In the game I currently play in the DM has ruled in the worst possible way against my Summoner every time a ruling has been called for, which is often, because a person in the game has personal issues against me.
As the game stands, my Eidolon has 10 points of ability damage, ghoul rot, and a broken leg so that it can only move at half of its base speed.
Question 1: What do you do if the Eidolon takes ability damage?
We were playing in a game and the Summoner's Eidolon took around 10 points of ability damage. As the Eidolon does not heal naturally, he technically can't regain these ability score points back. Does he re-heal these when he is sent back to his plane? Or does he simply not heal until the group learns lesser restoration?
(The current ruling is that it doesn't heal ability damage unless I get restoration cast upon the eidolon.)
Question 2: As haste works only with held weapons, it seems like a natural attack Eidolon will not receive the extra attack that the spell would normally allow. Does he get that extra attack if attacking with only held weapons?
(The reason this question must be asked is that there has been a lot of nit picking with regard to the summoner and the way older books and spells are worded.)
(The current ruling is that Haste doesn't affect natural attacks.)
Question 3: Does the Eidolon get full hit points at level 1?
I have heard arguments that the Eidolon is an NPC with no character levels so he does not get full hit points, but the Eidolon clearly does go up in levels the same way a player character would. So which is it?
(The current ruling is that the Eidolon does not get full HP at first level because he is a summoned creature.)
Question 4: Does Augment Summoning work on the spell like ability to summon creatures and/or the Eidolon?
This seems like a no brainer but it has come up many times. Most of the internet community agrees that Augment Summoning works on the SLA summoned monsters, but there is a massive disagreement about the Eidolon.
Those who argue for the Eidolon getting the Augment Summoning ability argue that the power is derived from the same pool. (You can't have an SLA summoned creature out at the same time as the Eidolon) So it seems strange that Augment Summoning would affect only part of the creatures being summoned from that pool of power. The other aspect is that everyone seems to agree that if you use the level 2 spell "Summon Eidolon" the Eidolon receives the benefit of Augment Summoning. One of the first lines in this spell states:
"Treat this as if you had summoned your eidolon normally, except that it only remains with you for the duration of this spell."
If you have summoned the Eidolon normally, then it was by the ritual and he wouldn't get the benefit.
To receive the benefit if he is summoned for a few minutes by the spell, but not if he is summoned normally by the 1 minute ritual seems like splitting hairs.
(The current ruling is that despite being a summoned creature, the Eidolon will not benefit from augment summoning, and because Augment summoning affects spells and not spell like abilities, my summoned creatures won't benefit either, unless I learn summon spells for the summoner to cast.)
Question 5: How does disease affect the Eidolon?
What if the Eidolon was affected by Ghoul Rot? This came up in a gaming session and we didn't know how to deal with it, does he rot away in his home plane? Does he need to get cured too? Is the disease simply cured when he goes back to his home plane?
(The current ruling is that the Eidolon can be infected, but can't heal from the disease, because it doesn't heal naturally. I will have a ghoul eidolon who attacks the party whenever it is summoned within 3 sessions.)
Question 6:
Life link reads as follows.
Life Link (Su)
Starting at 1st level, a summoner forms a close bond with his eidolon. Whenever the eidolon takes enough damage to send it back to its home plane, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of hit points. Each hit point sacrificed in this way prevents 1 point of damage done to the eidolon. This can prevent the eidolon from being sent back to its home plane.
The Eidolon gets sent back to its plane when it dies (negative constitution score) so around -13 or so.
Is this ability meant to keep the Eidolon alive so that you can run over to it and heal it, bringing it back to consciousness?
Or
Is this ability meant to be used at any time to allow the Eidolon to remain conscious and fighting?
(The current ruling is that I can only use this ability to keep the Eidolon from dieing, aka I can only use this ability if the eidolon is unconscious, I am tempted to use this ability to kill off the character and make a druid.)
Question 7: If the eidolon has the rend ability, and has landed 4 claw attacks, can he do the rend ability twice?
I have been having a large argument about this, my side has been, if you hit with 4 claw attacks, you should be able to rend twice, because the counter should reset after the second claw has hit.
The person arguing with me has the argument, "That's too strong and is unbalanced, so you shouldn't be able to do it twice in one round, no matter how many claw attacks you land."
Any thoughts?
(The current ruling is that no matter how many times I land a claw attack I can only rend once per round.")
Thanks for your time.
* Haste does not provide extra natural attacks, because natural attacks don't get iteratives. The other bonuses it grants are still very useful.
* By the wording, you can use Life Link any time a single blow would knock an Eidolon down to the -13 HP which would banish it.
* Rend is hard to say. Here's what I can tell you: the eidolon's Rend ability is worded slightly differently than the one in the Bestiary glossary.
Eidolon--"Whenever the eidolon makes two successful claw attacks against the same target in 1 round, its claws latch onto the flesh and deal extra damage."
Bestiary--"If it hits with two or more natural attacks in one round..."
