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For those that have actually banged out the maths, what actually turns out to be a better choice for pulling off the image of a (mostly) unarmored barbarian across the level range you usually see in Adventure Paths(1-15)?
I know Savage Barbarian eventually comes into its own in late levels, but the most common workaround for it early weakness(to simply wear armor anyway) is really unacceptable from a flavor standpoint. But would going Invulnerable really make it any more managable during those levels?
Has Savage Barbarian become noticably more managable(while preserving flavor) after UC?
Current relevant stats:
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 9
WIS 12
CHA 12 (yeah I know, yes I need it this high for other reasons)
Well if you want to invest some in wisdom and sacrifice a little BAB you could take a martial artist level, which is not alignment restricted, to simulate the savage barbarian, it requires some window dressing ofcourse, but it is not so much different than the fist of the forest PrC in 3.5
You do get better saves, wisdom bonus to AC, more class skills, flurry of blows, a bonus feat(dodge), a monk's improved unarmed strike and stunning fist. It can be quite useful, even if you will rarely get to use flurry of blows.
You could take 5 levels of martial artist and become immune to fatigue, gain a bunch of bonus feats, the ability to potentially punch through solid walls, and a higher AC. It doesn't necessarily violate the concept.
If you had planned on making the barbarian a Beast Totem barbarian, you could take the combat style feat to allow you to use IUS abilities with natural attacks. A barbarian with Stunning Fist might be amusing.
I know that you wanted to know mid levels but I always like to know the limit's of a build's abilities
I think it's worth noting that the natural armor from the beast totem feats doesn't stack with the savage barbarian's natural armor bonus- which is frustrating. I'd go with invulnerable rager and take the beast totem line. You'll want to stock up on defensive items either way- missing out on armor is something that needs made up for after all. Note- you'll need to wear of physical might, to boost dex as well as str, again to keep up AC.
Here's what 20th level looks like:
+5 ring of protection.............50k gold
+5 amulet of natural armor........50k gold
+8 bracers of armor...............64k gold
+6 belt of physical might.........90k gold
for a total of +21 AC............154k gold
that's the base line, either archetype can make use of that AC.
the invulnerable rager adds DR10/- (DR12/- if you spend the rage powers to boost it) and +6 natural armor from beast totem.
the savage barbarian adds no DR(DR2/- if you spend the rage powers), +3 dodge bonus, and +5 natural armor bonus (if you take the beast totem you can instead take the +6 natural armor from the rage power)
Now, using your stats that gives us (including the -2 penalty to AC from raging):
Invulnerable Rager: DR12/-, AC 36, Flat Footed 32, Touch 19
Savage Barbarian: DR2/-, AC 41, Flat footed 32, Touch 24
Invulnerabe Rager with +5 mithral breastplate (costing 29,350 gold for a +5 breastplate, or 104,350 for a +10- either one gives the same AC bonus)
DR12/-, AC 40, Flat Footed 38, Touch 19
So, yes at high levels the Savage Rager does pay out, even with the totem not stacking, but it's not easy getting there. I'd say that by level 10 you're character should be good to play, but those low levels (1-5) will be rough.
Also: 6 levels of martial artist could do a lot: Wisdom (plus 1) to AC, better saves, fast movement +20, evasion, fatigue immunity, and exploit weakness- spend a swift action for a chance to raise my AC by half my monk level against one foe for one round- usable at will? Sign me up!
As a barbarian it's pretty easy to trash your AC with Reckless Abandon, Pounce, and Come and Get Me. So I'd say grabbing some DR might be more useful, plus Invulnerable Rager get's endure elements for free, so you can continue being shirtless in extreme weather.
Minstrelin --
Mithril +5 breastplate offers +11 to AC.
You'll get all but 1 point from your Dex too.
So the Baselines of both would be:
Savage: +21 (as you have it)
Invulnerable: +23 (mithral breastplate instead of bracers of armor)
Adding the class features (or totems):
Savage: +30
Invulnerable: +29
So I'm seeing:
AC 40 and 39.
Now in UC there is the stalwart feat that allows you to turn dodge bonus into DR that stacks with class based DR (and improved Stalwart which allows the amount to go higher) -- with improved Stalwart the invulnerable rager could be looking at DR 22/-
Minstrelin --
Mithril +5 breastplate offers +11 to AC.
You'll get all but 1 point from your Dex too.
So the Baselines of both would be:
Savage: +21 (as you have it)
Invulnerable: +23 (mithral breastplate instead of bracers of armor)Adding the class features (or totems):
Savage: +30
Invulnerable: +29So I'm seeing:
AC 40 and 39.
Now in UC there is the stalwart feat that allows you to turn dodge bonus into DR that stacks with class based DR (and improved Stalwart which allows the amount to go higher) -- with improved Stalwart the invulnerable rager could be looking at DR 22/-
I'm counting the base dexterity of 12 in the first post- boosting the numbers up by one.
Yup for some reason I was seeing the 16 Con as the Dex -- so never mind my bad.