One of the guys I dm asked a great question, I believe he plans to use this tactic in game soon and want to see what others think.
His idea- cast invisibility on an iron gate, and when a creature runs into it on a charge what would be the damage?
My answer- creature makes a dc 40 spot check to notice, if the creature fails the iron gate is assumed to have braced and does double damage (1d8 as heavy mace).
This also opened up a whole new pile of uses with this question.
-can you cast it on unoccupied items, is there a save? If so what?
-if cast on a door can you look through it as if it was clear like a window?
-can you just cast it on pieces of items, one bar in the iron gate? One wagon wheel?
I assume if the item is within the weight allowed by the caster level it is fair game.
Looking for some people to weigh in on this before it becomes used. Feel free to add other great uses of the invisibility spell. Thanks in advance.
Unattended objects would get no save if nonmagical IIRC. A magical item would get a save, something like +2 plus 1/2 caster level, again IIRC. Note the spell affects an object; pieces of object, by default, are not an object. I'd have no problems with someone reinterpreting this however. I've seen the trick with the gate before, back in 2E with dust of disappearance. One cavalry charge got utterly annihilated charging at a closed gate. And I mean UTTERLY. So I'd probably give it a little more oomph, though your reasoning is sensible. You might say the damage done is based on the size of the object, as if someone were hit by an object of that same size. Falling damage is another possibility, damage equal to distance traveled minus a few feet.
"Target : you or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lbs./level"
First of all he has to have a pretty high level to target an iron gate. Second, yes, he can cast on an unoccupied item without any save being made. Yes, casting it on a door would make the other side become visible as an invisible person standing in front of a visible person's wouldn't also make the visible person invisible : only the invisible person is unseen, not what's behind it. And for casting on one piece of item, I'd say no. It's a GM's call, though, and some GMs allow players to cast Light on the tip of their spears while some don't.
Want another good way to fool people into thinking there's no door without using Invisibility? Silent Image is your friend. Need to hide? Create a giant rock and hide under the illusion : no one's going to look under a giant rock. Indoors? Create a wall and hide behind it. Want to make everyone believe there is no door? Create an illusion representing exactly what's behind the gate without the gate. Easier to spot than Invisibility, but still useful!
"Target : you or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lbs./level"
First of all he has to have a pretty high level to target an iron gate. Second, yes, he can cast on an unoccupied item without any save being made. Yes, casting it on a door would make the other side become visible as an invisible person standing in front of a visible person's wouldn't also make the visible person invisible : only the invisible person is unseen, not what's behind it. And for casting on one piece of item, I'd say no. It's a GM's call, though, and some GMs allow players to cast Light on the tip of their spears while some don't.
Want another good way to fool people into thinking there's no door without using Invisibility? Silent Image is your friend. Need to hide? Create a giant rock and hide under the illusion : no one's going to look under a giant rock. Indoors? Create a wall and hide behind it. Want to make everyone believe there is no door? Create an illusion representing exactly what's behind the gate without the gate. Easier to spot than Invisibility, but still useful!
Silent Image is one of my favorite spells for things like this, particularly since it has Duration: Concentration. You can concentrate for a long, long time compared to a spell that lasts for a number of minutes equal to your level, particularly if there's no real reason for you to stop concentrating or have to make concentration rolls.
Silent image on the castle wall of an open gate = knights charge into it cartoon style! Yukyukyukyuk!
Old Ideas, but used with permanency...
When making/building a building, tower, keep, what-have-ya' cast invisiblity on stone blocks as to make a "security window"
For use on traps that don't catch a player flat-footed and has a attack role and you want that extra edge to make sure that trap you made hits.
For use on ladders or ropes, to hide a secret escape rout that looks like only a hole in the ceiling or floor.
just to name a few use's I've liked. :D
Want another good way to fool people into thinking there's no door without using Invisibility? Silent Image is your friend.
...
Create an illusion representing exactly what's behind the gate without the gate.
Hm. Follow-up question. The description for Silent Image states:
This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you.
That's "AN object, creature, or force." One thing. So how do I make the gate look like it's gone AND mimic everything behind it with a first level spell with a low DC?
Want another good way to fool people into thinking there's no door without using Invisibility? Silent Image is your friend.
...
Create an illusion representing exactly what's behind the gate without the gate.
Hm. Follow-up question. The description for Silent Image states:
This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you.That's "AN object, creature, or force." One thing. So how do I make the gate look like it's gone AND mimic everything behind it with a first level spell with a low DC?
You don't it is common to interpret illusions too freely, you shouldn't be able to make something invisible with the spell, at best you can conceal something by placing something infront of it, hiding a door behind a tangle of vines or a wall for example.
You don't it is common to interpret illusions too freely, you shouldn't be able to make something invisible with the spell, at best you can conceal something by placing something infront of it, hiding a door behind a tangle of vines or a wall for example.
Right. That was supposed to be a sardonic tone in my last post. Silent image is clearly not the solution for the question in the original post of this thread.
:-)
If you're invisible than by that nature you can freely see what's behind something (like a gate). Otherwise anything invisible woudl be easily seen as a negative space on a backdrop. Which would basically negate the purpose of the spell.
Want another good way to fool people into thinking there's no door without using Invisibility? Silent Image is your friend.
...
Create an illusion representing exactly what's behind the gate without the gate.
Hm. Follow-up question. The description for Silent Image states:
This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you.That's "AN object, creature, or force." One thing. So how do I make the gate look like it's gone AND mimic everything behind it with a first level spell with a low DC?
You visualize, say, a painting of the scene in great detail. You don't get many of the fine details (i.e. signs will be blank or have scribbles, people will not have discernable faces, etc.), but you do get enough to fool a casual observation at a distance.
You visualize, say, a painting of the scene in great detail. You don't get many of the fine details (i.e. signs will be blank or have scribbles, people will not have discernable faces, etc.), but you do get enough to fool a casual observation at a distance.
Doesn't help the original post. The player wants a creature to run smack into the thing. Not casually observe it from a distance.
Actually, he is helping. It is unlikely for a charging character to notice the smaller details. Therefore, it IS possible for a combination of 1st level spells, or a single spell, to do what he seeks.
Really? If you were running, you wouldn't notice if you were going to run into a painting?