So people talk about how cool it would be if you just had to take one TWF feat and it just morphed into Improved and greater as you leveled.
Does anyone actually do it? How could it be done? Which feats should be combined and at what level/BAB should the chain advance?
+4 BAB is when feats like Power Attack and Combat Ex progress, is that a good time? +6 is when you gain an iterative attack, so it's a good choice too. Or should it be level, and the wizard gets greater trip the same time as the fighter?
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This is a good format to follow.
Disclaimer: I said the format was good, no one should be derailing about how these feats are overpowered. >:(
I house rule vital strike to morph into the next version when the BAB prequisite is met. Now non-full spellcasters actually consider it worth taking for the versatility.
Two Weapon Fighting:
I would combine the two weapon fighting feats (Two weapon fighting, Improved Two weapon fighting, Greater Two weapon fighting) into one feat and have it improve when you gain another iterative attack.
Vital Strike:
I would combine the Vital Strike feats (Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, Greater Vital Strike) into one feat and have it improve when you gain another iterative attack.
For the Combat Maneuver Feats, I would upgrade them at BAB +6 (the bab requirement for the Greater versions).
Some of the other feat chains represent several distinct abilities (The Point Blank Shot Feat chain, for example), and I would not combine these.
I completely agree, and am working on implementing this houserule in my current game.
Out of curiosity, has anyone run into any problems with this method?
For anything in the X/Improved X/Greater X vein, condensing a feat chain into one is simplicity itself. Look at the prerequisites for the higher feats in the chain--frequently, this is little more than a BAB requirement, a certain number of skill ranks, or a level requirement. When you meet those prerequisites, the feat automatically upgrades.
I ran a game where I let one player take one feat for TWF, and got a second attack whenever they got a new iterative.
We only played up to mid levels (just around 9th-10th), and honestly.. it meant one extra feat. I think they picked a Skill Focus feat (the first time I'd ever seen that taken, other than NPCs or myself).
No... it was hardly impacting at all to the game, and it was simpler to keep track of, and gave the player more options for choosing this attack method.
YMMV of course.
Another question is if nonscaling feats are going to get left in the dust if the scale by chaining feats like vital strike are condensed.
I don't think that would happen. With so many slots freed up from condensing, you're free to take stuff like skill focus or what have you. Or should an effort be made to make every feat scale?
I like the idea that you get the next feat when you meet the prereqs. And I think I'll be trying this idea out very soon.
Another question is if nonscaling feats are going to get left in the dust if the scale by chaining feats like vital strike are condensed.I don't think that would happen. With so many slots freed up from condensing, you're free to take stuff like skill focus or what have you. Or should an effort be made to make every feat scale?
I like the idea that you get the next feat when you meet the prereqs. And I think I'll be trying this idea out very soon.
I worry about balance. In this case, choice balance rather than mechanical balance. Having most of the feats that directly affect combat scale makes the more utilitarian/flavor feats that much weaker and hard to choose over kicking ass. However, with so MANY feats to choose from, and so FEW slots, I don't think it would hurt much in the big picture.
My goal, though, would be to make all feats scale; essentially making them akin to minor class powers that you can tailor your character with. It would be difficult in many cases, but one can usually think of some bonus to grant spread over levels. It would be really cool if you truly benefited from ALL your feats for your entire career. There would still be reasons to retrain feats (if allowed) but it would be much less necessary.
dot for interest.
I worry about balance. In this case, choice balance rather than mechanical balance. Having most of the feats that directly affect combat scale makes the more utilitarian/flavor feats that much weaker and hard to choose over kicking ass. However, with so MANY feats to choose from, and so FEW slots, I don't think it would hurt much in the big picture.
I can see both sides of this, definitely. If someone is already inclined to just take combat feats, this just gives them more combat feats.
I like this idea since it frees up a great number feat slots.
And implementing it for a number of feats is fairly simple (Once the character meats the next steps prerequisites the new effects come into play).
But what about those feats that should logically be folded together but have no prerequisites? (For example: Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus).
What would one suggest as a logical progression for this?
I like this idea since it frees up a great number feat slots.
And implementing it for a number of feats is fairly simple (Once the character meats the next steps prerequisites the new effects come into play).
But what about those feats that should logically be folded together but have no prerequisites? (For example: Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus).
What would one suggest as a logical progression for this?
Speaking only to the mentioned feats, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus, I would suggest 9th or 10th caster level. It is the half way point for full casters in the power or their spells (5th level spells).
Speaking only to the mentioned feats, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus, I would suggest 9th or 10th caster level. It is the half way point for full casters in the power or their spells (5th level spells).I like this idea since it frees up a great number feat slots.
And implementing it for a number of feats is fairly simple (Once the character meats the next steps prerequisites the new effects come into play).
But what about those feats that should logically be folded together but have no prerequisites? (For example: Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus).
What would one suggest as a logical progression for this?
An interesting take...
I opted to go with just setting an arbitrary class/caster level 4 requirement (since both indicate they can be taken multiple times and in theory one could have both feats by level 3.)
A human could have both feats at level 1.
(And, apropos of nothing, in PFS any wizard could have both feats at L1; PFS makes you swap Scribe Scroll for Spell Focus.)
Honestly ... I'd just make Spell Focus a +2 and eliminate Greater.
A human could have both feats at level 1.
(And, apropos of nothing, in PFS any wizard could have both feats at L1; PFS makes you swap Scribe Scroll for Spell Focus.)
Honestly ... I'd just make Spell Focus a +2 and eliminate Greater.
I rather like the idea of it scaling. But your idea does have merit.