I have decided to make a necromancer in an upcoming Legacy of Fire game, seeing as I've never explored that spectrum of magic; too many people have an issue with it, combined with the "animating the dead is automatically evil" ruling. However, the other players and DM are cool with it. However, we are a good aligned party, so the catch is I need to keep my undead non-evil.
The game starts at fifth level using a 25 point buy build. I will be dipping one level into oracle for the Juju mystery, thus allowing my undead to be neutral or even good aligned. Now the question is in what direction should I go? There are a plethora of options these days and I'm having a hard time narrowing it down. So far, I'm considering:
1. Oracle 1/Cleric 4- a classic, and probably the most effective method of necromancy. However, I'm not a fan of clerical spells, so I'm a bit iffy.
2. Oracle 1/Witch 4- Using the Plague patron, I'll be able to animate undead minions, and I'll have plenty of hexes to fall back on.
3. Oracle 1/Wizard 4- Probably the least effective manner of undead creation, it has the advantage of being a wizard and thus casting arcane magic.
I'm sure there are other methods out there, but these three are the ones I'm seeing as most effective at this point. I'd really appreciate an advice you can give on which route I should take, or if there is an alternative that can work. In addition, I could use some tips on undead management/optimization. Thanks all! :)
Well cleric might be fun, you could take undead companion. But what god would you take. (I would go Nethys) Why not just go all out Oracle?
YOur spells will suffer from multi classing, I would just go either Pure Oracle or pure cleric. If the GM is allowing a little binding of the rules why not replace the necromancer level 1 power for either undead companion or the juju mystery?
Edit: scratch the undead Lord, pretty sure that will not work on Golarion as you must have the Death domain and I can only think of one god who has it.
Well cleric might be fun, you could take undead companion. But what god would you take. (I would go Nethys) Why not just go all out Oracle?
YOur spells will suffer from multi classing, I would just go either Pure Oracle or pure cleric. If you go cleric take the undead companion archetype.
I don't want to take pure oracle mainly due to the fact that I don't really like most of the Juju oracle revelations; only a few of them spark my interest, but not enough for me to be stuck in that class. Plus I'm not fond of spontaneous casters and their lack of spells known.
I can't go all cleric because Juju oracle is the only method of getting non-evil undead; the DM is unwilling to house-rule non-evil undead.
Sounds like a dilemma. I say screw it and get the evil undead. Cleric 5 will serve you better then cleric 4/oracl 1 any day. Work the evil business out in roleplay because regardless of whether or not your undead are evil or not the fact they're undead is enough to get you run out of towns.
Well you have an issue then. Undead lord is out unless you want to play a N cleric of an evil god.
What about a gravewalker witch with 1 level of oracle ( Go hunted curse to fit theme)
Sounds like a dilemma. I say screw it and get the evil undead. Cleric 5 will serve you better then cleric 4/oracl 1 any day. Work the evil business out in roleplay because regardless of whether or not your undead are evil or not the fact they're undead is enough to get you run out of towns.
Indeed, it does not matter what you say the undead are..they are undead. So outside of Geb you will have some issues.
Sounds like a dilemma. I say screw it and get the evil undead. Cleric 5 will serve you better then cleric 4/oracl 1 any day. Work the evil business out in roleplay because regardless of whether or not your undead are evil or not the fact they're undead is enough to get you run out of towns.
Two things. First, we have a paladin in the party, so evil won't slide. Second, I actually *want* to be good; playing a white necromancer who can actually use undead appeals.
Plus, Katapesh isn't as bad as other areas tend to be; there aren't any hard laws against undeath that I'm aware of.
Its not Laws you must worry over. Undead = evil to most eveyone. No matter if you say he dis not. And a paladin in a party with undead is not good, even "good" undead. What god if any does he serve?
WEll if ya must take the oracle and wont level more then 1 level, you might want to Magical Knack, which will help over come the dip. If you do not like cleric I would go witch or wizard. Witch might work in better, I would not go the pardon you selected for theme and group really.
