That's what I said. And did. Timing couldn't be worse, though, as December is traditionally a very painful experience for my wallet. Oh well, if I steer clear of the various Warhammer 40,000 RPGs and the new Call of Cthulhu goodness, I should be okay.
I guess this is the big announcement right before Gen Con that was hinted at? :)
I will first say, I am SO ecstatic in seeing the Pathfinder prepainted mini line come to fruition.
Although, I am a bit surprised on the price. The random aspect has never bothered me, and I pretty much expected it if the mini line came to pass (which of course it did). However, I guess I expected more product for a booster box. Wasn’t the DDM line, at it’s most expensive days, 6 minis for $12.99 for a randomized booster? I suppose I was just hoping for more than one medium/large mini per booster box for the established price.
That being said, I see myself getting sucked into the line, just like I did with DDM, especially if the paint quality is as good as been said. (Although not a fan of the example mini on the press release, hope it gets to be more detailed than that).
If it has been determined, how many sets will release per year? I know the RotRL set has been announced for June, is that going to be standard time between sets, around every 6 months (twice a year)?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Although, I am a bit surprised on the price. The random aspect has never bothered me, and I pretty much expected it if the mini line came to pass (which of course it did). However, I guess I expected more product for a booster box. Wasn’t the DDM line, at it’s most expensive days, 6 minis for $12.99 for a randomized booster? I suppose I was just hoping for more than one medium/large mini per booster box for the established price.
Don't forget, plastic minis are made from... oil. That could impact the price.
Drill baby Drill! Daddy needs a new blue dragon!
(Other aside, is anyone else amused that the chase dragon is a (possibly) huge black dragon? The one dragon that WotC did with a rider, but we didnt' have a riderless huge?)
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
When we first started selling D&D singles, we made up a bunch of themed "critter packs," but keeping them stocked ended up being too much effort to keep up. While the idea is conceptually great, it's probably just too labor-intensive to justify.Here's an idea for the future (assuming that you'll be opening cases yourselves to sell singles...):
Put together the following with a slight discount over purchasing them separately. Include the following:
- A Pathfinder Module
- A couple of corresponding Flip-maps or Map Packs
- Enough corresponding minis to run the module
Still a good idea for the secondary market.
That and the common dupes you don't want make great prizes for little kids.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
4 bucks for a plastic mini that you don't know what it is? Pass, not really happy with move to go random with that price.
Are they the same disribution? Or are they going to be common, uncommon, rare like the DnD minis were?
Since you doing a Rise of The Runelords mini set, I think maybe a re issue of Rise of Runelords with Pathfinder rules come out, too?
PLEASE, Paizo, can you get all of your mini sets on amazon.com? I buy as many books as I can directly from your store, but minis are WAY more expensive, and amazon is always has good deals on minis. Sorry to sound cheap... but please consider this. For our wallets :)
|
PLEASE, Paizo, can you get all of your mini sets on amazon.com? I buy as many books as I can directly from your store, but minis are WAY more expensive, and amazon is always has good deals on minis. Sorry to sound cheap... but please consider this. For our wallets :)
this is up to amazon to order them from their distributor, not up to paizo
1) Yes.
2) Yes.
Wait wait wait. These boosters are only going to have 1-4 miniatures each, so if I buy a case, I'm going to have to open, what, 30 booster boxes? Please make them easily opened! :)
At the most, you are going to have 2 minis (small) in a booster box. And a case has 64 Standard boosters and 12 Large boosters.
Heroes & Monsters Standard Boosters contain 1 Medium or 2 Small miniatures.
Heroes & Monsters Large Boosters contain 1 Large miniature.
Heroes & Monsters Bricks contain 16 Standard Boosters and 3 Large Boosters.
Heroes & Monsters Cases contain 4 Bricks (64 Standard Boosters and 12 Large Boosters).
Honestly it's cheaper to buy Warhammer 40k minis -- and yes that is an insult.Uh, you bought 40K minis lately? Mastercast resins?
Yeah, I just clicked around GW's Website--found stuff like this single IG officer for $10.75--holy crap! (And that one's still metal, not the new resin). I'm sure in some of the army boxes, per unit the models are cheaper--but you can see in the link that a boxset including this fellow adds up to about $3.90 a miniature--not much cheaper than the $3.99 for the prepainted (and a brick of singles will be cheaper per unit).
