I'm looking to find at least one movie that promotes conservative values and principles over liberal ideals.
Kinda like the opposite of Pleasantville and Footloose, movies where the whole point is that liberal living is better than conservative.
And I'm looking for a good example of the opposite.
Forrest Gump
Well what are conservative values and principles then?
That would help us think of some movies that had that in them.
(Wasn't Pleasantville about using white people to describe racism though?)
I'm not gonna touch the first part of that, since I'd just get all the conservatives pissed off at me with my snarky remarks.
As for Pleasantville, that was definitely one point they were trying to make. But they were also trying to make the point that people should live life instead of resisting change and clinging to structured sameness from every day. Also that no matter how stoic and unfeeling you seem, there are emotions and passion under it all, that every one of us is HUMAN, not a machine.
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Well what are conservative values and principles then?
Well, I don't want the Thread to get hijacked before I get a couple examples, but...
I dunno, I guess I see Conservatives as believing that society was better in the past when life was, according to them "simpler" and things like "the family" and "media" were more, um, "pure?"
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OK, I was going to post a few examples but then you put up this new definition of conservative that would fit better with almost any older black and white movie.
Mr. Deeds Goes to Town, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Sgt. York, Yankee Doodle Dandle, My Darling Clementine, High Noon, any John Wayne movie, etc. I could list most everything made before 1960 and argue it fits that model. And we haven't even mentioned the old Bible movies, such as The Greatest Story Every Told, The Ten Commandments and King of Kings.
Setting aside the themes about sexuality, you could argue Pleasantville is partly conservative because it shows how a society that limits the individual is bad.
I love movies and used to review them as part of my job, but I think the thread will get hijacked by people who point to the most extreme ends of political parties, claiming the fringe represents an entire group.
I dunno, I guess I see Conservatives as believing that society was better in the past when life was, according to them "simpler" and things like "the family" and "media" were more, um, "pure?"
I guess you'd have to find a movie that looks at the past through rose-colored glasses then, because things really were not more pure. You probably are better off looking for movies that focus on relatively timeless virtues like integrity. They're not inherently more conservative than liberal, but they tend to focus less on nuances and gray moralities, and that does tend to sit well with a conservative outlook. Maybe something with Henry Fonda?
Pretty much any military movie is a showcase of conservative values.
Wall Street is a showcase of conservative values. Money in pursuit of everything right up until it hits your friends and family, and then you punish them by turning on them and declaring it 'the right thing to do'. It's one man exploiting thousands of others (unions = liberals) right up until they realize what he's up to and shut him down.
Conservative culture tends to be emotionally repressed, logical, and kind of soulless...it's designed to have a clear chain of command and heirarchy, and these people obey those people. The people at the top have power and do whatever they want while trying to make sure those underneath them abide by a rigid code of conduct.
It's breaking those chains of command which are fun. Conservatives are boring almost by definition! Why would I want to see a boring movie? People who cling to traditional values that make no sense and ascribe to a narrow point of view look really silly when held up under the public eye. They look like the bad guys in comparison to others because you realize the moral codes they live by are indeed worse then others.
Oh, here's another one...go see Captain America. Conservative values are what the movie is MADE OF...and only with positive spins this time. Of course, 99% of the movie is about white military guys. The one Oriental is discriminated against until he declares himself from San Fransico, and the token Black guy is the smartest soldier in the movie...he can speak both French and German! Hell, the French soldier there can only speak French, and Europeans have a much better chance of being multilingual then blacks in 1940's America...
===Aelryinth
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Yeah, my "definition" is not so great and even if it were exactly what I wanted to articulate it'd still be subjective.
How 'bout I ask my question this way....
When we walk away from movies like Pleasantville and Footloose -- and even The Cider House Rules -- we get that the Director and Writer and such are trying to show that "liberal" ideals and lifestyle are not "bad" and in fact, are "good"?
What would be some movies where we walk away from and get the idea that the Director and Writer and such are trying to show that "conservative" values and norms are not "bad" and in fact, are "good"?
I'm not exactly an expert on movies. Don't know many.
Those movies are really about rebellion and freedom, not conservative and liberal values.
I think you're going to have to spell out what you mean by those values.
Conservative and liberal are, after all, political views and titles. When you throw those terms around, you're talking about broad swathes of a population.
I think you're looking for a conservative movie showing conservative values are superior to liberal ones, with neither being bad, and then another movie showing that liberal values are bad in reality...both of which would be against the prevailing themes.
==Aelryinth
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Those movies are really about rebellion and freedom, not conservative and liberal values.
Good point.