Go with Occult which still allows you animate dead. I also think it ties in with the JuJu them better.
In this case you would still be a 5th level caster as a witch, with the level 1 oracle spells and mystery.
To me, it sounds like the biggest hindrance is, in fact, the presence of a Paladin in your party.
If dipping into Juju Oracle is the only path you can take, I suggest you go Oracle/Sorcerer with the Magical Knack (Oracle) trait, and eventually go Mystic Theurge. It can easily be explained in-character, without breaking your theme, as "I wish for dominion over death in all aspects."
My suggestion, at least.
To me, it sounds like the biggest hindrance is, in fact, the presence of a Paladin in your party.
If dipping into Juju Oracle is the only path you can take, I suggest you go Oracle/Sorcerer with the Magical Knack (Oracle) trait, and eventually go Mystic Theurge. It can easily be explained in-character, without breaking your theme, as "I wish for dominion over death in all aspects."
My suggestion, at least.
If I did that, it wouldn't be until 10th level before I could cast third level spells; I'm willing to take a few hits for the sake of making a concept work, but there are limits.
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Hmmm ...
Sounds like what you need might be an actual white necromancer class. You know, a class with full access to spells (heck, maybe even a custom spell list containing both arcane and divine spells from the Core book, APG, UM etc) as well as a host of cool new white necromancer class abilities.
Maybe even a couple new spells ...
Speaking of a cool new white necromancer class, such a thing would be highly likely to be in the upcoming Fall / Halloween issue of Kobold Quarterly which comes out pretty soon ...
I'm just saying ;)
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Starting at 5th level cuts down your options a bit if you want to start the game with the power to animate the dead, and take the level of oracle. The lesser animate dead spell (UM page 205) is a level 3 sorcerer/wizard spell - so an oracle 1 / necromancer 4 is still out of luck. It's only a level 2 cleric spell though, so you could go oracle 4 / whatever you want 1, or oracle 1 / cleric 3 / whatever you want 1.
Personally I'd go with the oracle 4 / necromancer (undead school) 1 option and build towards Mystic Theurge. The wand-use alone from having both class spell lists in great. You'd be level 9 (oracle 4 / wizard 3 / mystic theurge 2) before you hit level 3 spells (both arcane and divine), sure, but if the whole animating dead bit is the character's thing, then that shouldn't be such an issue.
I have decided to make a necromancer in an upcoming Legacy of Fire game, seeing as I've never explored that spectrum of magic; too many people have an issue with it, combined with the "animating the dead is automatically evil" ruling. However, the other players and DM are cool with it. However, we are a good aligned party, so the catch is I need to keep my undead non-evil.
You should talk to your DM and ask him if he'll allow you to make your undead N alignment instead of E. Perhaps he would let you take the juju thing as a feat so that you don't have to multiclass? After all, it's silly that only oracles with that particular mystery can be "good" necromancers.
I'm sure there are other methods out there, but these three are the ones I'm seeing as most effective at this point. I'd really appreciate an advice you can give on which route I should take, or if there is an alternative that can work. In addition, I could use some tips on undead management/optimization. Thanks all! :)
As somone who has played a Necromancer before, the best advice I can give you is to limit yourself to one or two combat undead minions. Any more than that will not only make your turns take longer than everyone else's, it will quickly turn the party into a one-man show, and the other players will resent you for that. Nothing is more obnoxious than a player that fills the board with undead or summoned monsters, even if it is legal by the rules. No matter what the rules say your HD limit on animate dead and rebuke undead are, resist the tempation to abuse it.
One thing you should consider doing is animating a mount for each of your fellow party members. After all, if you only have one or two combat pets, you'll still have some HD leftover. Make your buddies a mount that will never tire and never needs to be fed. Later on, make them a nightmare skeleton (which retains its 90 ft. fly speed). Instead of resenting your animate dead spell, they'll love you for it.
So, change of plans.
Several new players were added, bringing the total to 8. The DM, quite reasonably, decided that having extra undead minions cluttering the board *and* dealing with 8 players would be a bit much, so he nixed the necromancer character.