FWIW---around $4 is about how much Reaper charges for their non-random medium sized pre-painted miniatures. Some of them, especially monsters, are more expensive.
Reaper's normal line of metal minis cost more for about the same size; Reaper's lead based P-65 minis are about the same price (most "hero" figurines are $3.99; monsters cost more).
Not an argument for or against Paizo/Wiz-Kids' pricing, just showing some comparisons. Feel free to add.
As someone noted, plastic is a petroleum product. And white metal--is in part made from tin, the price of which has also gone up over the last decade (the P-65 minis are a little cheaper than others--but not by much--because they substitute in some lead). Minis just aren't going to get cheap, unless you're trading second hand.
Honestly it's cheaper to buy Warhammer 40k minis -- and yes that is an insult.Uh, you bought 40K minis lately? Mastercast resins?Yeah, I just clicked around GW's Website--found stuff like this single IG officer for $10.75--holy crap! (And that one's still metal, not the new resin). I'm sure in some of the army boxes, per unit the models are cheaper--but you can see in the link that a boxset including this fellow adds up to about $3.90 a miniature--not much cheaper than the $3.99 for the prepainted (and a brick of singles will be cheaper per unit).
FWIW---around $4 is about how much Reaper charges for their non-random medium sized pre-painted miniatures. Some of them, especially monsters, are more expensive.
Reaper's normal line of metal minis cost more for about the same size; Reaper's lead based P-65 minis are about the same price (most "hero" figurines are $3.99; monsters cost more).
Not an argument for or against Paizo/Wiz-Kids' pricing, just showing some comparisons. Feel free to add.
As someone noted, plastic is a petroleum product. And white metal--is in part made from tin, the price of which has also gone up over the last decade (the P-65 minis are a little cheaper than others--but not by much--because they substitute in some lead). Minis just aren't going to get cheap, unless you're trading second hand.
I think GW basic 10-man boxes average out to ~3/mini, though they seem to be priced based off of in game point cost more than material cost. And these are unassembled and unpainted (though customizable).
I really like the look of these minis and think the price point is about right. I will probably go over them with a wash to bring out the details a little more though.
|
The first set might be tough, but after that you should be able to judge the print runs on types of minis. Lot of orcs, skels, etc. less on the uniques.The problem isn't being able to predict sales, it's being able to justify the costs of a low-volume product.
Manufacturing costs are tied strongly to volume, because, after all, the mold costs exactly same whether you make 100 figures or 10000 from it. And since the mold is one of the most expensive parts of the process, you have to spread that cost out over a large number of figures. Think of it this way:
I want to make two minis. One of them will sell 10,000 copies*. The other one, just 1000 copies*. For each, the sculpt and mold costs the same amount of money—let's say $2000*. Let's say that both figures are pretty much the same size and complexity, and have a similar number of paint operations, so that each individual miniature that comes out of the mold costs a similar amount in plastic, paint, and packaging.
Now, in the first case, I can spread my $2000 sculpt and mold costs over 10,000 units, so that adds twenty cents to the plastic, paint, and packaging cost of each mini. But in the second case, I can only spread that cost over 1000 units, so it adds two DOLLARS to the cost of that mini. And that's the cost to the manufacturer, before the product is marked up by a distributor and then a retailer.
By bringing the concept of relative rarity to the mix, you can instead average out those mold costs over all of the figures in the run—maybe you can get the mold cost per mini for the entire run down to something more like 30 or 40 cents*, and suddenly, you have 40 minis that you can reasonably sell.
*: These numbers are examples only, and if they reflect real-world numbers, they do so only coincidentally.
Sorry this was from a few pages back (and a bit off topic but I find it interesting.
Isn't it the same though? I mean with the radomness you are making less uniques and more orcs, etc, and spreading the cost of the molds over all of them. Why would it be different from non random, but orderable. What is the difference nbetween packing the boxes randomly with 1000 dwarves and 10,000 orcs, or putting them up on the website and selling 1000 dwarves and selling 10,000 orcs, if it isn't a matter of predicting the sales? You are still spreading the cost.