I guess that because I'm not only extreme Left but also extremely Anti-Right, I consider the freedom and good rebellion themes from those movies as liberal.
Hmmm, still doesn't help me find a movie to show opposite of Pleasantville.
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Conservatism is not wanting to return to the past! We may look to the past for certain ideals, such as the integrity of the family unit, but we certainly do not wish for a return of things like segregation...
We also look to return to a smaller government. One that does not just throw money at a problem and expect it to work.
Yes, George W. spent like there was no tomorrow, and for that I had issues. Just because a politician has an "R" in front of their name, does not mean he or she is conservative...
We also want our government to be non-intrusive. We don't want a Nanny-State! We can take care of ourselves if given the opportunity...
I could go on, but I've gotten pretty far off topic already...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
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Sorry to be a downer; I just wanted to get that on the record before the thread blew up. Please note, I'm not endorsing a party or political idea. I'm just going along with the theme because this could be fun.
I'm in my 30s, so I'll try to stick with movies made since the 1970s onward for this next bit.
Rambo: First Blood Part II and many of the other Rambo movies could fit. You have a U.S. soldier beating all odds to rescue other Americans and innocents in danger against a force that still is technically at war.
The Rocky movies show what one person who works hard and doesn't give up can accomplish. He also earns a great deal of money and respect in the process.
Red Dawn is the perfect conservative movie. This still is used to boost morale on some military bases.
Saving Private Ryan is a good example as well of the last "good war" that pretty much everyone can agree needed to be fought. It also shows a group risking its life for one person. "No greater love hath a man that he lay down his life for a friend."
Any adaption of Animal Farm, 1984, Fahrenheit 451 (such as Equilibrium) and other dystopian movies can fit with traditional conservative arguments for limited government.
Brazil could be used an example here.
There is an Atlas Shrugged movie which is planned as part of a series.
Invasion of the Body Snatchers and its variants also fight well, along with Manchurian Candidate and the like.
Waiting for Superman is about how public school systems fail students and the government system makes rather than solves problems.
Ghostbusters is a conservative movie. The villain is an EPA bureaucrat who wants to stop an innovative new business providing a service the people want.
The Lives of Others, Schindler's List and any other movie about oppression in East Germany or the Soviet Union could easily fit.
The Incredibles is about a villain who thought his special status (fan club president) allowed him extra privileges. The family of superheroes is forced to hide their special talents because of jealousy and a lawsuit-happy culture ran amok. The moral is that using superpowers is fair because everyone should live up to their potential regardless of how it impacts others or makes them feel.
300 is about a group of soldiers that goes out and defends their way of life from a different culture, showing that courage, honor and the death of good men is needed to protect society. The classic "freedom isn't free" statement.
Lord of the Rings is a classic good vs. evil fight where some of the heroes simply want to go home to the country, get married and have babies. Also, all the villains are a monoculture that seeks to destroy our natural way of life.
Braveheart, Passion of the Christ, The Patriot, We Were Soldiers and other Mel Gibson movies could also be viewed through a conservative lens.
In that vein, the Die Hard movies could be seen that way. One lone American fights off tons of terrorists led by a man with a foreign accent. That man often attempts to be "cultured" to cover his desire to hurt others, while the hero is a simple man with a heart of gold who just wants to do the right thing.
The Chronicles of Narnia movies are based on a series of Christian novels.
Gattaca is about one lone person's attempt to better a government system put into place to keep certain people down and out of special jobs for their own safety. Government limits to "help" people are a common theme.
You could argue Star Wars has some conservative themes (rebellion against repressive government, good vs. evil) but you might have trouble hand waving "The Force" out of the argument.
Master and Commander, Black Hawk Down, The Hurt Locker, United 93 and others also could be on a "conservative" list.
The Pursuit of Happiness is about a man who works very hard in America and succeeds due to his hard work, not other factors.
I've seen people make the argument The Dark Knight is a conservative movie. I'm not convinced, but you could debate a few points.
I came up with some of these off the top of my head and them ran a quick Google search to boost the list. I only used the first couple of links; there were plenty more to choose from.
Hope this helps!
Edit: I do agree with the other posters here. All political parties try to claim "good" attributes are part of their system with "bad" attributes are common to the others.
By itself, good vs. evil, honor and integrity aren't the traits of any one party or political system, but many parties try to lay sole claim to these attributes to build positive associations about their party members. It's a form of brand advertising. I tried to include movies that had more than just good vs. evil, but many of these titles could be debated back in forth in any film class lecture.
Except Ghostbusters. That's about the Book of Revelation for goodness sake. :)
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Pretend for a moment that I'm a teacher and I want to show two movies that have opposite themes, movies where "the moral of the story" conflict.
