But people should read the Vlad Taltos books.
You know KaeYoss, that's valuable enough advice that I may just slip a dead teckla in your bed to show how much I care.
Assassinating players is totally fair game, but you need to be sensative to your players and the style of game they are expecting.
My players know me well, and they know I run a gritty and realistic game. They pretty much expect assassins at some point, and are a little disappointed when they don't show up. "What do you mean nothing happens?!?! I thought we really pissed the BBEG off, oh well we just need to try harder next time"
In your case, your players may not be used to the idea that they are fair game all the time. I would definately give them a few warning shots before I go in and gank one of them. The earlier suggestion about using a thief to steal the item instead of an assassin seems appropiate.
what you really want to avoid is an us vs them mentality. if you tell your sleeping player to roll a perception check at -10, and he fails, and then say , ok, roll a save, and then he fails, and you say ok, you died. gubnock the assassin just took you out for not returning the book, you're going to lose 99.9% of your GM Street Cred with your group.
that's a fact.
That's not a fact. That's your opinion. A possibility, sure, but not a fait accompli.
A different possibility is that if you keep treating the players like raw eggs ("I won't do this because it might be considered unfair by some"), they will pick up on it and walk all over you.
I've seen that happen a lot more often than I've seen stern but reasonable lessons turn the GM into a bad guy.
Chances are the players will be able to get the victim raised from the dead. That will set them back a couple thou, and it's likely the victim will feel like crap for a while until the negative levels are taken care of, but unless those players are brain dead, they will realise that they don't always get to choose their battlefields, and be better prepared next time.
Stuff about Vlad Taltos books.
Interesting sounding background. Is the book's plot good?
And returning to the topic.
I am in "instant killing PCs" is no fun camp. Good challenge is fun, on the other hand.
(if any of my players happens to enter the PF messageboard and wander here, keep out - especialy Metus)
I've played (and DMed) at least one high-level campaign who was like that: PCs lived in fear and paranoia 24/7. They only camped at Rope Trick/refuge/mansion spells and were prone to teleporting to safe places and getting back the other day.
It sucked.
There are more states of being than complete recklessness and absolute paranoia. This is not a on-off switch where you must choose between two idiotic extremes. In fact, the extremes tend to be among the worst choices.
Nobody wants them to turn into paranoid nuts. But a healthy portion of caution is important, especially for adventurers.
Lying in the highway is not a useful analogy.
Actually, it is: It is a really reckless and idiotic thing to do, just like completely letting your guard down as an adventuring group that has known enemies in town.
Plus, both have been done.
The point here is that the GM wants to balance consequences against abuse of his power, since he has absolute power over the PCs.
Targeting obvious, even glaring, weaknesses is by no means an abuse of power.
We're not talking about 1st-level characters being hunted by a great wyrm red dragon because they dared to wander off the railway tracks.
And opportunity frequently doesn't make a thief. I'm sure everyone has done something stupid like left a wallet in plain view on his car seat or forgotten it on a table in a restaurant, only to find it later exactly where he left it, or to get it back later from someone decent.
Note that I never said "Opportunity always makes a thief." Sure, it's not impossible that you won't suffer from carelessness or recklessness. Some people do it all the time. Fortune favours fools.
But depending on it isn't a good idea. Not a good idea at all. And getting bent out of shape when your wallet is stolen the 101th time you leave it somewhere is even less reasonable.
When you're lucky and nothing happens despite your recklessness, it isn't a cause for feeling more confident and letting your guard even further down. It's a cause to thank the Lady and learn from the whole thing.
Most people go unvictimized most of the time, even if they are not being sensible. It's not your job as GM to ensure that the universe punishes the PCs every time they do something you think isn't smart. That's neither fun nor believable.
Neither is it the GM's job to behave like a computer and blind his NPCs to obvious opportunities.
It's the GM's job to make believable and consistent worlds and NPCs. In this case, the guy has tried one approach (send over thugs to tell them to give it back) and hit hasn't worked. Unless he's a total idiot, the guy will realise that this won't work, so he'll try something else. Taking out a hit on the guys is a very logical next step. The usual assassin won't run from his meeting with his client straight to the target and start attacking him.