(Not trying to be confrontational, just really curious)
|
|
PLEASE, Paizo, can you get all of your mini sets on amazon.com? I buy as many books as I can directly from your store, but minis are WAY more expensive, and amazon is always has good deals on minis. Sorry to sound cheap... but please consider this. For our wallets :)
There are other cheap online retailers. Miniaturemarket.com and CCGArmory.com stand out as among the cheapest of them -- and they both routinely sell cases.
My point: there will be avenues to get this product which will be less expensive than others.
Sorry this was from a few pages back (and a bit off topic but I find it interesting.
Isn't it the same though? I mean with the radomness you are making less uniques and more orcs, etc, and spreading the cost of the molds over all of them. Why would it be different from non random, but orderable. What is the difference nbetween packing the boxes randomly with 1000 dwarves and 10,000 orcs, or putting them up on the website and selling 1000 dwarves and selling 10,000 orcs, if it isn't a matter of predicting the sales? You are still spreading the cost.
(Not trying to be confrontational, just really curious)
My guess is that the randomness helps the store owners more. They don't need a wall of minis to have these in stock. This saves a lot of shelf space, and helps with stock management. I know a number of stores that would never stock individual minis but will stock these because they have the space.
Just announced! See the Press Release here! (It has some info on follow-up sets, as well as a FAQ you'll want to check out.)
We will be making the black dragon case premium available to those who order cases from paizo.com, and in other ways as well. Details on that will be announced later.
The real question is what do we need to do to get a froghemoth mini?
|
Ok before I pre-order a case, can you guys 100% guarantee I will be able to buy that black dragon?If you order the case from us, we'll make sure that that any offer that's extended to case buyers, including the Black Dragon offer, is extended to you. (I wish I could tell you what the *terms* of that offer were right now, but it really hasn't been finalized.)
Just pre-ordered a case. My low number of minis problem will be solved. However, how will we be notified of the Black Dragon purchasing? Will it come via email or account notification on here?
|
Finally a question I have always had about RPG minis in general: Why are they made with round bases when they are meant to be used on a square grid? Why not make them with a square base?The early Star Wars miniatures sets had square bases and, to me, they just feel bulkier. I'd rather have round bases.
Star Wars Miniatures released only one set with square bases, and that was for some kind of anniversary that Star Wars had that same year. 30th anniversary, maybe?
Anyway: Square bases:
1. Take more plastic to make.
2. bulkier
3. Arent as useful for hex maps as round bases are
4. limit the direction the figure can be facing while on the map to four directions, opposed to allowing you to have them face whichever direction would make the pose look coolest while it stands next to the other pieces on the boards (make them fight, etc).
Anyway, I love the idea, but not the price.
@ Vic and Lisa: I do not wish to see you guys enter the realm of miniature gaming. As much as I loved Star Wars Minis, it takes alot of dedication and full company support (something SWM never had from wotc for whatever reason) to make the game the best it can be. I dont think you guys would halfa** it, but those are resources you could spend making the rpg even better.
I'm still just trying to get the right minis together for the first chapter of the kingmaker adventure path, it's a nightmare. I ordered the paper minis, but they're missing about 25% of the creatures/characters, reaper has another 5%, there's no Tatzylworm anywhere...Should it be this difficult? I think not.
While I will purchase these minis, I am still very upset over the random mini distribution model you will use. I worry that the monsters I really need will all be rare. I had this problem with the D&D mini lines. I can easily get goblins, orcs, skeletons, and other common low level monsters. What I want is to be able to easily and cheaply buy groups of the demons, devils, angels, and dragons. In the D&D mini lines these figures would sell for high prices. I really can't afford to purchase enough of these figures to use them properly. I could probably get by with only having singles of the more powerful monsters but many of the mid level creatures are often fought in groups. Having a single Gelgulon is not really useful. I need 4 to 6 of them for a decent encounter. Same goes for other outsiders. Not to mention that I also need some of these monsters for use by the players for their summons.
Hopefully some of the non random packs will be about things like demons and devils.
Anyways the sculpts look great but I am worried about the final quality. I still remember the horrendous quality of the figs for some of their other games like Mage Knight.