One "conservative" and one "liberal."
If you are talking Ayn Rand Conservative "The Incredibles".
If you are talking Falwell Conservative "The Passion of the Christ"Etc...
"Conservative" is a big tent. In some of my views I am very conservative, but most Republicans would consider me to be a liberal.
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I guess that because I'm not only extreme Left but also extremely Anti-Right, I consider the freedom and good rebellion themes from those movies as liberal.
What you need is a story where the protagonist is trying to mind his own business, raise his family right, tend his farmland, etc, and is attacked or oppressed by forces of anarchy.
The antagonists work best when they have no self-control; drug-fuelled crazies, hippies*, a spoiled aristocrat.
*yes, I know most of those who self-identify as hippies will say they are into peace and love, but I'm talking here about the Charles Manson types that cynically use the language of the counterculture to recruit idealistic minions/prey.
In these stories, the villains show short-term thinking, lack of impulse control, being driven by unthinking emotions, no better than animals.
'Me see. Me want. You give. Now. Why you no give? Me want. DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?'.
The heroes show long-term thinking, in both directions; respect for elders ('That's the foundation stone your grandfather laid, son...'), slow projects ('These seeds will make a fine harvest come Autumn...'), and in their methods (building traps to even the odds).
Gorky park.
I just want to say I find it funny that the conservative movies being suggested are about the radicals and liberals of the past.
Jesus Christ? Ultra hippy.
The American Revolution? A practice in "we the people" instead of "I the king"? Yeah that was very liberal and radical at the time.
Chronicles of Narnia? Yes morally very much based off of Christianity... however I would point out that Christianity (at least the stuff that Jesus said) is very liberal and radical still.
Braveheart? Not so far from the same themes as was in the Patriot and pagan to boot.
Star Wars could fall to either side -- rebellion against a repressive government is liberal and radical -- simply not conservative -- after all if you were conservative in such an era you would be supporting the established traditions and rules... not rebelling against them (This one is a bit more tongue in cheek honestly though -- after all rebellion simply doesn't sit evenly on one side or the other at any time).
I can easily see the Dark Knight being very much a Libertarian movie. The rich guy does right because it's right -- not because the government makes him... in fact it could be argued that he could do a lot more if the government would just get out of his way (represented by the police force).
Now that's not everything (and some of the other movies mentioned I've not seen and therefore can't comment on) but... I'm reminded of something I heard once:
"Change comes -- we can't stop it and we really shouldn't try to. Instead we should try to find champions in that change -- people of courage, integrity, conviction, compassion and love that we can point to as examples, so that when change comes again, the core of what we truly hold dear survives... even if it is in a form we don't immediately recognize, or in ways we might not agree with."
As you can see, this falls into a semantics trap pretty quickly.
Take this quote from above: Star Wars could fall to either side -- rebellion against a repressive government is liberal and radical -- simply not conservative -- after all if you were conservative in such an era you would be supporting the established traditions and rules... not rebelling against them (This one is a bit more tongue in cheek honestly though -- after all rebellion simply doesn't sit evenly on one side or the other at any time).
Well, we know from the prequels that the Emperor subverted the original government under a sweeping new set of powers Jar-Jar Binks ushered in. So, you could argue the rebellion was a return to the original intent of the established government.
A movie can be used to support most any argument if you work at it hard enough.
Agreed the problem with any side going "core values" is that honestly neither side practices them and the values involved are general and ambiguous and belong to all equally (or rather none at all if actions are to be judged).
Therefore a "core values" movie can't be simply "conservative" or "liberal" -- it's simply 'human'.
Afterall what 'core value' would a conservative claim that a liberal wouldn't claim too?
Courage? Compassion? Love (if it can be considered a moral -- iffy at best)? Charity? Drive?
These aren't moral values -- these are human qualities.
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I removed a couple posts that would have pretty rapidly derailed the thread.
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Abraham has hit upon something very important. The Terms "Liberal" and "Conservative" are not static and are infact dependent upon the time period and circumstance. An idea that is liberal or even radical in 1776 "rule by the people" is firmly conservative 200+ years later in the United States. However, that same idea would be considered "radical" in modern day Iran or North Korea or realistically in many parts of the world.
Thus a movie about liberal revolutionaries in 1776 can actually support modern day U.S. conservative values. This is a very difficult concept to teach students and something that many adults struggle with as well. Just because something was liberal 200 years ago does not mean it remains so.
