’s Guide 321–322), you may apply the weapon’s bonuses to the roll because trip weapons are also suitable for dragging and repositioning.
That new rule does make a whip a little more interesting (for drag and reposition).
The odd part is that it goes against his FAQ post on it where he states:
FAQ[/url]]
If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature.
Note that there are advantages to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver. One, if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone. Two, you can apply the trip weapon's enhancement bonus, weapon-specific attack bonuses such as Weapon Focus, and so on to your trip combat maneuver roll.
For example, you'd add the enhancement bonus from a +5 whip to your trip combat maneuver roll because a whip is a trip weapon. You wouldn't add the enhancement bonus from a +5 longsword to your trip combat maneuver roll because a longsword is not a trip weapon. In effect, there's no difference between making an unarmed trip attempt and a trip attempt with a +5 longsword because the sword doesn't help you make the trip attempt.—Sean K Reynolds, 03/15/11
So, I hope that he either re-writes either the FAQ or the blog post for it to be official. Two answers to the same question can be confusing.
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not really any need to update the FAQ after the blog post. they updated the sweep wording.
a. you can use polearms to trip already. you do not get to add the bonus unless it has the trip property. so tripping with a longspear or a longsword is the same, just a flat CMB check, and if you fail, you bungle the polearm and trip yourself possibly.
b. polearm masters can trip with a longspear, drop it if they fail, and get to add the weapon bonus b/c they treat it as having the trip property.
its pretty much cleared up now.
not really any need to update the FAQ after the blog post.
SKR Blog says: "Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll."
Meaning if you trip with a +5 longsword, you get the +5 enhancement bonus to the trip roll, as well as weapon training, weapon focus, etc.
This directly contradicts the existing FAQ which says: "You wouldn't add the enhancement bonus from a +5 longsword to your trip combat maneuver roll because a longsword is not a trip weapon."
SKR said he would be updating the FAQ shortly, he's just distracted/busy.