EDIT: Please do not make a miniatures game to go with these figures. I don't want some other game inflating the aftermarket cost of these minis. If you do decide to make such a game perhaps it should be it's own line with separate mini sets that can use the same molds but different bases or maybe special markings to tell the differences between the games.
The first set might be tough, but after that you should be able to judge the print runs on types of minis. Lot of orcs, skels, etc. less on the uniques.The problem isn't being able to predict sales, it's being able to justify the costs of a low-volume product.
Manufacturing costs are tied strongly to volume, because, after all, the mold costs exactly same whether you make 100 figures or 10000 from it. And since the mold is one of the most expensive parts of the process, you have to spread that cost out over a large number of figures. Think of it this way:
I want to make two minis. One of them will sell 10,000 copies*. The other one, just 1000 copies*. For each, the sculpt and mold costs the same amount of money—let's say $2000*. Let's say that both figures are pretty much the same size and complexity, and have a similar number of paint operations, so that each individual miniature that comes out of the mold costs a similar amount in plastic, paint, and packaging.
Now, in the first case, I can spread my $2000 sculpt and mold costs over 10,000 units, so that adds twenty cents to the plastic, paint, and packaging cost of each mini. But in the second case, I can only spread that cost over 1000 units, so it adds two DOLLARS to the cost of that mini. And that's the cost to the manufacturer, before the product is marked up by a distributor and then a retailer.
By bringing the concept of relative rarity to the mix, you can instead average out those mold costs over all of the figures in the run—maybe you can get the mold cost per mini for the entire run down to something more like 30 or 40 cents*, and suddenly, you have 40 minis that you can reasonably sell.
*: These numbers are examples only, and if they reflect real-world numbers, they do so only coincidentally.
Sorry this was from a few pages back (and a bit off topic but I find it interesting.
Isn't it the same though? I mean with the radomness you are making less uniques...
Think of it this way, the figure that you could sell a 1000 of now costs $20 (using the rule of 10) and the one you can send 10,000 of costs $2. The randomness lets you price the pack at $3 or $4. Otherwise you don't produce the one that will sell 1000, because maybe 10 people will buy it at $20.
id be interested if each mini is a 'monster'
nobody needs any more town guards, dwarf fighters, elf bowmen etc
I would be very interested in any AP set
My guess is that the randomness helps the store owners more. They don't need a wall of minis to have these in stock. This saves a lot of shelf space, and helps with stock management. I know a number of stores that would never stock individual minis but will stock these because they have the space.Sorry this was from a few pages back (and a bit off topic but I find it interesting.
Isn't it the same though? I mean with the radomness you are making less uniques and more orcs, etc, and spreading the cost of the molds over all of them. Why would it be different from non random, but orderable. What is the difference nbetween packing the boxes randomly with 1000 dwarves and 10,000 orcs, or putting them up on the website and selling 1000 dwarves and selling 10,000 orcs, if it isn't a matter of predicting the sales? You are still spreading the cost.
(Not trying to be confrontational, just really curious)
Or they could use a little brainpower, realize that some minis will obviously need to be stocked more than others and the rest can be ordered. I'm not going to spend 4 dollars for a mini I might not even need because distributors and retailers are lazy.
|
|
Good for you Paizo Team! After the previous line died, I was a little bummed out. Not that I really need more mini's, but I would not pass up an opportunity for Pathfinder Mini's.
I started purchasing plastic mini's in 2003 when they started. I would buy 6 - 12 cases of each set depending on what I thought of the previews. They would arrive at home and my kids would be so excited about opening them, it was just like Christmas! I hardly opened any mini's because the kids really helped out with them. When the line ended, so did our tradition. It was sad.
Now I have close to 10,000 mini's, so I must admit that I probably could do without more, but given the opportunity to have some Pathfinder specific beasties and unique figs, AND that I can enjoy this time honored tradition with my youngest now, I am thrilled.
I will buy many cases I am sure.
Thoughts on the line -
Price: They do seem a little expensive, but based on other options out there, I think the price is in the ballpark.
Randomness: I dig random packing, but I have been burned a few times on missing certain rares. I would rather see a handful of figures in each box to eliminate packing waste. Maybe 3-4? But I will try whatever model you decide on and offer my feedback later.
