Just double checking. Pathfinder has basically made these small, expendable throwing daggers.
They're single use
Are enchanted/bought like ammunition
you can sneak attack multiple times with them in a round.
You add your strength bonus to damage with them.
They're single use.
Destroyed if it hits, 50% chance of recovery otherwise.
Are enchanted/bought like ammunition.
Yes.
you can sneak attack multiple times with them in a round.
Don't see why not.
You add your strength bonus to damage with them.
Yes.
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you can sneak attack multiple times with them in a round.Don't see why not.
I believe you need the quickdraw feat to throw more than one weapon in a round. Other than that, you're spot on. A high strength ninja with the clustered shot feat and the flurry of stars trick (or just rapid shot) can shred damage reduction with these.
I believe you need the quickdraw feat to throw more than one weapon in a round.
Yes, sorry, I neglected to mention QuickDraw in my response.
I believe you need the quickdraw feat to throw more than one weapon in a round
Shuriken: A shuriken is a small piece of metal with sharpened edges, designed for throwing. A shuriken can't be used as a melee weapon. Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
Ammunition: Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), darts (for blowguns), or sling bullets (for slings and halfling sling staves). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading (as noted in their descriptions). Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.
Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
So if i'm worried about making full attacks mixing up melee and ranged it doesn't seem like i need quick-draw.
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An Empty Handed Monk also makes good use of shiruken since he considers any small object that can be thrown as a shiruken.
Take Profession: Carpenter using your toolbox for weapons, throw nails at enemies. Or Profession: Butler/Maid and throw table knives and forks at people.
But the funniest one might be to take the Vow of Poverty and get rid of the money you find by throwing it at your opponents. The best part of this is that five silvered shiruken will cost three gold, whereas that same three gold will get you thirty silver pieces.
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I believe you need the quickdraw feat to throw more than one weapon in a round
Shuriken: A shuriken is a small piece of metal with sharpened edges, designed for throwing. A shuriken can't be used as a melee weapon. Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
Ammunition: Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), darts (for blowguns), or sling bullets (for slings and halfling sling staves). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading (as noted in their descriptions). Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.
Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
So if i'm worried about making full attacks mixing up melee and ranged it doesn't seem like i need quick-draw.
I don't see anywhere that says shuriken are a free action to draw in the quoted part about Ammunition... When using a bow you may draw arrows as a free action; crossbows & slings require an action for reloading (but I notice they did not mention what action it is to draw a bolt or bullet).
So, do we infer that drawing any form of ammunition is a free action? But a projectile weapon may have an additional action needed to reload it?
Seems that way.
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I believe you need the quickdraw feat to throw more than one weapon in a round
Shuriken: A shuriken is a small piece of metal with sharpened edges, designed for throwing. A shuriken can't be used as a melee weapon. Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
Ammunition: Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), darts (for blowguns), or sling bullets (for slings and halfling sling staves). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading (as noted in their descriptions). Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.
Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
So if i'm worried about making full attacks mixing up melee and ranged it doesn't seem like i need quick-draw.
I don't see anywhere that says shuriken are a free action to draw in the quoted part about Ammunition... When using a bow you may draw arrows as a free action; crossbows & slings require an action for reloading (but I notice they did not mention what action it is to draw a bolt or bullet).
So, do we infer that drawing any form of ammunition is a free action? But a projectile weapon may have an additional action needed to reload it?
Seems that way.
I woul dhave to read the whole thing as it is a free action to retrieve ammunition, including shurikens.
One other question - can't you throw two weapons as a full attack without qruick draw, one from each hand, two weapon fighting penalties applying as needed?
Avery very annoying point that was just brought up with my group:
Thrown Weapons: The wielder applies his Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons). It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn't have a numeric entry in the Range column on Table: Weapons), and a character who does so takes a –4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.
Some of us argue that it only applies to improvised thrown weapons...but it's very oddly worded in that case.
Avery very annoying point that was just brought up with my group:
Thrown Weapons: The wielder applies his Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons). It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn't have a numeric entry in the Range column on Table: Weapons), and a character who does so takes a –4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.Some of us argue that it only applies to improvised thrown weapons...but it's very oddly worded in that case.
