Someone linked to some Ultimate Combat material PFSRD was posting but now all you see is this:
How does viewing the page delay their work on it? I think it seems rather overdramatic to post that.
They have an agreement with Paizo to not post their stuff until 2 weeks after the products release.
By linking to the work area (which is public-ally viewable) they can't hold up their end of the agreement, which puts the wonderful community resource to be shut down by Paizo, or any other 3PP.
Due to links being posted on various sites to our work area we have been forced to move the Ultimate Combat content off-site. This adds an extra couple of steps to our process. The normal post delay of "street +2 weeks" will likely be longer than that now. We have no specific idea how much longer it will be but at a minimum I am expecting 1-2 weeks.
We had been told previously by Google that a new feature was coming very soon that would allow us to lock down specific sections of the site so that our work areas would not be publicly viewable. Unfortunately that feature has not appeared yet. We had hoped people wouldn't link to the content after we asked them not to last time.
Anyway, just letting folks know that we're working on Ultimate Combat now, but at the same time we just received Tome of Horrors Complete, direct from Frog God Games, and we're working on that too.
By the way, we strongly recommend both Tome of Horrors Complete, and ANYTHING else you can get from Frog God Games. They're an "above and beyond" group who 100% supports the open gaming movement and deserve your business greatly. Chuck and the crew went beyond all call of duty to personally send us a PDF formatted best for our processes to accelerate the work we have to do. That is not necessary, but appreciated greatly.
Thanks to Chuck and everyone else at FGG!
Nope. They aren't.
For what it's worth, I don't think that the delay is punishment, just reality at this point.
Ah, I see. So anything Paizo releases you cannot show content on the "crunch" material in it for 2 weeks? I thought it was Open Content once released? Or is there a clause somewhere?
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Ah, I see. So anything Paizo releases you cannot show content on the "crunch" material in it for 2 weeks? I thought it was Open Content once released? Or is there a clause somewhere?
It is open content, but that doesn't mean they have to throw everything on the PFSRD the moment it's released.
It's a courtesy thing, giving that extra time for sale BEFORE most of the material goes on-line for free. Doing this ensure extra good will and shows respect for the hard work that Paizo puts into its products, as well as for their willingness to make so much open content and work with their fans.
Really, 2 weeks after the book's release isn't that long, especially when it's free. If someone wants it sooner they can buy the pdf. But why frustrate Paizo or abuse their willingness to allow things to be open content by posting the material for free the moment the book is available for purchase? The end result would be Paizo reconsidering their open content policy and possibly how they deal with things like the pfsrd. Why ruin a good thing because some people are impatient?
1) The raw rips from the PDF have not been completely vetted for Product Identity, like Golarion gods, and thus may not be in compliance with the OGL.
2) The raw rips from the PDF may not have correct Section 15 data put up yet, and thus may not be in compliance with the OGL.
3) PFSRD does the delay as a courtesy to the publishers. In theory, a site could release material as quickly as they could cover 1 and 2, but that would likely result in bad blood.
3) PFSRD does the delay as a courtesy to the publishers. In theory, a site could release material as quickly as they could cover 1 and 2, but that would likely result in bad blood.I totally get the courtesy, and I like pfsrd20 for doing it, but people keep using the word "Agreement", which implies "I wont do X if you dont do Y" or some variation of Y. I wonder what Y is, in this case.
"If you won't give us 2 weeks, we won't publish the next books under the OGL"
I totally get the courtesy, and I like pfsrd20 for doing it, but people keep using the word "Agreement", which implies "I wont do X if you dont do Y" or some variation of Y. I wonder what Y is, in this case.
No, you can have an agreement that doesn't have two-way conditions. If you ask me to hold a door open for you and I agree, the door gets held and that's the end of the situation. No consequences, no threats, just a courteous deed done because a favor was asked.
I'll repeat that last sentence because it applies to this situation in exactly the same way. No consequences, no threats, just a courteous deed done because a favor was asked.
Ah, I see. So anything Paizo releases you cannot show content on the "crunch" material in it for 2 weeks? I thought it was Open Content once released? Or is there a clause somewhere?
