Trying to make a shield+sword paladin, and am somewhat unsure about how to prioritise my ability scores.
20 point buy, racial +2 wis, +2 cha
So far I came up with:
16 str
13 dex
12 con
10 int
12 wis
16 cha
Here a few thoughts that went into those stats:
I thought about taking 14 con, but with Lay on Hands I'm having enough effective HP I think, that 1 more/level won't make a difference.
10 int - won't be a skill monkey anyway, so 10 is probably enough, can always take the extra SP from favored class.
13 dex - well, eventually I want Shield Slam and Shield Master, which requires TWF unfortunately. So I thought about getting a +2 Dex item by that time to qualify for the feat. Yeah not perfect, I know.
The real issue where I'm not so sure is Cha and Str really.
16 cha - due to racial it's just 14, so not very expensive anyway. Reducing it to 14 just gives me 3 more Points to spend. Could get 17 Str for that though, not sure I should. Cha adds to my saves, my AC and attack when Smiting and one additional Lay on Hands (which is another 1/2 smite due to my Oath).
17 str vs 16 doesn't give me anything now, but would mean 18 at level 4 instead of 8 - if str should even be a priority, and probably putting my level points in Cha is better?
Could get 14 Con as well for reducing Cha.
Str 14, Cha 18 would be completely silly I assume?
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Trying to make a shield+sword paladin, and am somewhat unsure about how to prioritise my ability scores.
20 point buy, racial +2 wis, +2 cha
What race gives you that?
What level are you playing toward?16 str
13 dex
12 con
10 int
12 wis
16 chaHere a few thoughts that went into those stats:
I thought about taking 14 con, but with Lay on Hands I'm having enough effective HP I think, that 1 more/level won't make a difference.
10 int - won't be a skill monkey anyway, so 10 is probably enough, can always take the extra SP from favored class.
13 dex - well, eventually I want Shield Slam and Shield Master, which requires TWF unfortunately. So I thought about getting a +2 Dex item by that time to qualify for the feat. Yeah not perfect, I know.
If you need a stat for a feat chain, don't nerf it. I.e., a single point of dexterity damage would "shut off" all the dependent feats until you received a Lesser Restoration.
What race gives you that?
What level are you playing toward?
Aasimar race. We're starting at 1, playing Kingmaker, so up till 16ish I guess.
If you need a stat for a feat chain, don't nerf it. I.e., a single point of dexterity damage would "shut off" all the dependent feats until you received a Lesser Restoration.
I'm pretty sure ability damage doesn't work that way. It gives you penalties on skills and other related stats, but doesn't actually reduce the score. Ability Drain would however, much rarer though.
Also thats the same if I take 15 dex really, because in that case I'd most likely not wear the item then.
I have been playing a paladin lately, at while really handy, you can't count on your lay on hands ability to help keep you up in the middle of a fight as much as you might think. Especially at the lower levels, so more con and hit points are still really valuable.
This is what I would place for stats..
20 point buy
Aasimar race:
STR: 16 +3
DEX: 12 +1
CON: 14 +2
INT: 10
WIS: 10 (Original was 8, +2 from Aasimar)
CHA: 16 +3 (Original was 14, +2 from Aasimar)
No need for high dex since heavy armor doesn't give you much to add to your AC. You can always for the first stat point at level 4 into dex, buy an item that adds +2 dex if you want so that will give you 15 dex and you qualify for 2 weapon fighting.
High con for the extra health (plus favored class hit point gives you +3 hp/lvl)
High Str for damage and carrying weight as heavy armor is well.. heavy! lol
If you can afford to have mithral full plate made, I definately consider that a must for any plate wearing class, cuts the weight by 50%, adds up to 2 dex for AC (then you can increase your dex with items) and removes 3 on armor check penalties.
I personally prefer a 2 handed paladin, specifically using the Lucerne Hammer, 1d12 can switch between blunt or pierce as a free action and it has brace and reach abilities (10' reach means you are only within melee range half the time and you threaten a 10' around you not just 5'). Although it also means you'll have a slightly lower AC because of no shield, but all my paladins haven't had any major problems because they had no shield.
Also, the archetype Hospitaler is nice as you have your channel energy and lay on hands separate which gives you more healing power if needed.
Just my 2 coppers! :)
I believe most items that give a bonus to abilities are considered permanent after 24 hours and can be used to qualify for feats after those 24 hours. If you lose the item (and thus the ability score), you lose access to the feat (but not the feat itself) and can use it again once your requisite score is high enough.
13 dex - well, eventually I want Shield Slam and Shield Master, which requires TWF unfortunately. So I thought about getting a +2 Dex item by that time to qualify for the feat. Yeah not perfect, I know.
I had a similar build. My advice is to plan to get Mithral Full Plate by level 6-7. Take two levels of Ranger at some point, getting TWF for free, without having to meet the prerequisites. Once you have it, you meet the prereqs for all the other feats you would want, and you can save your stat bonuses for other more important abilities.
