After reading through The Brinewall Legacy for the second time, I am a little bit concerned about the ratio of roleplaying opportunities to combat encounters.
James repeatedly said in the past that this AP will be role-playing heavy, with a strong focus on the NPC's. But the first module is almost all about the party going into adventure alone, first into Brinestump March and afterwards a large dungeon crawl through Brinewall Castle. The NPC's at first do not play a defined role at all and afterwards stay back at the caravan with Ameiko.
While I suppose that one could put the heavy roleplaying elements into the parts before the party goes off to the march, afterwards when Ameiko and Sandru prepare the caravan and during the journey, those three parts are the ones with the least support in the adventure itself, leaving it all up to the GM to come up with things to say, how to play the NPC's and so on. The write-ups for Ameiko, Shalelu, Sandru and Koya are okay, but could have needed one more page of character history, motivations and habits per character, so that we have something more substantial. I think the minor NPC's the party encounters ( Walthus, Spivey and Kelda ) can also be counted into roleplaying, but there is not that much to do with them outside their assigned roles in the module.
My question is, will the next modules have more support for the roleplaying parts, or will they also be 90% dungeon crawls, exploration and monster hacking instead?
I sold the AP to my players on the merits that it will be one which has much more roleplaying opportunities than others, based on what James said over the last year since it was announced. I would really like to know what I have to look forward to.
I honestly had expected less of a dungeon crawl adventure and more about interacting with interesting NPC's, maybe a lot of diplomacy and more... political situations, so to say. As it stands now, The Brinewall Legacy has far less supported roleplaying opportunities than The Haunting of Harrowstone. I just want to know how the AP will continue in this regard, so that I can adjust the expectations of myself and my group to that.
I concur. The number of political and roleplaying snarls a caravan can get into in Riddleport alone is nearly endless. I understand EXACTLY why Sandru wants to avoid it; but when/if the PCs convince him otherwise, it looks JUST like an urban adventure waiting to happen. But, no love and support from the staff, it seems.
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Part of the reason the NPCs don't play a huge role in the first adventure is because they're higher level than the PCs, and I wanted to avoid the situation where the NPCs are the ones solving the problem, not the PCs.
That said, there's plenty of roleplaying opportunities in the adventure, be they with...
The significant NPC roles will increase somewhat once the PCs outstrip them in level, but not a lot. And there will be more obvious roleplay situations in the future.
The main thing I was speaking about with "more roelplay" is that there are NPCs that accompany the PCs throughout the entire adventure, though, which gives the GM and players the opportunity to interact with them the entire time. That, and the rules for relationship building and romances and rivalries... although the bulk of THOSE rules aren't in the adventure but in the player's guide.
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I concur. The number of political and roleplaying snarls a caravan can get into in Riddleport alone is nearly endless. I understand EXACTLY why Sandru wants to avoid it; but when/if the PCs convince him otherwise, it looks JUST like an urban adventure waiting to happen. But, no love and support from the staff, it seems.
We've already done a few adventures in Riddleport.
We're REALLY trying to NOT duplicate locations in adventure paths, honestly, since that helps them be run in any order you want. You'll note that even though "Brinewall Legacy" starts in Sandpoint, there's actually pretty much NO part of the actual adventure that takes place there. That's by design. We don't want Jade Regent to be TOO disruptive to a Runelords campaign's timing, and the less time we actually spend in Sandpoint, the less disruptive it gets.
You can certainly up the presence of Sandpoint and Riddleport in your game, but that's certainly not going to work well for everyone, especially if they already have plans for Riddleport or Sandpoint in their game.
Thanks for all the answers. I probably should have been more specific what kind of roleplaying I was hoping to see.
I was thinking for example about talking to factions in the Linnorm Kingdoms to secure safe passage through their territory or trying to accrue political influence when the caravan reaches Minkai. Basically roleplaying elements which are in addition to the "go and kill opponent X to proceed" or "find gizmo Y to make everyone love you" elements which seem to be plot points in the middle to late campaign.
And larger character backgrounds for the important ( i.e. relationship-enabled ) NPC's. :p
I concur. The number of political and roleplaying snarls a caravan can get into in Riddleport alone is nearly endless. I understand EXACTLY why Sandru wants to avoid it; but when/if the PCs convince him otherwise, it looks JUST like an urban adventure waiting to happen. But, no love and support from the staff, it seems.
You totally should buy the first installment of Second Darkness and let your players stop at the Gold Goblin. Even most that didn't really like Second Darkness on the whole thought the first installment was great.
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Creative Director
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Thanks for all the answers. I probably should have been more specific what kind of roleplaying I was hoping to see.
I was thinking for example about talking to factions in the Linnorm Kingdoms to secure safe passage through their territory or trying to accrue political influence when the caravan reaches Minkai. Basically roleplaying elements which are in addition to the "go and kill opponent X to proceed" or "find gizmo Y to make everyone love you" elements which seem to be plot points in the middle to late campaign.
And larger character backgrounds for the important ( i.e. relationship-enabled ) NPC's. :p
Well... the whole Linnorm Kingdoms element doesn't actually play into the AP until part 2 anyway.