These guys tend to be methodical. They observe their target from a save distance. And when he sees that they don't bother with guards, only his evil alignment will prevent him from giving back half his payment because this was such an easy job.
Does the party realize that they have stolen something so valuable to warrant an assassin to be hired?
Sounds that way:
"So one character in our campaign stole a very powerful book from a very powerful NPC. Now the NPC has sent several minions after the character in the past. These minions have always demanded the book, and attacked when the character (and the party), refused to hand over the book.
The NPC is getting frustrated and is thinking to just send an assassin after the character, kill them in their sleep and take the book."
But people should read the Vlad Taltos books.You know KaeYoss, that's valuable enough advice that I may just slip a dead teckla in your bed to show how much I care.
Hee hee. That's funny. And I will take it in the spirit it is given. I'm sure to revive you afterwards!
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GM to one of the PCs: "You wake up in the middle of the night feeling an intense need to pee. You stumble out of bed and into the privy, making use of the chamber pot. When you're finished you stagger back to your bed and the sweet embrace of sleep. That's when you notice an assassin standing over your bed, dagger in hand. He seems surprised to see you out of bed. Roll for initiative."
Doesn't punish the player for not thinking like a paranoid bastard, but allows you to realistically use an assassin. Also, it's generally a huge wake-up call to players who forget that they have to be paranoid bastards to make it to level 20.
Remember that the PC will be unarmed and unarmored when s/he fights the assassin, so make sure its not a high level assassin. The first one usually isn't. And have the assassin be smart - have him run when he's sighted. Just finding an assassin in your room is wake-up call enough, and there's plenty of good reasons why an assassin who found his target awake would choose to flee rather than risk getting caught up in a fight long enough for reinforcements to arrive.
Stuff about Vlad Taltos books.Interesting sounding background. Is the book's plot good?
It's a whole series. 13 books so far (it will be 19), and there is a spin-off series of 5 more books.
I read the first 11 books. I enjoyed them very much. Despite the fact that Vlad is an assassin, the books have a surprisingly lighthearted overtone most of the time. I can only recommend them.
A bit more information:
Vlad is such an Easterner. They call themselves "humans" and the Dragaerans Dragaerans or sometimes elfs.
So the dominant race is not humans, but elves.
Vlad's father was very obsessed with the elves and even bought into one of their great houses (The Jhereg - basically the Mafia house - and one of the two only houses that allows Easterners to "buy into" their houses).
Vlad himself doesn't like them at all (as a foreigner, he was picked on a lot by Dragaeran racists - or speciesists, if you will - and his father basically worked himself to death trying to be one of them). As a youth, he liked beating them up, and when he managed to get into the Organisation itself as a low-level enforcer, he merely made a job out of his passion: Beating up Dragaerans.
He later became an assassin (now he got even more money, and he got to kill the guys). He's knows some of the Dragaeran's sorcery (which is achieved via a link to the Imperial Orb - a powerful artefact every Dragaeran has a link to, and since he has a Jhereg title, he also has access tot he orb) and is also a witch (he learned his own people's witchcraft from his grandfather despite his father's misgivings).
He has a constant companion named Loiosh. Loiosh is a Jhereg (the creature, not the house - all the houses are named after some creature and tend to share some of its characteristics.). Jhereg are small, winged, poisonous lizards, usually quite craven, who tend to be more scavengers than hunters. Vlad and Loiosh share a mental link and a lot of banter during missions.
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Personally, I'd be more inclined to send a rogue, steal the book back, and leave a dagger on their pillow with a note to the effect of:
"You owe me your life. I'll call this due when it suits me. Until then, leave my book and I in peace. You won't get another warning."
Simply this and nothing more.
+1!
That would be perfect for a LE big bad. Even better, if the character is good, make the bad guy cast a geas on him or extort him somehow in an evil service. Say, he has to kill a benevolent noble or community leader to make room for the NPC's puppet.
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Now all this being said I have two cases for this.