Rarity: I only liked the rarity aspect when done right. Goblins are great commons because we all want a bunch. Ogres are good uncommons. Dragons are good rares. But if it is too hard to get all the rares, it is a drawback. Being able to buy two cases and have all of the figs would be cool.
I know you did your homework, otherwise we wouldn't have plastic mini's again, so none of my comments are new. Thanks for doing this for the gaming industry.
I am not a big fan of paper mini's and I dislike pogs. Thanks again!
When we first started selling D&D singles, we made up a bunch of themed "critter packs," but keeping them stocked ended up being too much effort to keep up. While the idea is conceptually great, it's probably just too labor-intensive to justify.
Is there a way to tag or link to these mini singles when new modules and AP's are released? It'd be sweet to see what minis I'll need to "properly" (lol) run that adventure prior to purchasing it.
Or they could use a little brainpower, realize that some minis will obviously need to be stocked more than others and the rest can be ordered. I'm not going to spend 4 dollars for a mini I might not even need because distributors and retailers are lazy.My guess is that the randomness helps the store owners more. They don't need a wall of minis to have these in stock. This saves a lot of shelf space, and helps with stock management. I know a number of stores that would never stock individual minis but will stock these because they have the space.Sorry this was from a few pages back (and a bit off topic but I find it interesting.
Isn't it the same though? I mean with the radomness you are making less uniques and more orcs, etc, and spreading the cost of the molds over all of them. Why would it be different from non random, but orderable. What is the difference nbetween packing the boxes randomly with 1000 dwarves and 10,000 orcs, or putting them up on the website and selling 1000 dwarves and selling 10,000 orcs, if it isn't a matter of predicting the sales? You are still spreading the cost.
(Not trying to be confrontational, just really curious)
And then your Tatzylwyrm never gets made, because there isn't enough demand for it. Randomness allows you to produce minis that won't sell enough on their own.
I wish there was a box/pack somewhere in size between the large booster and the brick. Maybe two in that spot. Something that had more minis but in a price range near to that $15-20 mark.
My wife and I do worry about the price per mini (we're seeing $2 for a small sized or $4 for a medium sized and $6 for a large). This concerns us and makes us feel like we felt during the end of the DDM runs where we were dropping $20 for 6 figures.
|
|
Honestly it's cheaper to buy Warhammer 40k minis -- and yes that is an insult.Uh, you bought 40K minis lately? Mastercast resins?Yeah, I just clicked around GW's Website--found stuff like this single IG officer for $10.75--holy crap! (And that one's still metal, not the new resin). I'm sure in some of the army boxes, per unit the models are cheaper--but you can see in the link that a boxset including this fellow adds up to about $3.90 a miniature--not much cheaper than the $3.99 for the prepainted (and a brick of singles will be cheaper per unit).
To be fair though, the Vostroyan you linked was part of a very detailed, all metal only, army. You are/were generally a serious collector before jumping onto what is a premium priced army.
If you've seen one up close, you'd understand the sculpts alone on the Vostryans put entire catalogues from some other companies to shame.
|
And then your Tatzylwyrm never gets made, because there isn't enough demand for it. Randomness allows you to produce minis that won't sell enough on their own.
The randomization is, at least in the CCG/Mini-game world, an effort to introduce Variable ratio schedule reinforcement. The problem anticipated by the post you quoted, and my own concern, is that the rewards won't ever scale to something worth more than $4.
Imagine a $1 slot machine. Some times you pull the lever and get BIG BUCKS. This means that you're willing to pull it a lot of times in hopes of getting the desired result.
Imagine that same machine where your winning options are $1 or (less than $1).
Going back to the CCG concept, you also have a variable ratio. When you open a $4 pack you're likely to find several cards worth less than $4. However, occasionally you'll find one worth more than $4. Some times, a lot more. This is partially due to those being rare, but is mostly due to the card's relative power in the game. They are the 'BIG BUCKS' cards because they help you to win a competitive, deck building game.
WhizKids has experience with this model, due to HeroClix. It's the same deal. You might open a booster and get some crappy guy, or you might get Superman. The variable value of the reward, specifically with it being occasionally worth more than the cost of the booster, makes it work.