I think a lot of what you are ultimately looking for needs to be handled at the DM level. There will be round-about 20 days of travel if the Caravan stops in most of the major settlements but there is a lot of opportunity there to really explore the major 4 NPC's without having to sidetrack yourself too much in various places.
I know I've personally created a few 'scenes' to happen along the travel, having rolled up my random encounters already in my planning phase in an attempt to try to bring to life this cast of characters for my players. I also really want this first book worth of adventure to really set the tone for future NPC interactions of later books as things further develop.
What might help you some is come up with just some small scenes for travel along the way where your PC's can interact with said NPC's. Generally try to pick a situation that sets the tone for players future interactions with said NPC.
I'm actually starting another thread at the moment to share some of my ideas and see if I can get some discussion going. Check it out when you have a chance and maybe we can share some idea's.
You totally should buy the first installment of Second Darkness and let your players stop at the Gold Goblin. Even most that didn't really like Second Darkness on the whole thought the first installment was great.
I have the first three AP (RotRL, CotCT, and SD) in completeness. Then the whole economy thing caught up with me; I'm just now crawling out from under the debts that eight months of unemployment bring. So it will be a while before I get more than one or two PF (in PDF format) each month.
But yes! Players liked the contest of the Golden Goblin so much they decided to burn down it down rather than participate in the event. (One of my failed mash-ups. Combining Riddleport with Freeport's Yellow Sign of the Yuan-Ti? I should have handled it better...)
I had drawn a brain dump on that, though, so thanks for reminding me.
And I do see that the ability to run the AP in orders other than they're printed is a HUGE benefit. I think I've relocated Crown of the Kobold king to three different spots in Varisia, for example. But I'd also like to see (not in the main AP, there's limited print space there. Maybe in PDF format?) a GM's Guide for the APs, that has stuff like "how to present NPC X", places/events/people that link to different APs/Adventures, which optional rulesets (mass combat, kingdom building, trials, etc) are of use (but obviously not required), that sort of stuff.
That said, I'm a lazy, lazy GM - I try to put less than one hour of preparation time per day into my adventures. Besides, the groups I have do bizarre things like rappel down the cliffside to investigate the Lighthouse, so I have to improvise. (And also do things like claim the Pool of Wrath for themselves, and try to figure out how to recharge it.)
Well... the whole Linnorm Kingdoms element doesn't actually play into the AP until part 2 anyway.
Sure, I know that. My concern is that the supported material for the next installments of the AP will also be very combat heavy and RP light. I am aware that I can put a lot of free-form RP into the beginning of The Brinewall Legacy, the preparations for the caravan, the journey, the meeting with Walthus, Spivey, Kelda.
But most of that is simply assumed by the adventure to be done by the GM, without giving much hints for special events, maybe some inter-NPC drama or other things like that. As I said, about 90% of the first module was devoted to exploration, dungeon-crawling and killing monsters ( and I will say, those parts were done excellently on the merits of what they are! ).
I simply want to know if the focus will shift a bit more towards interactions with NPC's and factions in the Land of the Linnorm Kings and Minkai later on. I get that much of the enhanced roleplaying factor is with the special NPC's of the caravan, but I am quite anxious to know if there will be more detailed roleplaying opportunities outside of that circle.
For comparison, Carrion Crown mostly is a travelogue. There aren't recurring NPC's, unless the GM puts them into the adventures, but the first five modules are chock full of investigation and interaction with NPC's. A third to half of the first five modules seems to consist of the player characters doing something else than fighting and the modules themselves support this with detailed write-ups of the investigations and NPC's the group is supposed to interact with.
I am curious to know if I can expect something at least somewhat similar during the upcoming five modules for Jade Regent or if the support material of this AP focuses more on exploration, combat and dungeoncrawling, while the roleplaying is assumed to come from the interaction with the important NPC's of the caravan. Because if that is the case, I better start writing my own material ASAP, so that those four people come to life as much as I can make them do that.
I think a lot of what you are ultimately looking for needs to be handled at the DM level. There will be round-about 20 days of travel if the Caravan stops in most of the major settlements but there is a lot of opportunity there to really explore the major 4 NPC's without having to sidetrack yourself too much in various places.
I know I've personally created a few 'scenes' to happen along the travel, having rolled up my random encounters already in my planning phase in an attempt to try to bring to life this cast of characters for my players. I also really want this first book worth of adventure to really set the tone for future NPC interactions of later books as things further develop.
What might help you some is come up with just some small scenes for travel along the way where your PC's can interact with said NPC's. Generally try to pick a situation that sets the tone for players future interactions with said NPC.
I'm actually starting another thread at the moment to share some of my ideas and see if I can get some discussion going. Check it out when you have a chance and maybe we can share some idea's.
I'd love that. We'll talk there about it. :)
I must admit I had hoped James would still have something to say about my last big post in this thread ( the one two up from this one ^^ ). I know I am probably worrying too much, but I really think I need to know what we have to look forward to.
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Creative Director
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I must admit I had hoped James would still have something to say about my last big post in this thread ( the one two up from this one ^^ ). I know I am probably worrying too much, but I really think I need to know what we have to look forward to.