Firstly, a long time ago, we had a DM that pretty much said do what you want and it will never bite you in the ass. Now what did this mean? it became a joke to be louder and more annoying the longer we played. As much as we loved the game, we would mock enemies, piss on unholy artifacts etc.
Now a days i still feel a lot of time like you can pretty much walk around pissing in the wind with no blow back. I know its for fun, i know we are storytelling, but to put the fear of God in the Pcs once in awhile to remind them that bad stuff does happen, it can be fun.
The knife through a note on the table where the book should have been, thats fair...Especially if you make some rolls, ask for percetion and laugh and say how he just missed it by this much..
Now if this seems unfair, have the knife appear in the room with a threatening note, but the book is not "found" this way they will feel far less cheated then jsut takinge it, gives some paranoia.
But in the end some gamers, not all, but some need to respect the borders of the world, sometimes a character needs to die to restore balance.
Its a tough one, but its also really unfair to the DM when the PC's wont repsect the world.
Like when the PC encounters a terrible monster for their very first time, no fear jsut charge and thats that. Grr
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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To the OP: what do you want to accomplish?
Is the idea to get the players scared? Then you need to build up the anxiety.
A team of guardsmen informs the party that they will need to leave the city where they nornmally resupply. When they inquire as to why, they find that there's a price on their heads, and the mayor wants to avoid the party's presence drawing assasins to his city.
The PCs encounter, say, a barmaid who casts phantasmal killer on the PC rogue after drugging the party, or a half-ogre ranger who follows the party to their current adventuring location, where he sets traps specifically designed around the weaknesses that the NPC patron knows about.
Then throw the assassination attempt. By that time, they should half expect it.
Assassination sounds harsh, especially over a simple item that can, as be said, just be snatched out of a room at night.
But keep in mind, the PC knows, or at least should know, that he this book is VERY valuable to someone; multiple encounters with henchmen? If necessary using force to retake it? How does this guy still sleeps at night?
But an assassination is a harsh and un-enjoyable experience for any player, let alone an overreaction to retrieve an item.
Just have a rogue/assassin follow them around for a few days (Different disguises? Maybe alter self or other forms of magic?) When enough ‘information’ is gathered this way, simply break into his room and snatch the item, maybe some extra bling bling while he’s at it (those henchmen were rather expensive ... )
And as a warning shot, leave a dagger in the headboard just above the sleeping PC’s head.
Here's my dilemma, my players really don't protect themselves very well when they rest for the evening, especially in inns (they usually get seperate rooms), so it will probably be very easily for an assassin to sneak into the character's room, coup de grace them and probably kill the character (an alchemist).
My question to you is: Is this fair? And if so, have you done it yourself and how did it go?
Reebo
If you want it to be fair it has to be made clear it's an issue in the first place.
There are a lot of games that are, I don't know the word, easy? soft? where there's no random encounter tables, traps, cursed items, anything keeping players from getting the most optimum gear or a reasonable threat of death. Where there's no reason to protect yourself while you sleep because nothing has ever happened while you were asleep. And if players have gotten to 10th level or so? And never protected themselves during sleep, and never had any problem with it? Then no, having an assassin come in and instant kill them would not be fair.
If that is the case then you need to let them know things can happen while they sleep (even if it changes some aspects of the game). After that lesson, which should be an encounter of some sort, if they refuse to change their ways then the assassin may be the way to go, depending upon your game.
Interesting sounding background. Is the book's plot good?
Also, each book has its own style. One of the things Brust is always playing with is the delivery. There've been first-person narratives from Vlad's perspective (the main protagonist), there've been books in third-person, books that are from minor characters' perspectives telling what the major characters did, and so on. There's almost no repeating of perspective. Heck, there's been one where Vlad in-character appeared to be selling a story to an author (heavily implied to be the out-of-character author himself).
Next, some of what KaeYoss described made me cringe. This series is... weird. He explains that Dragaerans are "elfs". While that word is used a couple times throughout the entire series, this is NOT at all a Lord of the Rings or D&D thing. Or at least it doesn't feel that way at all. There's humans and dragaerans and that's it. No dwarves, no orcs. I can't explain without spoilers but the series transcends typical fantasy in that these are technically science-fiction. Go back to the last sentence in the last paragraph about how a book was styled and there's a pretty good hint how.