In an RPG, the miniature is only valuable when you want to place it on the game mat. There's no 'deck limit' as in a CCG. There are no 'seasons' making minis expire and need to be replaced. There's genuinely little need for new minis at all. If you have a troll, 'supertroll' isn't really necessary. The stats aren't on the dial on the bottom of the mini, they're in the bestiary.
Apples to oranges.
Now, and again, I concede that this is the only way WhizKids was going to do it. And in that light I do suppose that doing it is better than not doing it, especially since I believe this has been Lisa's goal for quite a while. And I'm not bashing any of that. I'd just like to help people understand why there might be some who aren't that excited about the product. There are some pretty solid psychological reasons why this would be the case.
And then your Tatzylwyrm never gets made, because there isn't enough demand for it. Randomness allows you to produce minis that won't sell enough on their own.The randomization is, at least in the CCG/Mini-game world, an effort to introduce Variable ratio schedule reinforcement. The problem anticipated by the post you quoted, and my own concern, is that the rewards won't ever scale to something worth more than $4.
Imagine a $1 slot machine. Some times you pull the lever and get BIG BUCKS. This means that you're willing to pull it a lot of times in hopes of getting the desired result.
Imagine that same machine where your winning options are $1 or (less than $1).
Going back to the CCG concept, you also have a variable ratio. When you open a $4 pack you're likely to find several cards worth less than $4. However, occasionally you'll find one worth more than $4. Some times, a lot more. This is partially due to those being rare, but is mostly due to the card's relative power in the game. They are the 'BIG BUCKS' cards because they help you to win a competitive, deck building game.
WhizKids has experience with this model, due to HeroClix. It's the same deal. You might open a booster and get some crappy guy, or you might get Superman. The variable value of the reward, specifically with it being occasionally worth more than the cost of the booster, makes it work.
In an RPG, the miniature is only valuable when you want to place it on the game mat. There's no 'deck limit' as in a CCG. There are no 'seasons' making minis expire and need to be replaced. There's genuinely little need for new minis at all. If you have a troll, 'supertroll' isn't really necessary. The stats aren't on the dial on the bottom of the mini, they're in the bestiary.
Apples to oranges.
Now, and again, I concede that this is the only way WhizKids was going to do it. And in that light I do suppose that doing it is better than...
My point was that you either get a model like what reaper does with their PPMs and get 1 or 2 minis a month (if that). Or you do random and get larger numbers of minis. Reaper has produced 88 metal minis in about 2 years. In less than a year Whizkids will be releasing at least 104.
|
|
Is there a way to tag or link to these mini singles when new modules and AP's are released? It'd be sweet to see what minis I'll need to "properly" (lol) run that adventure prior to purchasing it.
there's always the add to list function that has been withthe store over a year... I have sucessfully listed all flip mats/mappacks needed for PFS this way
Honestly it's cheaper to buy Warhammer 40k minis -- and yes that is an insult.Uh, you bought 40K minis lately? Mastercast resins?Yeah, I just clicked around GW's Website--found stuff like this single IG officer for $10.75--holy crap! (And that one's still metal, not the new resin). I'm sure in some of the army boxes, per unit the models are cheaper--but you can see in the link that a boxset including this fellow adds up to about $3.90 a miniature--not much cheaper than the $3.99 for the prepainted (and a brick of singles will be cheaper per unit).
To be fair though, the Vostroyan you linked was part of a very detailed, all metal only, army. You are/were generally a serious collector before jumping onto what is a premium priced army.
If you've seen one up close, you'd understand the sculpts alone on the Vostryans put entire catalogues from some other companies to shame.