First of all... I do more than answer these boards here at Paizo, so I can't stay 100% on top of every thread I'm participating in. Sometimes it takes more than 24 hours for me to answer, because I get distracted by things like developing Bestiary 3, outlining Adventure Paths, going to meetings, eating dinner, playing video games, sleeping, reading, socializing with friends, etc.
Frankly, it sounds like you're looking for a LOT more roleplay stuff in there than the average gamer, so I suspect that you'll probably not regret going through and adding more roleplaying options to the adventures as you go.
Because the roleplaying areas I mentioned in Brinewall are precisely the type of things that I count as roleplaying options—encounters that can be resolved by either roleplay or by combat. The harpy from Brinewall's a GREAT example. Just because there's a stat block in the encounter doesn't mean you as the GM have to use it if the PCs find another way to deal with the situation.
Are there more roleplaying heavy elements in the latter adventures? Yes; things like feasts and recruiting allies and negotiating peace between feuding individuals and rooting out treacheries and the like do pop up in the adventures pretty frequently, but I'm not going to go through and list them all here for you. The better bet, if it's that much of a concern, is to wait for all 6 parts of Jade Regent to be published before running the campaign in the first place, so you'll know for sure what parts will need to be adjusted for your style of game.
I must admit I had hoped James would still have something to say about my last big post in this thread ( the one two up from this one ^^ ). I know I am probably worrying too much, but I really think I need to know what we have to look forward to.First of all... I do more than answer these boards here at Paizo, so I can't stay 100% on top of every thread I'm participating in. Sometimes it takes more than 24 hours for me to answer, because I get distracted by things like developing Bestiary 3, outlining Adventure Paths, going to meetings, eating dinner, playing video games, sleeping, reading, socializing with friends, etc.
Frankly, it sounds like you're looking for a LOT more roleplay stuff in there than the average gamer, so I suspect that you'll probably not regret going through and adding more roleplaying options to the adventures as you go.
Because the roleplaying areas I mentioned in Brinewall are precisely the type of things that I count as roleplaying options—encounters that can be resolved by either roleplay or by combat. The harpy from Brinewall's a GREAT example. Just because there's a stat block in the encounter doesn't mean you as the GM have to use it if the PCs find another way to deal with the situation.
Are there more roleplaying heavy elements in the latter adventures? Yes; things like feasts and recruiting allies and negotiating peace between feuding individuals and rooting out treacheries and the like do pop up in the adventures pretty frequently, but I'm not going to go through and list them all here for you. The better bet, if it's that much of a concern, is to wait for all 6 parts of Jade Regent to be published before running the campaign in the first place, so you'll know for sure what parts will need to be adjusted for your style of game.
Sorry for being pushy, James. :(
I am in the phase of my group prepping for the campaign, them building characters and their backgrounds. I've been telling them that the AP is very roleplaying heavy, and after comparing Haunting of Harrowstone with The Brinewall Legacy, I got a bit nervous, because HoH seemed to have way more active support for NPC interaction than TBL.
I wasn't looking for a detailed list of roleplaying opportunities, the list of things to come you posted in your last paragraph is quite enough to put my mind at ease. I am looking forward to the next module. :)
I must admit I had hoped James would still have something to say about my last big post in this thread ( the one two up from this one ^^ ). I know I am probably worrying too much, but I really think I need to know what we have to look forward to.First of all... I do more than answer these boards here at Paizo, so I can't stay 100% on top of every thread I'm participating in. Sometimes it takes more than 24 hours for me to answer, because I get distracted by things like developing Bestiary 3, outlining Adventure Paths, going to meetings, eating dinner, playing video games, sleeping, reading, socializing with friends, etc.
Frankly, it sounds like you're looking for a LOT more roleplay stuff in there than the average gamer, so I suspect that you'll probably not regret going through and adding more roleplaying options to the adventures as you go.
Because the roleplaying areas I mentioned in Brinewall are precisely the type of things that I count as roleplaying options—encounters that can be resolved by either roleplay or by combat. The harpy from Brinewall's a GREAT example. Just because there's a stat block in the encounter doesn't mean you as the GM have to use it if the PCs find another way to deal with the situation.
Are there more roleplaying heavy elements in the latter adventures? Yes; things like feasts and recruiting allies and negotiating peace between feuding individuals and rooting out treacheries and the like do pop up in the adventures pretty frequently, but I'm not going to go through and list them all here for you. The better bet, if it's that much of a concern, is to wait for all 6 parts of Jade Regent to be published before running the campaign in the first place, so you'll know for sure what parts will need to be adjusted for your style of game.
1) I like the little RP chances with the monsters. Not only that small role playing things like with the Halfling ranger. If players like RP they tend to take those elements and run with it. It matters little what you put into a book, if players want to RP they will. You can toss a feast in for example but crap not every group will RP. I mean for my main group of player(were running a CoC game right now than back to PF) just deciding how to go over a bridge will break down to squabble inside the group in character. That cause I got people who love RP, when I am more of a hack n slash DM. it works.
2)thank you james for being on the boards. You and others who talk to fans and seem to put your fans first are one of the biggest drawing points of this product. I really appreciate it.