Hello good folks! Well, my current campaign is ending somewhere in the near future (we're finishing RotRL) and since I'm GMing our next campaign, me and my players started to wonder which AP to play next.
As some might have noticed my replies on other threads, Carrion Crown is a strong possiblity. I already read it once, I'm starting to read it again and already took some notes about things I will add and so on. However, Legacy of Fire is another AP that I'm very inclined to play, and so are my players (though I haven't read it thoroughly, I only read the campaign outline and the adventure summaries). So far, I would say we are 50/50 on which one to play next.
So I kindly ask those that GMed/played any or both APs for ways that I could explain to my players what they should expect from each one, without spoiling the story, etc... That way, I guess I'll find the one my players are more interested in right now.
Thanks in advance!
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Of the two, I would say a good way to pick is to figure out how the players feel about racing down linear paths. If starting from way behind and striving madly to catch up in time pretty much the whole way sounds good, pick Carrion Crown. If instead your group likes the kind of race where you start out strong and kick up a bunch of dust, have others chase you, and when the dust settles a little you find that a hairpin turn upsets things so that the race goes down to the wire, pick Legacy of Fire.
In Carrion Crown, the group discovers some bad guys up to no good and from there, the PCs will be trying to figure out what they're up to and stop them, mostly reacting to what they do in hot pursuit. In LoF, the PCs start out making names for themselves and building themselves up in the world, and only in the course of that do they discover a great danger that threatens them and all they have achieved.
Also worth noting: the LoF books featured side-trek adventures that are less tightly connected to the AP plot than the main adventure, but which are needed to give everyone enough XP to keep up.
The main thing I'd sketch out are the themes, I think.
Some groups think the Arabian Nights and Genies thing in LoF is great; others are indifferent at best to that theme. If you have players who won't get into making Katapeshi characters, I think LoF is a harder sell.
Similarly, some groups will get really excited about the urban focus of CotCT and the idea of spending roughly 2/3 of the AP in the same one city; others will have less fun with that concept.
I'm not completely sure where CotCT sits difficulty-wise (I've read most of it and plan to run it next, but haven't yet done so), but in my experience Legacy of Fire throws a lot of heat early on and then lets up considerably, which may be the opposite of what some players expect.
Both APs will benefit a lot from a GM who has read the whole thing at least once before trying to run it, and who has a sense of which story hooks his or her players might not be as likely to follow -- I'm not saying either is flawed, but I think both benefit a lot from just a small amount of foreshadowing and tweaking as appropriate for your specific players.
Thanks for the replies! Now to the details:
@logic_poet:
I guess my players won't mind too much the railroady aspect of both APs, as they are more the kind of players that like to "play the story" more so than the "drop me on that sandbox!" kind (the main reason I'm staying away from Kingmaker... sadly).
Also, I didn't know about those sidetrecks in LoF! How good are they executed and how easy it is to use them? Although my players are fine with railroads, they like the eventual side-quest, so that could be a thumbs up for LoF.
@Dire Mongoose:
I guess you misread Carrion Crown as Curse of the Crimson Throne?
Anyways, I'm glad you bought up CotCT, because that was another possibility. Theme-wise, me and my players love both Gothic horror and Arabian Nights themes, and that's one of the main reasons why I'm finding it so hard to choose one of the two. And now that I think of it, we're not too much into urban adventures, so I guess CotCT is out (at least for now).
On a side note, how hard would it be to convert LoF for Pathfinder? I think my prep time is somewhat limiting, so any tips would be apreciated!
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I've run LoF for a PF group, and am currently playing in Trial of the Beast.
You can find conversions of LoF to PF online, at least for the first five adventures. There are one or two encounters with WotC IP monsters that you may need a 3.5 MM for. One word of caution: PF paladins and alchemists are very strong in the latter half of the AP. A huge sample of foes are evil outsiders with cold vulnerability. My group had those two and a water bloodline sorcerer - they were able to kill many encounters in one round between big cold damage and smite evil. If your players are at all powergamers expect them all to take "Finding Haleen" as their campaign trait (I had three, Haleen got around I guess).
The side missions fit into the AP with varying degrees of success; I dangled them in front of my players but left them clearly optional. They chose to do two of them. (I didn't worry about XP as we use "plot timed" leveling for APs)
LoF has very little downtime or shopping in the second half. If your players are used to making/buying custom equipment that can be an issue. Adventures 2 and 5 are basically big dungeon crawls.
From what I've seen of CC, there is a lot more interaction with townsfolk, investigation, and roleplaying. So far it's felt like there is a timer on everything we do, so downtime has been at a premium. We are also having to be proactive and creative about how we deal with problems, sometimes the plot is only giving gentle nudges about what to do next.
Hope some of this helps. I can't give a fuller overview of CC because we're just not that far in yet.
I DM'd Legacy of Fire and one of my players kept a journal here on Paizo (Sarharan Cantos}. It is only 54 posts, so not a long read.
Also, as LoF is an older AP, there is a lot of material on this board, including a side quest or two for early in the campaign.
I haven't read Carrion Crown because one of the guys wants to run it later and I want to be surprised.
-- david
Papa.DRB
Both are great APs. They are share a lot in common. Both very linear APs, with heavy plots, and both of them are very rushed with no downtime.
And the biggest issue for each is theme. You can't just play whatever you want in either of them: you will be drenched in the genre the whole way through. Make sure you and every PC are 100% on-board with that theme. I'm sure you are well aware of what these themes are, so I won't touch upon them.
However, interesting thing about alignment and reputation that might not be obvious:
Legacy of Fire: This is one of, if not the only, AP where the heroes get to be Good Guys, with a capital-G, the entire way through. Every other AP forces the PCs to get in bed with the bad guys or otherwise dabble in evil. Not this AP. You can be a chest-thumping Paladin the whole way through.
Your characters will always be thought well of. You will be in positions of respect, and NPC good-guys will look up to you, and NPC bad-guys will view you as a worthy foe.
Carrion Crown: Every chapter of this AP has a tough moral dilemma. Your character's soul will be stained by the end of the AP. You often must help evil to prevent an even greater evil. Players who enjoy messing around in the muck of ethics and trying to define "what is the right thing to do?" will really enjoy this AP. People that just want to be Paladins and smite the evil... they will hate it.
Your characters will always be despised. The "friendly" NPCs are xenophobic and bigoted, and this comes up repeatedly in the story and even has mechanical-backup. They will treat you like trash, even as you try and save them. And the bad-guy NPCs will laugh at your pathetic attempts to try and attack them, as they view you as no more than an insect.
All of this might not make a big deal to you as GM, but think carefully about how your players will react to this on an emotional level after they've been in the campaign for a few months.
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The other big thing is mechanical emphasis. Legacy of Fire is pretty old-school D&D: it has a lot of dungeons, and hits up a lot of varied locations, so you'll want to be able to do a little bit of everything, including lots of combat. You'll want a pretty standard class load-out. Carrion Crown plays more like a Call of Cthulhu mod than a D&D mod. You'll want characters who emphasize skill-points and players that enjoy extended roleplay-sessions and involved detective work. My PCs have never actively taken notes before this campaign.
Hope that helps!
Thanks a lot for all the responses! Now I think I can explain and tell a little about each AP to my players without spoiling anything important... Tonight we're meeting for our weekly RPG session, I'll talk to my players and see how it goes.