The tone is... masterful. Vlad is a bad person. Yet you will like him. You will root for him. You will cheer when he "wins", you will cry when... well, you'll cry. You will cringe while he is tortured and you will cringe while he tortures others. You will feel loyalty to the character but at the same time you will always know that if he needed a quarter to call home, you'd probably tell him to rot. You'll wish you could spend a lunch just chatting with him, but you'll also never want to be in the same room as him. The people who surround him are also fully fleshed characters - about whom you will care - as opposed to just background.
The topics of the books range from simple whodunnit type plots to deliberately-die-in-order-to-argue-with-the-gods-and-blackmail-them-into-gi ving-you-something type complicated things. They're all very carefully crafted and you will virtually never see the endings/resolutions coming. Also, Brust has a remarkable habit of slipping in little plot/background details that become hugely critically important two books later. I'm not talking about a minor character turning out to be important. I'm talking about Vlad walking by two merchants arguing over turf turning out to be the cause of an empire-shaking riot that the entire next book is about discovering the cause of. When you finish the book and find out, ALL the clues are there and your mind is good and blown.
Bottom line is that the books are fun, clever, and absolutely not typical.
Don't read them out of sequence as there's spoilers.
So hey, find an e-book from whoever's doing his catalog these days, or hunt down a paperback copy of Jhereg (the first in the series). If it doesn't sell you, I'm sorry for wasting your time and money. But it will sell you.
You could always make it a kidnapping. The big powerful NPC wants to deal with the thief personally. Then the party has a new quest to rescue their friend!
Although an assassin could be 'fair', I do think that this option (kidnapping) or just plain stealing the book back would be the better choice.
Always going with the 'avoid death' should not be used in every encounter/situation. Golarion can be a dangerous place and players should know that. Do not let them get too over confidant.
Assassination sounds harsh, especially over a simple item that can, as be said, just be snatched out of a room at night.
But what of the time-honoured practise of making an example of someone?
what you really want to avoid is an us vs them mentality. if you tell your sleeping player to roll a perception check at -10, and he fails, and then say , ok, roll a save, and then he fails, and you say ok, you died. gubnock the assassin just took you out for not returning the book, you're going to lose 99.9% of your GM Street Cred with your group.
that's a fact.
That's not a fact. That's your opinion. A possibility, sure, but not a fait accompli.
A different possibility is that if you keep treating the players like raw eggs ("I won't do this because it might be considered unfair by some"), they will pick up on it and walk all over you.
I've seen that happen a lot more often than I've seen stern but reasonable lessons turn the GM into a bad guy.
Chances are the players will be able to get the victim raised from the dead. That will set them back a couple thou, and it's likely the victim will feel like crap for a while until the negative levels are taken care of, but unless those players are brain dead, they will realise that they don't always get to choose their battlefields, and be better prepared next time.
if i ever played in a game where that happened, the GM would get a very serious talking to, if not called a very bad name, and I would never play in his game again, and that is a fact.
i don't play or run these games to kill my players, and to me having a player killed in his sleep ruins everything, unless it is part of a planned adventure and you tell the player beforehand.
My group doesn't use Raise Dead spells. We've been gaming together for over 13 years now, through various editions, and they have never used raise dead spells.
I also built fair encounters in which the pc has some chance of scraping by, and Not putting everything on the whim of a die roll. As i already said, if i were to try and do this, the oc would be in a situation where there would be a chance at survival.
I have ganked pc's before with assassins. but they were never asleep, and always had some kind of clue beforehand that something was going on.
my games tend to be cinematic in scope, we use action points, and the like, and in most movies there is usually a bit of tension before something happens. even in that horrid scene from deadwood, the dog barked a split second before IT happened, so if HE was smarter, he would have Ducked instead of sat there looking stupid.