Cannot is not equal to will not.
Legally there's nothing preventing immediate posting of OGL material (and OGL material only, of course). That said, it is (amongst other things) a show of support to grant Paizo (and 3rd-party publishers) some reasonable period during which they can remain the sole supplier of the material. The vast majority of sales happen in the first short time after product release. Undermining those sales by allowing people to gain free access to that OGL material during that crucial period can be very hurtful to the publisher. If we want Paizo and the 3pp to continue to do what they do, some reasonable accommodation needs be made to allow them their revenue window unmolested.
Is it 7am Thursday yet? No. Crap. Can't buy the PDF yet.
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The tabletop PG community is a pretty small one.
Primarily, it's made up of fans of tabletop RPGs.
Most fans of tabletop RPGs want to see the publishers of said RPGs do well, so they will continue to support the hobby said fans enjoy.
As such, since d20PFSRD is run by RPG fans, I fail to see why they would do something that would harm the publishers who support the hobby the enjoy.
It's called being courteous and ensuring the publishers keep publishing.
/From a publisher who likes and supports d20PFSRD and their very considerate polices.
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Sorry for not chiming in earlier folks, I've been packing for Gencon etc.
All of the above is basically correct. There is no "formal" or "binding" agreement between us and anyone. We were asked WAYYYY BACK in PFRPG Beta days to delay posting the new content until its been available from Paizo for at least 2 weeks. Given that Paizo basically releases everything they do to the community either via the OGL or the Community Use Policy, there really is and was no reasonable way we could refuse. It was, and is, the least we could do after all. We all deeply appreciate the commitment Paizo (and select 3pp) show to the open gaming concepts and so we honor that request even today. Some publishers give us their content directly and specifically ask us to post it as soon as possible, some ask us to wait a couple of weeks, others ask for a bit longer. Really, who can refuse such requests? Yes, of course we could post their content immediately upon obtaining it, but really, does that serve the greater community at large if the net result is the publisher either a) goes out of business or b) says "screw this ogl idea" and stops releasing their stuff as open content?
Anyway, we moved the content elsewhere and the extra steps necessary to getting it finalized will introduce some delays. That's the fact of the matter, its not punishment, its simply that it will take us longer to work with the content given the extra steps necessary.
For whatever its worth, our guy at Google says that the new security features are in the final testing stages and could be final in the next couple of weeks. We're hoping so, but it won't be in time to make any difference for the current big-a$$ books we're working on.
So, sorry to be going through this again and for now I'll say "SEE YOU AT GENCON!"
:D
For any of you who are confused, this is basically what is going on with the whole "2+ week delay on OGL material" thing.
In the era of 3.5, Wizards of the Coast did not leave much open in the OGL for 3rd Party Publishers; the core rulebooks, Unearthed Arcana, and the Expanded Psionics Handbook were about it. This was annoying because it meant that you had to be wary of what you posted online or wrote about in books, because putting one wrong word could make you liable for being sued by Wizards of the Coast.
When Paizo made Pathfinder, they declared that they were going to make everything crunch-related under the OGL, so 3rd Party Publishers could expand upon their work without hassle and players could publish their own ideas using the game's rules without worry. Paizo employed the greatest of all RPG techniques; you WANT to have a community that is willing to expand on what you do; imitation is the highest form of flattery and even if people do profit off of your ruleset, nine products out of ten will require your rules anyway in order to be effective.
As much business sense as this makes, we (being the community as a whole, and not just 3rd Party publishers and websites) do not want to have to force Paizo into the sticky situation of having to make ANY of their crunch become excluded from the OGL. This could, in theory, happen if Paizo did not make enough sales on hardcovers such as Ultimate Combat. As a sign of good faith, the Pathfinder SRD with holds such debuts in order to assure Paizo enough time to make a few good sales on its newer products.
Like someone else said, there's no mutual agreement involved. One of the Technical Directors probably just asked the gents over at PSRD nicely, and being good members of the community, they obliged with Paizo's request. If they even had to request it; they may just be sensible people right off the bat for all I know.