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The problem with making apes humanoids is that you remove them from the list of available animal companions and wild shape options. I know a number of druids who like apes so they can continue to use weapons in combat.
I'm sure there are even more druids who like unicorns and they still can't take them as animal companions or transform into them. Not to mention grizzly bears.
And the facts that druids change into apes to be able to use weapons is actually a pretty good argument to change the type of apes to humanoid.
Apes are in my opinion a bit of a grey area, they might look fairly humanoid, but they are not very capable of walking upright and are fairly lacking in manual dexterity and intelligence, there are no actual rules for apes wielding tools, but it is likely they will have a harder time of it than humanoids. Some GMs might like to treat them as pet humanoids, others keep them firmly in the animal camp. Personally I think treating them as humanoids doesn't feel quite right, weapons seem likely to be more bother than help, I probably would allow them to use it but never without non-proficiency penalty.
Now I'm curious. How does 4e classify creature types?Each creature has an origin and a type.
Origins are aberrant, elemental, fey, immortal, natural and shadow.
Types are animate, beast, humanoid and magical beast.
There are also subtypes, so a skeleton is a 'natural animate (undead)' and a wolf is a 'natural beast'.
Nah.
Creative Director
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Can't speak for everyone but I for one welcome more ridonkulously huge made-up animal-type animals into the game. :)I've been considering writing up a set of animals of CR higher than 13 (there are currently no animals beyond this). Since there seems to be a want for them, I might get to work sooner. :D
Not QUITE true. The great white whale from Bestiary 2 is CR 14.
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The problem with making apes humanoids is that you remove them from the list of available animal companions and wild shape options. I know a number of druids who like apes so they can continue to use weapons in combat.I'm sure there are even more druids who like unicorns and they still can't take them as animal companions or transform into them. Not to mention grizzly bears.
And the facts that druids change into apes to be able to use weapons is actually a pretty good argument to change the type of apes to humanoid.
However, if you start going down that road, you are changing the dynamic of Pathfinder where it is an evolution of 3.0/3.5. Yes, Pathfinder changed some things from 3.5, but once the initial changes were made, it has remained consistent. Otherwise, you have 4e where whether a magic missile has a to hit roll depends on the day of the week.
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However, if you start going down that road, you are changing the dynamic of Pathfinder where it is an evolution of 3.0/3.5. Yes, Pathfinder changed some things from 3.5, but once the initial changes were made, it has remained consistent. Otherwise, you have 4e where whether a magic missile has a to hit roll depends on the day of the week.
Pathfinder gets changed pretty often these days. And I don't see that as a bad thing.
If something is a problem, change it.I'm not even advocating a change to the types. While they have some issues, there are more important problems.
Keeping things for the sake of keeping them is about as good as changing them for the sake of change.
A system like 4E uses can't be applies without severely reducing backward compatibility. That doesn't change the fact that it's more systematic and more intuitive to use.
I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet, but there's a really big glaring problem that Aasimar and Tieflings have that no other PC capable race has to deal with. They're legal targets for spells like Planar Binding.
Exactly when was the last time your Dwarf character could get yanked right into the big bad evil guy's lair if he finds out what your name is and asks for your specifically?
Likewise, the immunity to several spells based on type cuts both ways. You're immune to a number of beneficial spells such as Enlarge Person and Reduce Person, which means you're essentially stuck being medium barring exceptionally powerful spells such as Giant Form I or II. If you're a melee character, this is a huge nerf in your effectiveness, as being unable to manipulate your reach and such is a huge disadvantage compared to the core races.
Finally, I think that overall the Dwarf is the superior racial choice over Aasimar or Tieflings, because while Aasimar and Tieflings are immune to a select subset of spells (really the ones that say "Target: X Humanoid") that includes several beneficial spells to, and it's not difficult - even at early levels - for characters to attain protections against charms and compulsions, and [i]resist energy[i] is also available early and provides a 10 to 30 point resistance to the energy type of your choice.
Honestly, beyond alchemical spam, the majority of low CR creatures don't usually do much blasting. They tend to be more direct and mundane or have supernatural abilities that cause status ailments instead of elemental damage. Dwarfs get a +2 (+10%) vs Poisons and Spells and Spell-like Abilities (and Psionics if you use Psionics since 3.5/PF psionics uses transparency).
I run an online game which has an inordinately large number of playable races, and yet the core races are still chosen over Aasimar and Tieflings all the time. I'm pretty sure our most common PC race is Human, followed by changelings/doppelgangers, with a smattering of anything else.
It has been my experience that in both 3E and PF that even without Planar Binding problems, Aasimar and Tieflings aren't OP.
There's only one Material Plane. The universe is big enough to hold pretty much every single campaign setting.I dunno, how do you have Earth-616, Earth-2, Earth-DCNU, Freedom City Earth, and Gamma World (never mind the variants from different editions) all orbiting Sol in the same universe? It must be very crowded, and we just haven't noticed yet. ;)
It might be your point but that is more a function of parallel material planes.
I've built any number of characters over the years, both 3.X and Pathfinder, and no matter what the racial bonuses Aasimars or any other race offer I keep coming back to humans.
That bonus skill point and bonus feat are just to good to pass up.