GM's that kill their pc's like this are not good gm's, in my opinion. the game is about fun, and though people can say what goes around comes around, having paranoid players is never good. I as a GM am there to provide and have fun, and tell a story in a fantasical world, not gank pc's in their sleep. god, that reminds me of the old MUD days.
The scenario is "fair" if played by RAW, but I can't imagine a situation in which it is a good idea. Maybe if your players are unsentimental-in-the-extreme hard cases and have a great collective sense of humor.
Otherwise, if the character dies, you can expect one or more players to insist that you set up an unfair death, no matter how fairly you tried to adjudicate it. I invite you to take a step back and imagine the scene, honestly. It's a recipe for accusations of GM railroading. I expect to see one of your players on this site complaining about it the next day.
I would consider accentuating the drama over the rules in this case. Make it one of those situations where the assassin pauses for dramatic effect, just to give the PC a little extra edge. I know it goes against the hard cases to advise that. I will be flamed as being "too soft." But I've been doing this for 31 years now. That's a year for every Baskin Robbins flavor. And I've seen just this sort of thing kill a game more often than not. Is it worth it? Almost never.
Interesting sounding background. Is the book's plot good?** spoiler omitted **...
More about the Taltos Books and totally not explosive runes! Honest!
And to elaborate about the elf thing: It's true that they're not your typical elves. They're really their own race, but they do have some characteristics that are often attributed to elves. Or maybe all their characteristics have been attributed to some elves. Just not D&D elves or Tolkien elves.
"Don't read them out of sequence as there's spoilers."
I want to comment on this. The author Steven Brust has stated that those books should be readable in pretty much any order.
Two possible orders are by release and by timeline.
The books aren't released "in order". The books jump all over the place. Like in one book Taltos will make a short comment about his wife, and in the next he's talking about dating someone. And then he meets his wife (very interesting way to meet someone, by the way) and she becomes an important character in the stories themselves.
And there are constantly references to past events he was part of, and a "later" book tells the story of what happened then.
Have the guy steel the book and all their nice equipment. I would be super pissed if I lost my +3 longsword, but it allows for the campaign to grow (new quest:get back stuff) as opposed to ending the campaign.
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Wow guys! I didn't think this little thread would have so many responses! God bless you all!
Ok some background info, the PC alchemist overhead his master talking to another about a book coming into port - a Book of Infinite Spells from the Eastern Lands i.e. the spells are all from WOTC's Oriental Adventures.
The PC alchemist decided to steal the book himself. Ever since the master has been sending minions (dark creepers) to get the book back and every time the party has defeated them. Recently the book was destroyed in a non-related magical mishap but the master does not know this. He desperately wants the book before it gets used up (too late for that!) and has decided to peel off his kid gloves and hire an assassin to get the book and punish the PC for stealing it in the first place.
After reading your posts I'm inclined to give them a "final warning" and see what they do. There's no point in sending the assassin if the books no longer there. They can easily contact the master if they want as he is in the city they are currently in so its up to them to let him know what happened and face whatever the consequences are or have an assassin show up who gets a "little upset" when he doesn't find the book.
Thanks everyone, please continue discussing if you wish.
Reebo
So they stole an artifact level item, and they are just now getting assassins sent after them? I'd have had assassins show up much earlier, but more overt ones that attack from ambush instead of while the party sleeps. Then have the party member's room at an inn get broken into while they are away, or have them wake during a failed assassination attempt at night, or some similar event to tell the party that they very much need to watch their backs when they sleep.
If after all that they still took no precautions and refused to return the book I'd have no problem having one them wake up to find they are being assassinated, especially since, if they are powerful enough to carry around artifact level items a raise dead won't be out of reach. Most players don't like their PCs to die, but there have to be consequences for actions or the game has no risk, and stealing an artifact should come with lots of risk.
Certainly fair. Give them the relevant skill checks to notice the assassin, and if they fail, the Fort save to avoid death. If you want to make it easier, have the assassin sneak up on them while they are awake.
Agree 100%. They took a possession and aren't giving it back, the NPC has fired a few warning shots and they haven't listened. Send in the big guns and give them a wake up call! Let them know the NPC means business. They won't forget that NPC for very long, and will be looking over their shoulders for a while too. hehe
A book of infinite spells is a minor artifact - they generally don't just catch fire and vaporize...