I'd argue that the bolded portion only applies to weapons without a listed range increment such as a longsword or club as they weren't made with the intent of being thrown in combat. This is backed up by the next sentence which would contradict the weapon stat block if it applied to weapons like daggers and spears. Thus, I think it's safe to assume it only applies to improvised thrown weapons.
I believe you need the quickdraw feat to throw more than one weapon in a round
Shuriken: A shuriken is a small piece of metal with sharpened edges, designed for throwing. A shuriken can't be used as a melee weapon. Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
Ammunition: Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), darts (for blowguns), or sling bullets (for slings and halfling sling staves). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading (as noted in their descriptions). Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.
Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
So if i'm worried about making full attacks mixing up melee and ranged it doesn't seem like i need quick-draw.
I don't see anywhere that says shuriken are a free action to draw in the quoted part about Ammunition... When using a bow you may draw arrows as a free action; crossbows & slings require an action for reloading (but I notice they did not mention what action it is to draw a bolt or bullet).
So, do we infer that drawing any form of ammunition is a free action? But a projectile weapon may have an additional action needed to reload it?
Seems that way.
I woul dhave to read the whole thing as it is a free action to retrieve ammunition, including shurikens.
One other question - can't you throw two weapons as a full attack without qruick draw, one from each hand, two weapon fighting penalties applying as needed?
If you have a BAB of 6+, you could throw one at full BAB and the other as your second iterative, no TWF needed. TWF only applies if you're trying to get more attack than you'd normally have with your iteratives.
Given that Shuriken are treated as ammunition that doesn't require a weapon to fire it from, I'd rule that the Rapid Shot feat would apply instead of TWF.
Why not both!? Huzzah!
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Given that Shuriken are treated as ammunition that doesn't require a weapon to fire it from, I'd rule that the Rapid Shot feat would apply instead of TWF.Why not both!? Huzzah!
I think you can combine them, but suffer the cumulative -4 penalty to each attack... In addition to all the other penalties associated with ranged combat such as firing into melee (-4, mitigated with Precise shot) and soft cover provided by allies and enemies alike (-4, mitigated by Imp. Precise Shot).
That's a staggering -12 to attack, and it's easy to imagine a scenario where they all come into play.
Given that Shuriken are treated as ammunition that doesn't require a weapon to fire it from, I'd rule that the Rapid Shot feat would apply instead of TWF.Why not both!? Huzzah!I think you can combine them, but suffer the cumulative -4 penalty to each attack... In addition to all the other penalties associated with ranged combat such as firing into melee (-4, mitigated with Precise shot) and soft cover provided by allies and enemies alike (-4, mitigated by Imp. Precise Shot).
That's a staggering -12 to attack, and it's easy to imagine a scenario where they all come into play.
Its also easy to imagine where that may not be a bad idea eh? Like that moment deciding whether to close and let the enemy get their full attack or throw a bunch of stuff and let him close with you. And you get your full attack!
Its also easy to imagine where that may not be a bad idea eh? Like that moment deciding whether to close and let the enemy get their full attack or throw a bunch of stuff and let him close with you. And you get your full attack!Given that Shuriken are treated as ammunition that doesn't require a weapon to fire it from, I'd rule that the Rapid Shot feat would apply instead of TWF.Why not both!? Huzzah!I think you can combine them, but suffer the cumulative -4 penalty to each attack... In addition to all the other penalties associated with ranged combat such as firing into melee (-4, mitigated with Precise shot) and soft cover provided by allies and enemies alike (-4, mitigated by Imp. Precise Shot).
That's a staggering -12 to attack, and it's easy to imagine a scenario where they all come into play.
Especially if they're still flat-footed and you have sneak attack...
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If you have Sneak Attack, you probably have 3/4 BAB. If that's the case I am willing to bet that combining TWF and Rapid Shot would result in a reduction of DPR, in the same way that 3/4 BAB characters actually do less damage (more often than not) when they combine feats like Deadly Aim or Power Attack with Rapid Shot or TWF.
Simply put, it is generally better for 3/4 BAB characters to minimize the amount of penalties they take on each attack.