Question 1: What do you do if the Eidolon takes ability damage?
In my opinion, this is an oversight by the developers. That said, as written an eidolon cannot heal ability damage on its own.
Question 2: As haste works only with held weapons, it seems like a natural attack Eidolon will not receive the extra attack that the spell would normally allow. Does he get that extra attack if attacking with only held weapons?
Haste does not grant additional natural attacks.
Question 3: Does the Eidolon get full hit points at level 1?
No, it does not; the current ruling is correct.
Question 4: Does Augment Summoning work on the spell like ability to summon creatures and/or the Eidolon?
The developers have clarified via the boards that Augment Summoning can be used with the class' summon monster spell-like ability. That said, until the other situations are addressed they remain to be interpreted by your GM.
Question 6:
As written, it can only be used in reaction to damage that would cause the eidolon to return to its home plane. If it was unconscious, you or someone else would need to heal it to get it back in the fight.
Question 7: If the eidolon has the rend ability, and has landed 4 claw attacks, can he do the rend ability twice?
You cannot use rend a second time in the same turn in this way. Aside from the fact that it is campy, exploitative, and overpowered, the ability only functions after two attacks strike home. It does not function again if two additional attacks also succeed.
In this instance, it's important to remember that the attacks in a full round action are not necessarily separate; all attacks are made in a brief interval of time, nearly instantaneously, despite being rolled one after another. Despite how many claws latch onto the target, that target is only going to be rent once.
Question 5: How does disease affect the Eidolon?
Also an oversight, I think, but in general saving against disease is not usually considered healing, and even an eidolon stands a chance of meeting the cure conditions.
Now, ghoul fever only reanimates humanoids, which your eidolon is not. Even if it fails all its saves and "dies" due to the ability damage, you would then be able to resummon it the next day with at least one Con, as it needs to be alive to be summoned. Your GM may rule that the disease persists through the creature's death, but it would simply continue to die and be sent back home until it either met the cure condition or was cured by other means.
Augment Summoning does not work on the Eidolon, but it does work on the Summon Monsters ability. If it did, the feat Summoner's Call from the APG would be useless.
Using the spell to summon your Eidolon means it gets the bonus from Augment Summon (AFAIK).
Designate pairs of Claw attacks. Whenever pairs both hit, they get Rend. The player seriously thinks that's overpowered? God have mercy on his soul when he sees Pounce. I agree with Revan that it's a weird discrepancy between the Bestiary and the eidolon's text, but that's how I would rule it.
Restoration doesn't work on an eidolon. Thank god Summoners get Restore Eidolon which SPECIFICALLY works on Eidolons only. Use that spell. If the DM says no, just flat ask him why he hates your character.
By the way, what's the class of the guy who is nitpicking?
Augment Summoning does not work on the Eidolon, but it does work on the Summon Monsters ability. If it did, the feat Summoner's Call from the APG would be useless.
Using the spell to summon your Eidolon means it gets the bonus from Augment Summon (AFAIK).
Designate pairs of Claw attacks. Whenever pairs both hit, they get Rend. The player seriously thinks that's overpowered? God have mercy on his soul when he sees Pounce. I agree with Revan that it's a weird discrepancy between the Bestiary and the eidolon's text, but that's how I would rule it.
Restoration doesn't work on an eidolon. Thank god Summoners get Restore Eidolon which SPECIFICALLY works on Eidolons only. Use that spell. If the DM says no, just flat ask him why he hates your character.
By the way, what's the class of the guy who is nitpicking?
The nitpicker is a min/maxed Witch.
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The nitpicker is a min/maxed Witch.Augment Summoning does not work on the Eidolon, but it does work on the Summon Monsters ability. If it did, the feat Summoner's Call from the APG would be useless.
Using the spell to summon your Eidolon means it gets the bonus from Augment Summon (AFAIK).
Designate pairs of Claw attacks. Whenever pairs both hit, they get Rend. The player seriously thinks that's overpowered? God have mercy on his soul when he sees Pounce. I agree with Revan that it's a weird discrepancy between the Bestiary and the eidolon's text, but that's how I would rule it.
Restoration doesn't work on an eidolon. Thank god Summoners get Restore Eidolon which SPECIFICALLY works on Eidolons only. Use that spell. If the DM says no, just flat ask him why he hates your character.
By the way, what's the class of the guy who is nitpicking?
Hahaha, a guy playing what is arguably the most powerful class in the game is complaining about the eidolon? That's rich :)
I mean this in the best of intentions, and not to sound like a jerk.
Your problem here has nothing to do with the Summoner or Big E or whatever. Your problem is this other player. Whatever class you pick it sounds like this guy is your issue not the rules or whatnot. You need to sit down with this guy- and with the DM also, if necessary- and get his panties unknotted so you can start enjoying your game again.
You can come to the boards and get whatever rulings you want but you said it in your post yourself- this other guy is the problem. You need to fix -that problem- and if you can't then you need to bow out of the group and find one without a twit in it.