Still, the bad guy wants his minor artifact back and the PCs are in no position to return it. Have they even tried talking to the mini-onions sent to fetch it back?
If not, definitely time for the heavy hitters.
The "warning shot" is the finger of death from the alley while an anti-paladin Spirit Charges in and smite-skewers some one.
The assassination attempt is that night while the PCs are nursing wounds.
A BBEG with the capacity to acquire and transport such an artifact surely has discern location readily available. Or a cohort mini-onion that does, either works well.
Here is how I have handled assassination attempts in the past when upgrading from simple "mooks demanding stuff" to "Ok, now I mean business".
I'll have the would-be assassin sneak up on the PC and allow the dreaded Perception -10 roll. If the PC succeeds, he wakes up, initiative is rolled with the assassin likely winning, unless the PC is especially crafty and pretends to still be sleeping, etc.
If the PC FAILS, on the other hand, I have the PC roll over or shift or sneeze or something, just before the blow strikes, that prevents the strike from outrightly killing the PC. They still take all that hefty damage, but probably have the HP to survive the initial assault. I then roll initiative and proceed normally. The fight that ensues is likely to be a memorable one considering the PC is probably unarmed, unarmored, seriously wounded and prone.
From this point on, if the player doesn't realize the seriousness of the situation, the next assassin that sneaks up on him asleep alone, WILL probably kill him.
It prevents the "HAHA! YOU'RE DEAD!" thing from happening and the players get that heroic feel instead of "Yay! I got killed in my sleep!"
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Had a thought on another way you could handle this:
If your NPC is particularly cruel, all he needs to do is let the word out that there's a price on the PC's head. Then he proceeds to do everything possible to make the PC afraid for his life: mysterious strangers follow him from the shadows. His rooms get tossed or re-arranged when he's not there, he constantly hears rumors that people are asking about him, or maybe even someone impersonating him. He finds a an ominous note stuck to his headboard when he wakes in the morning, that kind of thing.
In this case, the NPC doesn't want to outright kill him - he just wants to screw with the PC until he agrees to give back the book.
*EDIT*: and to make sure the player is paying attention, break out the rules for Insanity/Paranoia and start asking for saving throws.
I agree that being killed in your sleep isn't grand...
BUT...
The thing about getting assassinated in your sleep is the delicious epic of getting rezzed and going for revenge/justice.
PC: "Remember me?"
Assassin: "What...WHAT?!?!"
PC: "I guess you can't keep a good man down."
~insert arse-kicking here~
PC: "Now before we drag your broken body to the city guard, I have a few questions for you..."
i don't play or run these games to kill my players, and to me having a player killed in his sleep ruins everything, unless it is part of a planned adventure and you tell the player beforehand.
My group doesn't use Raise Dead spells. We've been gaming together for over 13 years now, through various editions, and they have never used raise dead spells.
I also built fair encounters in which the pc has some chance of scraping by, and Not putting everything on the whim of a die roll. As i already said, if i were to try and do this, the oc would be in a situation where there would be a chance at survival.
Honestly you aren't REALLY talking about what the OP put up or Pathfinder then. You're playing a VERY heavily home ruled version of PF. Not to be insulting or say it's wrong but the simple FACT (no pun intended) is PF has ways to return the dead to life. Remove them and fun requires GMs to tone WAY back the amount of deadly.
And these PCs do have a fair chance of getting threw this. They could set up a watch, hire a guard, set an alarm spell, or just put a chair in front of the door. If they aren't taking any actions to CYA it's like a Barbarian who won't wear armor complaining when he keeps getting hit in fights.
Have the guy steel the book and all their nice equipment. I would be super pissed if I lost my +3 longsword, but it allows for the campaign to grow (new quest:get back stuff) as opposed to ending the campaign.
You're totally new to Pathfinder and D&D, aren't you?
Usual response to having a character killed. "Ah well, I'll just make a new one, or we'll raise this one, I have 5000 in chump change".
