Spells to watch out for (as a GM)


Advice


From 3.5e, I know that there are a number of spells that can very easily be used in highly unexpected ways that makes them far more powerful than you would at first suspect. Polymorph would be one of the big offenders here.
Pathfinder changed a lot of spells and introduced many new ones, and I don't know them very well yet.

Are there any spells, particualrly at 1st to 4th level, that could cause unexpected trouble by allowing the PCs to do things you normally wouldn't expect?


My first response would be, what do you mean by unexpected trouble? Do you mean, they get around your plans in a way that you didn't expect? That they become extra mischievous?

I, as a GM, have had to struggle through my players often trying to use things in "unconventional" ways. I am slowly letting the reigns out more and letting more of their plans succeed, because hey, if it makes sense, let them do it! It's more fun for them, and my role as a GM is in helping everyone have fun. That has pushed me to be more creative, pushed my "on the spot" GMing to newer levels, and put more inventive and difficult obstacles in their way.

I can't think of any spells that have caused any major issues. Detect Magic is always one that can be hard to remember exists. Detect alignment. A lot of little things. I would recommend you think more in terms of, "Hey, that's a great idea, and my villain didn't think of it, but now his boss knows, and next time will have counter-measures in place" I think you will be less frustrated as a GM, and the players will be more satisfied in overcoming more difficult obstacles.

Silver Crusade

Ones to watch out for at levels 1-4:

Detect Magic: At will detect magic can be a pain if you are not ready for it.

The "Create Pit" line of spells: Difficult to avoid and difficult to climb out of.

Dimension Door: Can make a world of difference to battles.

Fly: See Dimension Door

Hideous Laughter, Hold Person, Sleep etc.: Game changing spells when used correctly

Invisibility: Very powerful spell for stealth and infiltration.

Haste: Significantly improves the power of a party. Often regarded as one of the best 3rd level spells.

Terrible Remorse: Need to tie up a BBEG for 5 rounds? A Sorcerer or Oracle with this spell can do that without a save...


Fly, Invisibility, and Haste I don't see as being that problematic. Very strong, yes, but you have a pretty good idea what boths PCs and NPCs will be doing with them.

I noticed the pit spells as well, but thankfully the setting I'm using doesn't have an ethereal plane or extradimensional spaces, which removes a great deal of the easy get arounds.


FallofCamelot wrote:

Terrible Remorse: Need to tie up a BBEG for 5 rounds? A Sorcerer or Oracle with this spell can do that without a save...

How do you get to 5 rounds without a save? The spells ends after a single successful save.

reference

Silver Crusade

Yes but there's still a round of inaction after the spell even if you pass the save. So a 9th level Oracle or Sorcerer with the spell can cast it each round for 5 rounds with the result that the BBEG sits there getting the snot kicked out of him with no comeback. Hell, just spend 21,000gps on a wand and then you can watch the BBEG weep for 50 rounds for your pleasure. Plus if you are a Neutral spellcaster there's very little that can protect against this...

Fly isn't broken and nor are Haste or Invisibility. However for someone who is not familiar with the system they can be gamechangers.


detect magic is not broken, its just most gm's dont think ahead of time about their effects. (example 1=you have magical traps in a dungeon and are afraid detect magic makes it easy to find them----so place them are under the lead trigger plates and detect magic cant see through lead...example 2=detect magic sees that I have an invisible guy---so before battle he uses the opposite of magic aura and hides all his magic items/self from showing up in detect ---- example 3=after 3 rounds my illusion spell is noticed to being an illusion ok, all this does is give save like you have interacted, the person can still fail it. Oh and dont forget the line that says that multiple effects and higher level effects can hide lower level effects and can cause detect magic to not notice or work properly.

The only spells that were ever really really broken were the 3.5 1st level Orb spells. Those spells are hardly ever allowed in a campaign I play in. Other than that, there really are not many spells that I would say is broken, or need to be watched for. Some casters are just really good at preparing and using their spells to maximum effectivness.

Silver Crusade

I agree none of the spells I mentioned are broken. However they should be considered as they do change the game significantly. As a new GM you should be aware of how these spells work and keep them in mind when designing and running encounters.

The spells are fine in other words, just bear them in mind as you GM.