I believe I can assume that the Poster is refering to modern day conservative values (which are difficult to agree upon) but generally include: small government; fiscal responsibility; personal responsibility; charity; and probably a lot more. Notice I did not include religion. Although religion has been mentioned many times in this thread, I have many more "religious" friends (especially Catholics and Jews) who consider themselve liberal despite their faith. So religion generally goes both ways.
What about movies? Unfortuantely many modern movies (last 50 years)either have no real slant or have a decidedly leftward slant because that is how modern Holywood sees things. I am sure that there are many classic movies that have a conservative viewpoint, however, lets face it, movies need drama and conservatism (work hard, behave correctly, be faitfull to your wife, etc.) does not lead to drama. Sorry I don't have any more specific examples, but 50's TV: Leave it to Beaver and stuff like that would fall into this catagory.
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Serenity and the entire Firefly series could be argued to be promoting conservative (classical liberal) values.
The Alliance is a strong, centralized government entity that regulates every aspect of the the economy and the lives of the citizens in the Core Worlds.
Mal Reynolds constantly makes statements throughout the show about how the overarching interference of that government makes people's lives more difficult.
In the movie, the Alliance creates the PAX agent and introduces it into the atmosphere of Miranda, with the goal of making people less violent and more obedient. The primary villain was a government operative who sought to retrieve River Tam, who was kidnapped by the Alliance to be trained as an assassin.
Nowhere in the storyline is a corporation or business the villain. The villains are all either government agents or mobsters/gangsters operating in a Black Market created by excessive government regulation.
who was kidnapped by the Alliance to be trained as an assassin.
Not true. Go back and watch the beginning of the movie again.
Also it wasn't that the Alliance introduced PAX to Miranda, Miranda was working on it (with Alliance consent) and introduced it themselves. The Alliance has been trying to cover it up ever since however since they had given consent and the result was the Reavers (not to mention the embarrassment of the experiment gone wrong and the way it went wrong for the other 95% of the population).
Also to say that business isn't a villain isn't quite true either -- capitalism regularly plays an unspoken villain in the series as the crew are constantly broke, lacking supplies, unable to afford repairs and in dire need of a means of making ends meet.
And the Captain intentionally avoids any chance at 'legal' work too -- so he's purposefully making things harder on himself and his crew by doing so (Inara points this out). He's a purposeful 'illegal worker' so to speak -- and many of the people he works for specifically desire to do 'evil' (wrong might be a better word -- but their wrong specifically hurts others on purpose for the sole purpose of self gain).
Honestly I would say the whole series (and movie) are much more 'human condition' movies that simply 'liberal' or 'conservative'.
After all it's not like those corporations or businesses are doing anything to try and bring the 'evil' government down -- or any of the citizens for that matter (indeed it's not even established that the entire government is as bad as Malcolm regularly suggests -- and if we are going to by his completely biased opinion alone... well he's no angel either).
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Desriden had some good suggestions
Dirty Harry
Gran Torino
Iron Man/Iron Man 2
The Dark Knight
Black Hawk Down
Casablanca
Cinderella Man
High Noon/Outland
Blade Runner
The Thing (1982)
Pretty much any movie where the hero(es) go at it alone or when they do not cave to the status quo or the crowd (and also isn't a wishy-washy scumbag).
Generally any movie that professes absolute values vs. moral relativism.
Also movies that profess pro-family values, pro-country (vs. nationalism), pro-military and service to community (not forced), and pro-personal freedom vs. the demands of the State could be considered conservative. Self-sacrifice (free will) vs. shared sacrifice (forced) are also recurring conservative themes and values.
Honestly Auxmaulous it's like you don't read threads.
Pro-family? Please -- tell me that after you control the divorce rate among conservatives. Do not cave to the status quo? Really? Patriot act anyone? With us or against us? Hold the line against the minority party? None of that remind you of anything?
Pro-personal vs state could easily be the liberals too -- Martin Luther King Jr for an easy example. Also GAY MARRIAGE == PERSONAL CHOICE which is being denied by the conservatives.
Absolute values? Yeah that's why we should continue forgiving people for their 'wide stance' or 'weakness' right? No double standard at all there.
Pro-military... well okay I'll grant that -- conservatives do love their wars and bombing other countries for the weakest of reasons (BANDWAGON -- "Iraq has WMDs" -- no 'caving' there right?).
I'll agree with Iron Man(and 2) as well as Dark Knight.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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Honestly, the only one I can think of that fits your criteria (and is relatively recent) is the Other Side of Heaven.
It's a story about a Mormon missionary in Tonga. That's about it.
Honestly, I think you're going to have to delve into Christian film-making if you want to find others. I don't watch that genre, but good luck!