Usual response to having equipment stolen, destroyed or even threatened - let's say a rust monster appearls. "OH MY GOD NOOOOOOO! KILL IT KILL IT GET A MONK AND A WIZARD AND A DRUID ARMY! NUKE THE WHOLE PLANET!!!!!!!!!!"
;-P
Assassinating players is totally fair game, but you need to be sensative to your players and the style of game they are expecting.You must have some hardcore players if they think assassination is fair game. Generally people stick to assassinating player characters.
We also play Shadowrun now and then. This kind of thing is par for the course in that game.
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After reading your posts I'm inclined to give them a "final warning" and see what they do. There's no point in sending the assassin if the books no longer there.
A final warning? "Give me the book. This is the last warning. Next time, it will be some sneak catching you off guard because you don't expect an assas... oh crap!"
And there's a very valid point in sending the assassin: The guys stole the book and got it destroyed.
You have reputation! You know what is reputation? Is people talking, is gossip. I also have reputation; not so pleasant, I think you know. Crow!
(Crow opens the door to show a tortured man hanging upside-down from the ceiling)
Now for you, my reputation is not from gossip. You see this man? Ehh, he does not do the job. I show you what I do with him, and now for you my reputation is fact. Is solid. You do the train job for me, then you are solid.
Assassinating players is totally fair game, but you need to be sensative to your players and the style of game they are expecting.You must have some hardcore players if they think assassination is fair game. Generally people stick to assassinating player characters.
If your character dies, you die. Much easier all around, and actually means fewer players lost. We won't repeat this Blackleaf nonsense!
So one character in our campaign stole a very powerful book from a very powerful NPC.
That's that only information you need to think about. If players piss off a powerful NPC, there should be hell to pay. If there isn't, then the NPC wasn't really powerful were they?
Send the assassin.
And there's a very valid point in sending the assassin: The guys stole the book and got it destroyed.
You have reputation! You know what is reputation? Is people talking, is gossip. I also have reputation; not so pleasant, I think you know. Crow!
(Crow opens the door to show a tortured man hanging upside-down from the ceiling)
Now for you, my reputation is not from gossip. You see this man? Ehh, he does not do the job. I show you what I do with him, and now for you my reputation is fact. Is solid. You do the train job for me, then you are solid.
Niska had it right. This man knows what he's talking about.
I want to reiterate: if you do send an assassin and get the character killed, your players might initially hold a grudge but will get better as players.
The very first PC death I witnessed was when I was playing a Sorcerer in 3.5e, and we were sleeping in a cave. We awoke to noises outside the cave. I cast Light of Lunia, a spell that makes you radiate and then you can use it as a ranged touch attack for X amount of damage. I was entirely new to the game, so the idea that the monsters outside would now know we were in the cave didn't occur to me. It got 2 PCs killed. My group hated me for it. I learned to think a bit more about my actions. They got over it, and I was a better player.
It got 2 PCs killed. My group hated me for it. I learned to think a bit more about my actions. They got over it, and I was a better player.
I think you neglected to tell the part where they tied you to a flag pole buck naked and smeared parts of your body with dog-food.
A learning experience.
It got 2 PCs killed. My group hated me for it. I learn
ed to think a bit more about my actions. They got over it, and I was a better player.
I think you neglected to tell the part where they tied you to a flag pole buck naked and smeared parts of your body with dog-food.
A learning experience.
I always favored honey for this. Oh, and to the OP, send in the assassins. Lessons are good. And even if the PC can't be revived, the player can still learn from it :)
I would say go for the assassin, but give the character a chance. Have him wake up and roll out of the way at the last second and then have the assassin either try to escape due to the failure, or fight the player one on one. The player would not have any gear so it would still be a very deadly fight, but at least the player has a fighting chance.
We also play Shadowrun now and then. This kind of thing is par for the course in that game.Assassinating players is totally fair game, but you need to be sensative to your players and the style of game they are expecting.You must have some hardcore players if they think assassination is fair game. Generally people stick to assassinating player characters.