Just my .02.
-S
I mean this in the best of intentions, and not to sound like a jerk.
Your problem here has nothing to do with the Summoner or Big E or whatever. Your problem is this other player. Whatever class you pick it sounds like this guy is your issue not the rules or whatnot. You need to sit down with this guy- and with the DM also, if necessary- and get his panties unknotted so you can start enjoying your game again.
You can come to the boards and get whatever rulings you want but you said it in your post yourself- this other guy is the problem. You need to fix -that problem- and if you can't then you need to bow out of the group and find one without a twit in it.
Just my .02.
-S
Sadly this is probably true. However, this is sort of like being in the desert, you can either drink brown water, or no water at all.
If nothing else I can ham it up, and have a good time that way. They don't want to see the Druid that I plan to make.
I have a Eidolon question... Is there any way to speed up the 10 round summoning time? Specifically for the synthesist, it sorta ruins the fun "hulk out" rpg elements if it takes 10 rounds so I have to walk around hulked out at all times.
Thanks,
-Mike
You could use the level 2 spell Summon Eidolon. However, if anything had a protection spell cast on it you will be boned.
Haste does work with natural attacks by the way.
Haste does work with natural attacks by the way.
When/where was that changed?
2: Haste works with natural attacks as well. Clay Golem is a nice example for you there.
It does not, at least not as written. The spell is very specific, stating that hasted creatures gain an additional attack during a full-attack action "... with any weapon he is holding." This aspect of the spell does not function when a hasted creature only possesses natural attacks.
A standard clay golem would benefit from the spell's other effects, but would not gain an additional natural attack as a result of the spell.
2: Haste works with natural attacks as well. Clay Golem is a nice example for you there.It does not, at least not as written. The spell is very specific, stating that hasted creatures gain an additional attack during a full-attack action "... with any weapon he is holding." This aspect of the spell does not function when a hasted creature only possesses natural attacks.
A standard clay golem would benefit from the spell's other effects, but would not gain an additional natural attack as a result of the spell.
AS written it does not, but RAI it does. Link
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2: Haste works with natural attacks as well. Clay Golem is a nice example for you there.It does not, at least not as written. The spell is very specific, stating that hasted creatures gain an additional attack during a full-attack action "... with any weapon he is holding." This aspect of the spell does not function when a hasted creature only possesses natural attacks.
A standard clay golem would benefit from the spell's other effects, but would not gain an additional natural attack as a result of the spell.
James Jacobs seems to think it does.
Wraithstrike ninja'd me :)
2: Haste works with natural attacks as well. Clay Golem is a nice example for you there.It does not, at least not as written. The spell is very specific, stating that hasted creatures gain an additional attack during a full-attack action "... with any weapon he is holding." This aspect of the spell does not function when a hasted creature only possesses natural attacks.
A standard clay golem would benefit from the spell's other effects, but would not gain an additional natural attack as a result of the spell.
James Jacobs has clarified that Haste works with melee, ranged and natural weapons.
EDIT: triple ninja'd
AS written it does not, but RAI it does. Link
Thank you, that's the sort of thing I was looking for. Figured such a post existed, but if you don't know exactly what you're trying to find, locating a single, specific post on the boards can be nearly impossible at times.
6: No, its meant to prevent him from being banned from being called for a day. He can be dropped.. but then you can dismiss him and he won't bleed out until you bring him back.
I don't doubt that the Eidolon can be dropped, but I think that at the very least you are wrong on this point, if for no other reason than there is a level 2 spell called Summon Eidolon which gets around the once daily ban of the Eidolon upon death.
If you go by the old summon creature rules where they are sent back upon hitting 0 HP, then this is an ability to keep the Eidolon fighting and in the game. Which is what the Life link ability was originally written for, to keep him around and fighting. But when mixing new mechanics and old wording things get really messed up. This also means that sure as the summoner you can soak a big hit to keep your Eidolon in play and awake, but the next little tap will put him out, and that hardly makes sense. Then again that is just my view on it.
You can use it when the Eidolon is conscious--but the blow must deal enough damage to take it from conscious to its negative Constitution score in the one hit.
Diehard helps with the eidolon being an unconscious lump on the battlefield, but it sucks up 2 feats. The summoner can alternatively use diehard to help keep the eidolon around, still sucks up 2 more feats.
I recall the consensus on Eidolon Rend was it had no limit due to the fact that it, in it's specific mention trumped the general mention by saying "every time the eidolon hits with two claw attacks" followed by no limiter in it's description. The limit to the number of natural attacks an eidolon could perform, being the ceiling on the ability. Since there is no FAQ mention and specific > general, doesn't that mean by RAW you get to rend multiple times a round?
AS written it does not, but RAI it does. LinkThank you, that's the sort of thing I was looking for. Figured such a post existed, but if you don't know exactly what you're trying to find, locating a single, specific post on the boards can be nearly impossible at times.