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Pro-family? Please -- tell me that after you control the divorce rate among conservatives. Do not cave to the status quo? Really? Patriot act anyone? With us or against us?
I can give two shits about the divorce rate among Christians. The promotion of family focused values provided by the family (traditional, single parent, etc) vs. those promoted by State are the issue. The left wants the State to raise their children, the right doesn't.
Last I checked the democrats overwhelmingly supported the patriot act when it was first offered up and even the current liberal POTUS has kept those powers intact (and has even extended that act), so spare me the sermon.
Pro-personal vs state could easily be the liberals too -- Martin Luther King Jr for an easy example. Also GAY MARRIAGE == PERSONAL CHOICE which is being denied by the conservatives.
No, by today’s standards he would be considered a conservative Republican who opposed the Dixiecrat standards. Democrats are the ones who passed prop 8 in California (exit polls 82% Repub, 64% Dem, 52% Independent) - a solid blue state.
Absolute values? Yeah that's why we should continue forgiving people for their 'wide stance' or 'weakness' right? No double standard at all there.
I'm not getting this - are you talking about the "wide stance toe tapper"? Because if you are then, no - no forgiveness. I personally would feed that guy to the sharks. Forgiveness is a Christian/faith value, I’m not a Christian.
Anyway, I’m not going to get into a lib vs. conservative fight on a lib controlled board. Just wanted to offer up the op some movie suggestions.
I'm looking to find at least one movie that promotes conservative values and principles over liberal ideals.
Kinda like the opposite of Pleasantville and Footloose, movies where the whole point is that liberal living is better than conservative.
And I'm looking for a good example of the opposite.
So you want a movie where everyones goes away going "Man, I really think we shouldn't be required to help our fellow man." "Yeah, down with the government!"
I hear Sarah Palin has a movie out about how awesome she is.
@ W E Ray
Part of your difficulty may be a ripple effect from the whole Jesse Helms "lets remove funding to the NEA because of Robert Maplethorp's work" thing from the 80's. This behavior likely still sends artists into the "liberal" sphere meaning that a "conservative" presentation may be hard to come by.
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How to make a conservative movie: Take one of the listed "liberal" movies and remove the part where someone learns a lesson.
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I am surprised how many folks are saying "High Noon" is a conservative movie. You do realize conservatives hated the film at the time of its release? John Wayne was quite vocal about how it was bad for society and anti-American. Almost everyone involved in making the film was blacklisted as a "commi."
I am surprised how many folks are saying "High Noon" is a conservative movie. You do realize conservatives hated the film at the time of its release? John Wayne was quite vocal about how it was bad for society and anti-American. Almost everyone involved in making the film was blacklisted as a "commi."
But only because the movie was an allegory for blacklisting and they didn't like being called out. Conservative anti-commies (including the right-wing messiah, Reagan) liked it - probably because the USSR openly denounced it.
Pro-personal vs state could easily be the liberals too -- Martin Luther King Jr for an easy example. Also GAY MARRIAGE == PERSONAL CHOICE which is being denied by the conservatives.No, by today’s standards he would be considered a conservative Republican who opposed the Dixiecrat standards. Democrats are the ones who passed prop 8 in California (exit polls 82% Repub, 64% Dem, 52% Independent) - a solid blue state.
By today's standards, MLK is just as much of a radical liberal as he was in the 60s.
Contrary to today's sanitized image of him, he was not just involved in African American civil rights, but in economic and social justice work. When he was shot he was supporting a Memphis Sanitation workers strike.Unless you think unions are now a conservative issue?
Anyway, I’m not going to get into a lib vs. conservative fight on a lib controlled board. Just wanted to offer up the op some movie suggestions.
I'm also amused by the conservative persecution complex. Lib controlled board? Seriously?
I haven't read or watched any of MLK's speeches lately, but as I recall he sounded extremely conservative, by our standards. I can't imagine many public/political figures nowadays other than Ralph Reed-Gary Bauer-Alan Keyes types talking about judging people by the content of their character.
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I am surprised how many folks are saying "High Noon" is a conservative movie. You do realize conservatives hated the film at the time of its release? John Wayne was quite vocal about how it was bad for society and anti-American. Almost everyone involved in making the film was blacklisted as a "commi."But only because the movie was an allegory for blacklisting and they didn't like being called out. Conservative anti-commies (including the right-wing messiah, Reagan) liked it - probably because the USSR openly denounced it.
Good points. I guess it comes back to that argument that today's conservative was an ultra liberal 200 years ago.
I do think its funny that its a very popular film with American presidents. Do they perhaps think the American people are cowards leaving the "sheriff" to go all alone against the lawless bandits?