FallofCamelot wrote:

I agree none of the spells I mentioned are broken. However they should be considered as they do change the game significantly. As a new GM you should be aware of how these spells work and keep them in mind when designing and running encounters.

The spells are fine in other words, just bear them in mind as you GM.

No Terrible Remorse is broken and should be banned especially for a new GM. It is the only spell in the game (I think) that is better to fail the save then to make it.

Which means it is actually better against potential TPK CR creatures, who can make the save on a roll of 2 or better.

This will either guarantee a safe get out of death free or wiping the floor with said BBEG that should without Terrible Remorse result in a TPK.

Grand Lodge

Terrible Remorse is one of the most broken spells in the game. Fail your save and you start hurting yourself, make your save and you're stuck standing there for a round AND are easier to hit. My DM recently house ruled this that if they make their save they just take the -2 to their AC.


I can't really think of any other specific spells that are really troublesome, but I would read up on some of the class abilities. The one that I think of offhand is the witches slumber hex. There might also be issues with the sorcerer fey bloodline or enchantment school.

While most of the "best" 3.5 spells (glitterdust, solid fog, ray of enfeeblement) actually got toned down in Pathfinder, there are a few differences in Pathfinder that I would keep in mind as a GM:

  • Unlimited Cantrips. Detect Magic can now be "always on".
  • +2 to any ability score makes it so that most races can now start with a 20 in their casting stat. Concentration is now based off of that primary stat, so it is more important then ever.
  • Better HP. Arcane casters (even Bards) get their hit dice bumped up, plus a +1 hp per level from favored class. Magic users aren't that squishy anymore.


Detect Magic isn't broken because while it's a cone you actually have to focus on an item or particular area for a round in order to figure out that it's magical, then another round to see what kind of magic it is (for example you may find out it is evocation.) That it's a general scan for magic items is a total misconception, it's only a cone because that's your range of vision and therefore you can focus on anything within your vision.

Terrible Remorse my party just changed, and it is totally not better if you fail - you're still frozen with remorse if you fail you just also have to start killing yourself. We just changed it, if you don't fail you simply don't fail.

In general though I don't worry about it. I encourage innovation in my players. They want to win, and they want to do it with unique tactics. So let them.

Sometimes they will pull off the most insane things and really it's just cool that they thought of it, or they do strange things just for fun.

Once I had a guy use a feather token redwood to launch himself at a flying wizard they were fighting, he had to make some tricky skill checks and saves, and took a bit of damage - but he killed the wizard.

Another time when I was playing I fell into a lava pit trap and survived because I melded with the stone around the lava and then launched myself out shortly after, at this point we took a rest since I (the cleric) was injured rather badly and use the lava trap, stone shape, and create water to make ourselves our own hot spring in the middle of the dungeon.

These are the things you remember, sometimes...often I think, you should let them abuse the spells if it increases the fun factor.


DM's just have to remember when it comes to detect magic to make something's just not feasible to detect magic on. Haste seems like it should be a level higher.


number 1 suggestion. If a player is using a spell over and over and over, look at it carefully, and make sure they are using it properly. Many GM's because of time do not check on what is being used and rely on player honesty. And the players may or may not take advantage (ie. spell "A" does effect X, but if you read further, only if Effect X can occur because of event Y and then Spell "A" can not work) all gaming groups has that 1 player that will take advantage and "cheat". it will happen, you just need to be aware of it.


Tharg The Pirate King wrote:
number 1 suggestion. If a player is using a spell over and over and over, look at it carefully, and make sure they are using it properly. Many GM's because of time do not check on what is being used and rely on player honesty. And the players may or may not take advantage (ie. spell "A" does effect X, but if you read further, only if Effect X can occur because of event Y and then Spell "A" can not work) all gaming groups has that 1 player that will take advantage and "cheat". it will happen, you just need to be aware of it.

I've had some fellow players that are bad at math add an extra 10 onto their damage at higher levels. It seemed often with the numbers 6 and 7.

Scarab Sages

Spider Climb and Slippers of Spider Climb. Suddenly, your players can move on any surface, climb any wall/tower and snipe from a position that enemies can find hard to get through. Not to mention bypassing traps by not walking on the floor or just around them. Sure, they're limitied to a 20 movement and must have both hands free, but those problems can be overcome by waiting.


Now I have terrible remorse.

Enchantment is one of my prohibited schools. :(

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