Dangleberry Tagnut |
2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
An issue cropped up in game, regarding Life Link.
As written, it takes a free action to siphon damage from the eidolon to the summoner, at the precise moment that damage occurs.
First; I present the text for free actions;
Free Actions
Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity. Some common free actions are described below.Cease Concentration on Spell
You can stop concentrating on a spell as a free action.Drop an Item
Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action.Drop Prone
Dropping to a prone position in your space is a free action.Speak
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.
The GM's Position:
The write-up for free actions implies (but does not explicitly state) they can only be performed on your own turn. 'Speaking' being specifically called out (as being a free action that can be done during other's turns), implies that is not the case for free actions in general.Given the above, it was ruled that my life link could not be used to protect the eidolon, unless I had a standard action readied for that specific purpose.
My Position:
It never occured to me that free actions were limited to one's own turn; the fact that they are actions that take virtually no time at all, I take to mean they require less thought or effort than even a swift or immediate action (which would interrupt).
I can think of several free actions that are not called out as explicit examples, such as falling down when reduced to negative hp, and dropping items carried when panicked.
I maintain that requiring a readied action goes against the intent of the ability, which is to be an interrupt, and that a designation of a free action was chosen, so as not to limit the uses per round (as would be the case for an immediate action).
Making it an action, only usable on the owner's turn, would force the summoner to spend all his actions readying, or else only allow it to affect such damage as 'falling during one's own move', or
reflective damage (such as punching a barbed devil, or an opponent wearing Fire Shield).
So the question is in two parts;
Is it the intent of the designers, that Life Link should work as an interrupt, versus damage dealt, regardless of whether it is the Summoner or Eidolon's turn? (in which case, a clause to that effect is required in the ability write-up).
And/or;
Is it the intent that free actions are generally only performed during the active character's turn (except in explicit specific cases, such as speech)? Or is it left vague to allow individual GM interpretation on a case by case basis?
Please refrain from any sarcastic remarks regarding the GM or player. The purpose of this thread is not to point fingers, or overturn a ruling.
It was conducted as a gentlemanly discussion at the time, books were referenced, chins were stroked, a ruling was made, which I complied with, and it was suggested it needed clarification later.
No-one lost gold or PA, and it made no difference to the outcome of the scenario, as it would merely have delayed the inevitable by one or two rounds.
Drejk |
This is simply matter of general rule versus specific rule:
Life Link (Su): Starting at 1st level, a summoner forms a close bond with his eidolon. Whenever the eidolon takes enough damage to send it back to its home plane, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of hit points. Each hit point sacrificed in this way prevents 1 point of damage done to the eidolon. This can prevent the eidolon from being sent back to its home plane.
Specific rule of Life Link saying that Summoner can sacrifice hit points to prevent damage whenever the damage is taken and thus overrides the general rule that free actions are taken on your turn.
If the Life Link was to be used with readied action it would not call fro a free action but for a readied action.
Some call me Tim |
This is simply matter of general rule versus specific rule:
Quote:Life Link (Su): Starting at 1st level, a summoner forms a close bond with his eidolon. Whenever the eidolon takes enough damage to send it back to its home plane, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of hit points. Each hit point sacrificed in this way prevents 1 point of damage done to the eidolon. This can prevent the eidolon from being sent back to its home plane.Specific rule of Life Link saying that Summoner can sacrifice hit points to prevent damage whenever the damage is taken and thus overrides the general rule that free actions are taken on your turn.
If the Life Link was to be used with readied action it would not call fro a free action but for a readied action.
+1
As you said, if it was an immediate action you could only do it once per turn. Free actions normally can only be taken on your turn, but there are many cases where the rules allow free actions to be used outside of your turn. (Does that make it a free immediate action or would that be immediate free action?)
Dangleberry Tagnut |
I just consider it a free action, and allow for the possibility that many free actions can interrupt the flow of the round.
An example of that, would be a person up a ladder, holding a flask of alchemists fire. An enemy moves to the base of the ladder, and shakes it, trying to dislodge them.
If the target tries to steady themselves with both hands, they'll have to drop the flask.
Now, some would say, 'you can't attack without having a readied action.'. Or that 'dropping an item isn't specifically called out as being done outside your turn.'.
So, what, it just sort of floats there, until the ladder-climber's next initiative comers up?
I'd have the falling flask interrupt the shaker's turn, though I'd not treat it as an aimed attack. Treat it as BAB +0, with Dex 10 and -4 for firing blind. Still enough to potentially hit the shaker dead-on, but more likely than normal to splash at their side.
That's just one example; I'm sure folks can think of plenty more.
Iridian |
I just consider it a free action, and allow for the possibility that many free actions can interrupt the flow of the round.
An example of that, would be a person up a ladder, holding a flask of alchemists fire. An enemy moves to the base of the ladder, and shakes it, trying to dislodge them.
TL;DR: Free actions are by default your turn only, unless explicitly mentioned otherwise or if GM allows.
The free actions are not just implied to happen during your turn, they're listed in at least two places (CRB p. 13 'Turn', p. 181 'Actions in combat') as things that you can do during your turn. This is explicit.
Also there are many implications that free actions are your-turn-only by default, in that it's explicitly mentioned in couple of places that a particular free action can be performed at any time (CRB p. 42 'Charming smile', p. 67 'Quarry').
+1 to the replies to the OP: the description explicitly says when it can be used as free action, and this overrides the general your-turn-only restriction.
As for the scenario you described: you're playing a pen and paper role playing game, not a CRPG or a tactical player versus GM mind combat. You can always come up with corner cases, where you get to see whether you or your GM is a dork or not, if you can't get into sensible and positive agreement.
Breiti |
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9oh4
Summoner: Can I use life link when it's not my turn, I'm paralyzed, or I otherwise can't take actions?
Although the ability is listed as a free action, it's something a summoner should be able to do at any time the eidolon would take enough damage to send it back to its home plane, even if it's not his turn (as is normally the case when he's being attacked), he's helpless from Strength or Dexterity poison, he's under a hold person spell, and so on. In other words, it's not an action at all, and shouldn't be listed as such.
Update: APG page 56, in the Life Link description, paragraph 1, sentence 2, delete "as a free action"
—Sean K Reynolds, 09/09/11
Dangleberry Tagnut |
That's excellent, and just what I'm looking for.
It does make Diehard an attractive feat for an Eidolon, so it can keep acting, if the damage is not quite enough to take it over (-Con).
Unless there are ways for the Summoner or Eidolon to improve their link to affect 'any damage that would bring the Eidolon to negative hp'?