For the record, I looked at a number of armies, including more common ones (e.g., Space Marines and Eldar). Space Marines were hands down all around more expensive; box sets might be cheaper per unit. Eldar's cheapest figure was a $7.00 harlequin. I picked the Vostroyan as an example as it looked roughly median to what most single figures cost. If you can find commonly bought, cheaper figures that compare to the cost of these pre-painted minis, please feel free to point them out using specific examples---the point was to compare the price of Paizo's pre-painted minis to other common miniature prices on the gaming market (and someone specifically brought up GW minis as cheaper), not to critique GW's pricing methods. Likewise, if you have other miniatures to compare, please add them on!:)
|
|
I know the production run is probably well under way and the packaging made etc... so my 2 cents isn't going to sway you too much, but this is the Interweb and unsolicited opinions are a way of life here. ;)
I love the look and quality of the new Wizkids models, but I don't like the idea of selling single, random minis for the following reasons:
1) Excess Packaging. If you only have one or two minis in a teeny little box, it's going to use up a lot of packaging materials. You could probably fit 4-5 minis in a box twice as tall or wide and generate less waste. There would likely also be some savings in printing costs (less wasted card stock from die cuts, less material used, less ink).
2) Perceived Value. I know that there is no difference between paying $4 for a single mini and $20 for five, but I notice that there is a lot of displeasure about the single mini price point. If minis were sold in a small, still randomized, package people might perceive that they are getting a better deal. I know I would. My grocery store often sells items 2 for $5, but although you can still get the single item for $2.50, they seem to sell a lot of things by two's.
3) Rarity of miniatures not tied to a game system. A big reason that MTG and DDM have had so much success with random packaging is that the highly desirable cards/minis were of more value in a competitive game. People routinely shell out for entire cases of MTG cards at my FLGS in the hopes of getting first crack at those new, powerful cards. The drive to complete a collection for the sake of completing it seems less of an incentive by comparison.
OTT, I think that this miniatures line is long overdue and I look forward to seeing how well it does.
One question though: With the DDM line, a case gave you four of each common, one or two of each uncommon, and about half of the rares ones. does the Paizo line have a similar packaging strategy?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Or they could use a little brainpower, realize that some minis will obviously need to be stocked more than others and the rest can be ordered. I'm not going to spend 4 dollars for a mini I might not even need because distributors and retailers are lazy.
Take your own advise, seriously.
The reasons for the things you complain about are even in this very thread.
It has nothing to do with "laziness". It has to do with the fact that 40 products instead of 2 are simply more expensive. 40 products means shelf space for 40 products. And shelf space costs money. And that cost will be relayed to the customer, like every single cost a business has.
And yes, it means more effort to order. Again despite your claims, this has nothing to do with laziness, and everything with the fact that effort costs money. Refer to the last paragraph for where that cost goes.
And then there's the fact that if you sell them non-random, you can't just sell them in equal amounts. Some minis will be really well-liked, so they sell a lot. Considering that plastic figure have high fixed costs (read the rest of the thread for why that is), those figures will naturally have a low per-piece cost, which means they can sell it cheaper.
However, the less you sell a miniature, the less units you can split the fixed costs over, so the per-piece cost rices. That means the price will have to rise. Might be that they won't be done at all, because the more expensive you make those figures, the less you will sell. Vicious circle. People will wonder why the more popular stuff is cheaper to boot.
Either that or they'll just keep the prices flat across all figures and make more off the more popular ones.
And this "less popular figures" stuff isn't about the two-legged crocodiles and weird psionic insects thing nobody likes. It's about everything that isn't the most popular stuff.
|
|
If you can find commonly bought, cheaper figures that compare to the cost of these pre-painted minis, please feel free to point them out using specific examples---the point was to compare the price of Paizo's pre-painted minis to other common miniature prices on the gaming market (and someone specifically brought up GW minis as cheaper), not to critique GW's pricing methods. Likewise, if you have other miniatures to compare, please add them on!:)
Well - unfortunately, I don't have any pre-painted to add ... but, there was a time, when Rackham put out pre-painted for their Confrontation line. If I recall, they were closer to the $10-15 mark than the WizKids line.
All in all though, I think on a practical level, it's hard to make a legitimate comparison. The closest I could find is if you used a service like Blue Table Painting on a GW Miniature. The scults unfortunately though are still in a completely different class, and that's going to factor alot into the "value" of the model.
Single warrior or chaos ($42, pack of 12) so $3.50 per mini.
Level 2, BTP - $5 (Level 2 Example. Still more detailed than a normal pre-painted.
So about $8.50 for a basic GW painted mini.
Not bad actually, all things considered.