Hehehe I know how that goes. Our games, Pathfinder, etc. are similar. When I'm the GM it is about, "What would a bad guy do here?" Not about fairness. My players expect that level of harshness from me and would be disappointed if I didn't deliver. I think they like the challenge.
Not to disparage other styles. I've played in other groups where PC death was almost unthinkable. Those games were enjoyable too.
Personally, I like death to be a distinct possibility. Else they get complacent.
Having been whacked by a crappy 'dm', I warn against the 'assassin in the night' bit. It is a poor storytelling device. Fiat actions take all vestiges of roleplaying out of the game. I would go with the chamberpot bit and have the PC barely escape. 'Powerful NPC'? Then have the NPC rake them over the coals with favors he can call in.
Having been whacked by a crappy 'dm', I warn against the 'assassin in the night' bit. It is a poor storytelling device. Fiat actions take all vestiges of roleplaying out of the game. I would go with the chamberpot bit and have the PC barely escape. 'Powerful NPC'? Then have the NPC rake them over the coals with favors he can call in.
What's "fiat" about it? The player stole the item from his master. The player has had repeated visits from people, well things anyway, trying to recover this piece of property. He apparently betrayed someone, someone powerful, that he knows to get it. Sending in the assassins seems like just another notch up. It's not like the assassin is just popping randomly into his life over just another piece of loot. It's personal, the reason is known and there is precedent in the NPC having forcefully demonstrated his displeasure on prior occassions. Any PC who hasn't taken precautions at this point is pretty much asking for it. My 2 cp.
Having been whacked by a crappy 'dm', I warn against the 'assassin in the night' bit. It is a poor storytelling device. Fiat actions take all vestiges of roleplaying out of the game. I would go with the chamberpot bit and have the PC barely escape. 'Powerful NPC'? Then have the NPC rake them over the coals with favors he can call in.
It tells a very powerful story: don't steal from NPCs that you aren't certain that you can take down. They wrote the check, the NPC will cash that check sooner or later.
RAW there is no "fiat" about getting killed in the middle of the night - there is opposed Stealth vs. Perception (albiet at a nasty penalty for the sleeping character) and a generally hard-to-make Fortitude saving throw. Nat 20s happen, although the crit may in its own right kill the character anyway. There are already chances to not be slain by fiat even if you're dumb enough as a player under these circumstances to take not even a very basic precaution or two.
I remember one of my first D&D adventures where we found a staff of defense while we were rather low (1-3) level
That was almost ten years ago, and still one of my best memories. :)
Assassin in the night isn't GM fiat unless the GM rules that the assassin automatically succeeds.
I would say go for the assassin, but give the character a chance. Have him wake up and roll out of the way at the last second
I'm not saying that they shouldn't get a chance (they should. They get a perception check, after all). But they shouldn't get a deus ex machina. That just sends the signal that they'll always be saved by the GM from any tight spots they put themselves in.
Having been whacked by a crappy 'dm', I warn against the 'assassin in the night' bit. It is a poor storytelling device. Fiat actions take all vestiges of roleplaying out of the game. I would go with the chamberpot bit and have the PC barely escape. 'Powerful NPC'? Then have the NPC rake them over the coals with favors he can call in.
It is not a poor storytelling device. It is not a a fiat action.
And NOT having their stupid actions and decisions have the logical consequences - THAT will take all vestiges of roleplaying out of the game.
They steal an artefact (yes, artefact. Not just magic item, but one of those legendary things you cannot even create unless you're a legend) and refuse to give it back. The guy they stole it from is powerful. This guy won't take it lying down. This is a roleplaying game. It's not a computer game, where the guy is flushed from the memory when you leave the map.
On the other hand, the chamberpot thing - THAT is fiat.
I played with a GM who didn't want to kill the characters. No matter what we did, we didn't die. No matter who we pissed off, they wouldn't retaliate.
It might have been fun, but not for the story. Because that stank. It was the most obvious railway ever used in a roleplaying game. I've played rail shooters that were less rigid.
We did it because our characters were fun. And it was fun to take this to ridiculous levels, like going to the biggest, epic-character-choked city in the multiverse and randomly killing people. No deaths.