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Do the rules actually allow you to qualify for a feat based on an item in your possesion? It seems to me if you lost said item, you would lose access to the feat which seems wierd. I would house rule that you need to have the abiility score unmodified to qualify for a feat.
You could in 3.5, and it's a common expectation among many players -- and one which has not, as of yet, been explicitly countermanded by Paizo.
(A typical example would be "weak" barbarian characters who Power Attack only while raging.)
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20 point buy, racial +2 wis, +2 cha
So far I came up with:
16 str
13 dex
12 con
10 int
12 wis
16 cha
Str 16, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 16
[10 + 3 + 2 + 0 + 0 + 5 = 20, +2 Wis, +2 Cha racial]I'd consider swapping the Wis 12 to Int 12, as you might have more use for skills (like Diplomacy) in Kingmaker. That's a personal choice, 'though. I almost always feel skill-starved.
Normally, I'd want to bump Str to 18 at 4th level, which would mean lowering some stats to get Str 17 at 1st level, but Kingmaker doesn't throw encounter after encounter at you like a standard dungeon-crawl, and you might find that having a big smite once a day is a viable option.
Going in the other direction, and bumping Cha to 18 by 4th level, might work out better in the long, long-term. There's a heck of a lot more kingdom roles in the Kingmaker Players Guide that require a high Charisma than those that require high Strength, and, of the Strength roles, your Paladin probably isn't going to be the 'Royal Assassin'...
I haven't played Kingmaker (or even looked at the books, because it's on a to-do list for my group that I will most likely be a player in), but my current character is a sword and board paladin. A few things...
You were recommended two-handers. I would base that off of your group composition. As a paladin, you're going to only be second in damage output only to those designed specifically to do nothing but damage, second in tanking ability to those running around with tower shields and fullplate, and second to healing only to full divine casters. If your group has enough of damage dealers, grab a shield. If your group has a good tank, grab a two-hander. If you have too much melee, a bow works wonders.
You already expressed interest in shield and sword. I would recommend light shields or bucklers, given you can use Lay on Hands as a swift action but does require a free hand - free action to swap hands on weapons, so you can move your sword to shield hand, LoH, then swap back, for two free actions and a swift.
You should discuss action trading with your GM - my group allows trading down actions (standard -> move -> swift). If this is allowed, you can LoH yourself three times in a round if you're in a pinch. Normally, though, if your CHA is high enough, just keeping yourself healthy during a fight to avoid a nasty hit or maybe a crit will do wonders. Think of it like HoTs (RIP resto druids) if you've played WoW - the damage will come, just keep the healing flowing at a steady rate.
For your stats, you have a decent set up already. I would do one of two things, based on another bit of advice you received. First off, I would drop wisdom a point, since you're getting a bonus to it. I would use 4th level to get it to 12. Based on the following, this extra points allow a high stat increase or modifier increase.
If you go two levels into Ranger for TWF, you can drop the Dex a bit, since you don't need it for the feat. However, you will definitely notice the lack of class features from paladin. The two classes don't mesh well enough to feel like you're not missing out on anything. Your 2 points from Dex and Wis could go into Int for more skill points (which apparently is important in Kingmaker), or set you up for a modifier increase in Cha at 8th level (or 4th, if you wanted to get it before Wis).
[Str 16, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 12/10, Wis 11, Cha 16/17]
[10 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 2/0 + (-1) + 5/7 = 20, +2 Wis/Cha racial]
You could also take a level or two of fighter - get one or two feats, one of which could be your TWF, but this will require you to get a 15 Dex by yourself - due to this, it might be more advantageous to wear lighter armor until you get access to mithral. Compare it for yourself. This can be done by your Str to 14 (which will only be a +1 to hit/+1 to damage), allowing you another point to drop somewhere, giving you another 2 points. I'd go with what I stated above.
[Str 14, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 12/10, Wis 11, Cha 16/17]
[5 + 7 + 2 + 2/0 + (-1) + 5/7 = 20, +2 Wis/Cha racial]
Now, if you're going to go straight paladin, I would go with the stats listed for the latter of the two above and spend your feats on a direct line to what you want. I recommend this above the rest, simply because you have a lot of class features that are based on paladin levels, and you -will- miss those if you multiclass.
I'll say this about itemizing: boost that Cha as much as you can. It does so much for you. In a game based around politics like Kingmaker is, it will also do a lot for you RP wise.
Anyway, this is much longer than I intended. Paladins are great. Enjoy him.
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I'm assuming you are against dump stats? 7 int buys you a 14 Wis at the cost of 1 skill point, which is a great tradeoff.
I'd personally:
Str: 16 (10)
Int: 7 (-4)
Wis: 14 (2)
Dex: 12 (2)
Con: 14 (5)
Chr: 16 (5)
If I were looking at maximizing. If I were truly looking to maximize I would play the above as a human and go Str 18 Chr 14... 18 Str is far more beneficial, and Wis bump only does a little for you. Plus feat-starved Pallies love being human, and you still get 2 skill points / lvl despite the 7 int.