CEO
|
PLEASE, Paizo, can you get all of your mini sets on amazon.com? I buy as many books as I can directly from your store, but minis are WAY more expensive, and amazon is always has good deals on minis. Sorry to sound cheap... but please consider this. For our wallets :)
Whether they end up on Amazon or not is not up to us. These miniatures are being done by WizKids under license from us and they are doing all of the selling into distribution. I know that the WizKids folks are reading this thread though.
-Lisa
I think my question was missed with all the posts after it. I will post again:
If it has been determined, how many sets will release per year? I know the RotRL set has been announced for June, is that going to be standard time between sets, around every 6 months (twice a year)?
While I understand people might be wary of the $4 per medium figure price. What I can't believe is that people seem to be ignoring the $6 per large figure. No where have I seen that kind of deal. A large pewter model is $15 from reaper. Most of the large DDM minis went for $12 and up in the aftermarket. Certainly there were a few exceptions that ended up very unpopular, but $6 for a large mini is an incredible deal. I'm going to buy a brick + a tons of larges. I so need more large figures for my game.
It appears I'm arriving a bit late, but better late than never!
WOW!
Nice looking previews & the plan seems pretty well thought out to me. Obviously you can't please everybody, but with the plan you've come up with, it seems like folks should be able to tap into the plan somehow to get the figures they need/want.
I expect I'll probably end up getting a case in order to guarantee being able to get that awesome black dragon, but like others, really would like to see the set list before making that decision. Since WizKids prefers to wait to release the set list, I guess I'll be waiting & seeing as well. Though... I'm pretty sure the set list would have to be pretty awful to turn me away from buying a case.
Looking forward to seeing more info about this product line!
Keep up the good work!
|
|
.....
Yes, but here's an idea. If you are going to have randomized mini's then do not have randomized battle cards to go with them. Sell them in a set like you do the gamemastery cards. Specifically in a double pack like you did with the Dragon's Trove Deck. So instead of a 54 card deck you now have a 108 card deck. Assuming you set your battles game up similar to that of the DDM game this is where the fun begins. Let's play with numbers:60 miniature randomized set
1 card in deck corresponding to each miniature
108 - 60 = 48 cards left overNow with the remaining 48 cards create variants so that getting multiple mini's becomes more exciting. For example the Gnome Fighter miniature could have 3 corresponding cards in the deck:
Card 1 = Gnome Fighter 3
Card 2 = Gnome Fighter 5 / Duelist 2
Card 3 = Gnome Fighter (Tactician Archtype) 12Suddenly having 3 Gnome Fighters doesn't seem so bad.
I like that alot, and this way it doesn't change up products already coming out and can be an optional product for those who wish to play the miniatures game can buy the card pack seperately.
Is there any Pathfinder Battles game in the works?Yes! It's called the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!
We do not currently have any concrete plans regarding a separate miniatures game. Is that something you'd like to see?
YES!!!
What I can't believe is that people seem to be ignoring the $6 per large figure.
I was thinking the same thing. 2/4/6 value for s/m/l is just fine by me.
Go to a toy store and check out prices on plastic action figures. This kind of stuff is not as inexpensive as it was 15 years ago.
In my opinion WIZKIDS is price gouging here and Paizo is letting them. WIZKIDS has seen the demand from the pre-orders and based their price off that. $4 is alot. The CAPCOM Street Fighter boosters that are coming out are pretty much the same format as the Pathfinder Mini's and they are only priced at $2.25 each. A set of 6 goes for 12.99.
Paizo fans are getting hosed here and Paizo should have fought for a better price for their customer base.
Dont get me wrong Paizo is still a great company but the price is steep for many fans. I can afford it but others may not be able to. We should look at expanding our game by making our products as affordable as possible to increase the player base ( and customers).
At the very least they defintely should be included as a monthly subscription. (I ve stated this in a previous min's post)
|
Pure Awesomeness! Thank you Paizo for another great product. I can't wait to see the final post production sculpts.
My 1 wish: The special for the Rise of the Runelords set is a massive rune giant.
My 1 regret: After a year and a half my Rise of the Runelords campaign will be drawing to a close probably sometime this fall, well before the ROtRL mini set is released. Oh well, back to furiously painting more reaper minis for the time being.
