Wild West weapon proficiencies?

[Ackattack]

So guys, with the new Ultimate Combat book out, there are some nifty new firearms to use. The Advanced Firearms take the game to the late 1800s, perfect for a Wild West setting. But only the Gunslinger comes with the ability to wield these weapons. So how would you guys homebrew the other classes to being able to use guns?

Can sorcerers and wizards use pistols or rifles? What about druids or monks? Fighter's should easily be able to wield a variety of guns, but what about bards? What do you think? After all, by that point guns are pretty widespread.

[Atarlost]

Ackattack wrote:

So guys, with the new Ultimate Combat book out, there are some nifty new firearms to use. The Advanced Firearms take the game to the late 1800s, perfect for a Wild West setting. But only the Gunslinger comes with the ability to wield these weapons. So how would you guys homebrew the other classes to being able to use guns?

Can sorcerers and wizards use pistols or rifles? What about druids or monks? Fighter's should easily be able to wield a variety of guns, but what about bards? What do you think? After all, by that point guns are pretty widespread.

Anyone can use a gun. The whole point of firearms is that you can train functional arquebusiers in hardly any time at all compared to most other medieval weapons, and most of the training is to march in straight lines and not run away from the enemy.

Muskets take a little more training because they're worth aiming, but they're still no more difficult to use than crossbows. Rifles are harder to use only in that the bullets have to be tight fits to take advantage of the rifling so they take more time with the ramrod. They're not actually more complicated.

Monks and druids aren't proficient in all simple weapons so they should be out of luck, but all other classes would be able to pick up a firearm and use it with a bit of instruction. They can use crossbows after all and firearms have the same "user interface".

[Sean FitzSimon]

Atarlost wrote:

Monks and druids aren't proficient in all simple weapons so they should be out of luck, but all other classes would be able to pick up a firearm and use it with a bit of instruction. They can use crossbows after all and firearms have the same "user interface".

Wait, is your reasoning that Monks/Druids can't use firearms because they don't have simple weapon proficiency or because they don't have crossbow proficiency? Keep in mind that Wizards also don't have simple weapon proficiency.

[Tark of the Shoanti]

Why home brew it? Isn't that what the feat would be for? So that anyone who took the time and trained properly would be able to use said weapon? I mean, if you want to split hairs, Native American medicine men and druids were in many ways, the same kind of person. And historically, there's plenty of evidence of medicine men using rifles and guns, this making it a moot point?

[Dorje Sylas]

Page 135 under "Firearms in Your Campaign", there are 5 suggested methods for dealing with guns.

No Guns
Very Rare
Emerging
Commonplace
Guns Everywhere

In the 1800s "Guns Everywhere" would likely be what you'd use. In the case of classes that don't have the Simple Weapon proficiency, not everyone immediately knows how to use a gun correctly. It's not a "built in" human trait even in the real world. This varies regionally as your background "this is a place where Traits could be useful". I did not grow up around guns, no have I ever fried one. I could likely pick on up and generally "point & shoot", but that key aspect of dealing with recoil, actually putting shot into a target past say... oh 5 feet... could be a tricky (-4 Atk), and then theirs reloading/safetying the weapon. I could likely learn quick, which is the point of a Simple Weapon proficiency. Then again I'd classify myself as an "Expert" NPC classed person. Wizards, Monks, and Druids dedicate themselves basically from the word go to their "art" be it magic, physical/mental training, or nature.

If you grew up around guns and used them as a kid (see character Traits) then you'd start off having proficiency in Firearms (but not other kinds of simple weapons). You may even have gotten one as a gift (see Heirloom Weapon trait).

[Atarlost]

Sean FitzSimon wrote:

Atarlost wrote:

Monks and druids aren't proficient in all simple weapons so they should be out of luck, but all other classes would be able to pick up a firearm and use it with a bit of instruction. They can use crossbows after all and firearms have the same "user interface".

Wait, is your reasoning that Monks/Druids can't use firearms because they don't have simple weapon proficiency or because they don't have crossbow proficiency? Keep in mind that Wizards also don't have simple weapon proficiency.

Wizards are proficient with light and heavy crossbows. Firearms are point and shoot with a trigger. Anyone who can hit with a crossbow can hit with any firearm that's aimable, though some early firearms are so inaccurate that the to hit vs AC system isn't adequate to describe them. Since nonproficiency is an accuracy penalty they should use the same proficiency as crossbows. Nonproficiency could be ruled to effect load times instead, but the rapid reload feat already covers this.