Trying to make a shield+sword paladin, and am somewhat unsure about how to prioritise my ability scores.
20 point buy, racial +2 wis, +2 cha
So far I came up with:
16 str
13 dex
12 con
10 int
12 wis
16 chaHere a few thoughts that went into those stats:
I thought about taking 14 con, but with Lay on Hands I'm having enough effective HP I think, that 1 more/level won't make a difference.
10 int - won't be a skill monkey anyway, so 10 is probably enough, can always take the extra SP from favored class.
13 dex - well, eventually I want Shield Slam and Shield Master, which requires TWF unfortunately. So I thought about getting a +2 Dex item by that time to qualify for the feat. Yeah not perfect, I know.The real issue where I'm not so sure is Cha and Str really.
16 cha - due to racial it's just 14, so not very expensive anyway. Reducing it to 14 just gives me 3 more Points to spend. Could get 17 Str for that though, not sure I should. Cha adds to my saves, my AC and attack when Smiting and one additional Lay on Hands (which is another 1/2 smite due to my Oath).17 str vs 16 doesn't give me anything now, but would mean 18 at level 4 instead of 8 - if str should even be a priority, and probably putting my level points in Cha is better?
Could get 14 Con as well for reducing Cha.
Str 14, Cha 18 would be completely silly I assume?
If you want a sword & shield-bash paladin, you really need to start from 1st level because of the required feats. IMO, you should go with:
Aasimar Paladin, 20-Point Buy
14 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis, 16 Cha
1st- Two-Weapon Fighting
3rd- Improved Shield Bash
4th- +1 Dex
5th- Double Slice
7th- Shield Slam
8th- +1 Cha
9th- Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
11th- Two-Weapon Rend
12th- +1 Cha
13th- Channeled Revival
15th- Extra Lay on Hands
This is a decent front-line combatant and secondary healer. Wis is no longer needed for a paladin; the 14 Str (or 12 Con) is more important. Note that you can still attack with a weapon and shield without Improved Shield Bash, you just lose the AC bonus from the shield if you do; at 1st/2nd levels, the +1 AC from a light shield is not a huge difference when compared to the extra attack (especially when using Smite Evil). Because Smite Evil gives you so many bonuses based on Cha, you don't need to focus quite as much on Str to be effective. With your favored class bonus in Skill Ranks, you can have 3 ranks/level.
If you don't care about Two-Weapon Rend, then Power Attack at 5th, Improved Critical (Scimitar) at 11th, Shield Master at 13th, Bashing Finish at 15th is another possible route. If you want to make a lot of bull rushes, then Power Attack at 5th, Improved Bull Rush at 11th, Improved Critical (Scimitar) at 13th, and Bull Rush Strike at 15th can work. If you just want a lot of attacks, then go with Power Attack at 5th, Cleave at 7th, Cleaving Finish at 11th, Great Cleave at 13th, and Improved Cleaving Finish at 15th. There are several other interesting options for paladins, as well.
Get the best belt of giant strength and headband of alluring charisma you can and invest in a +x bashing light shield ASAP. If you want to focus on damage, then a rapier or scimitar are better choices than a longsword (especially with Improved Critical and bless weapon when smiting).
If you don't mind having fewer uses of smite evil the I highly recomend the Hospitaler, it only has 1/2 the smites/day but they are just as effective, and they get full channeling that does not take LoH uses each day, this is a great way to increase the survivability of a group by quite a large margin, even making you viable as the party's primary healer. As I tend to be conservative in what I smite and the numbers of encounters/day in Kingmaker this is a minor penalty for a huge bonus! (warning I haven't actually played through it, but a bunch of my friends are playing though it currently in my living room each weekend so I get at least the general gist of it).
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I am very partial to DEX-focused finesse paladins who TWF and/or employ archery.
More attacks/round while Smiting = goooood.
...Hospitaliers...
I'm not a fan of any of the paladin archetypes, as paladins should be approached as true generalists who are good at everything they do, and shouldn't sacrifice anything to be slightly better at some other aspect. Clerics: if your party really, really really needs one right now, it's usually for a 5th- or 6th-level unwind-p0wnage spell rather than gob-of-d6s healing (so, don't become too enamored of Hospitaler, which was way stronger in 3.0, then nerfed in 3.5, and is now myeh in Pathfinder).
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I think wisdom is a dump stat for paladins. Int affects your skills in every way possible, wis affects..... a handful of skills and will saves, which your saves are going to be amazing at 2nd level anyway, so it's not like it's an actual problem.
Going with two-weapon style, you might as well have a high dex instead of strength, you won't be getting plate for awhile anyway, and a breastplate is 5lbs. heavier than a chain shirt.