On another note, for reasons he hasn't explained just yet, the starting level has increased to 7th, and we now have a 30 point buy! O_O
Now that I have no necromancer, I'm looking for any neat ideas as to what to play. Any thoughts?
So, change of plans.
Several new players were added, bringing the total to 8. The DM, quite reasonably, decided that having extra undead minions cluttering the board *and* dealing with 8 players would be a bit much, so he nixed the necromancer character.
On another note, for reasons he hasn't explained just yet, the starting level has increased to 7th, and we now have a 30 point buy! O_O
Now that I have no necromancer, I'm looking for any neat ideas as to what to play. Any thoughts?
Um, holy crap in a handbasket?
I'd find a new game myself...
But I guess Bard? Hard to go wrong with bard with that many potential buff targets.
Yeah upped to 7, a higher point buy and 8 total players? I would have left ya guys at 4 :)
Yeah Bard would rock in a group that large. We have a Bard belly dancer in my pbp.
Man with so many Play what you want and don't worry with what works for the group. What do you want to play?
So, change of plans.
Several new players were added, bringing the total to 8. The DM, quite reasonably, decided that having extra undead minions cluttering the board *and* dealing with 8 players would be a bit much, so he nixed the necromancer character.
On another note, for reasons he hasn't explained just yet, the starting level has increased to 7th, and we now have a 30 point buy! O_O
Now that I have no necromancer, I'm looking for any neat ideas as to what to play. Any thoughts?
Um, holy crap in a handbasket?
I'd find a new game myself...
But I guess Bard? Hard to go wrong with bard with that many potential buff targets.
Nah, it actually works out pretty well. Most of the new people are old friends who have recently moved to town. Our DM knows how to handle 8 players, having done it before.
Yeah upped to 7, a higher point buy and 8 total players? I would have left ya guys at 4 :)
Yeah Bard would rock in a group that large. We have a Bard belly dancer in my pbp.
Man with so many Play what you want and don't worry with what works for the group. What do you want to play?
Lol, 8 players actually isn't that bad, under the right DM.
From what I understand, he decided to start us a a later point in the AP. He's going to be upping the challenge by adding more bad guys and boosting their power, so he gave us a higher point buy.
I was talking the level not the number of players. With 7 or 8 and a 20+ point buy you can easily handle things a few levels above what you normally can.
I am guessing he is starting at book 3 in place of book 2. So what do you really want to play? Not just class but concept? I tend to do background, concept then pick the class that best suits what I want to play.
With that many, pool to buy a wand if no one plays a healer. with 8 someone will have UMD
So what do you really want to play? Not just class but concept? I tend to do background, concept then pick the class that best suits what I want to play.
Thinking about it, I'd like to play something that fits the setting/theme of the AP; I'm thinking Arabian Nights, Genies, things like that.
If you still want to play a necromancer, you could just play one that doesn't use animate dead. They're still great for offense, debuffing enemies, etc.
As for an "arabian nights" type character, you might want to take a look at the genie bloodlines in UM.
Sayer_Of_Nay, are you familiar with the Malconvoker PrC from 3.5's Complete Scoundrel?
Might be worth a shot for how to convince your GM to let you do evil things.
Not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet, but you could go with the reanimator alchemist archetype?
At 7th level you can animate corpses (zombies) but it might not be so many that the GM objects.
Say, did I mention that a white necromancer class is highly likely to be in the upcoming Fall / Halloween issue of Kobold Quarterly which comes out soon ...? Word on the street is that it is a REALLY cool new class!! ;)
How soon? Because our game starts tomorrow. Otherwise, I'd hold out for it.
What did you decide on? Or are you still thinking?
What did you decide on? Or are you still thinking?
Still thinking. Which sucks since the game starts tomorrow and I still have no idea what I want to play.
Have you considered the Ancestor mystery?
They're all about using the spirits and ancestors to help them out. It's more melee oriented, but I love the idea of it. Use Spiritual Weapon / Ally a lot.
What did you decide upon?