In addition to what they normally get:
•+2 to One Ability Score: Human characters get a +2 bonus to one ability score of their choice at creation to represent their varied nature.
•Medium: Humans are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
•Normal Speed: Humans have a base speed of 30 feet.
•Bonus Feat: Humans select one extra feat at 1st level.
•Skilled: Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.
•Languages: Humans begin play speaking Common. Humans with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
Maybe add the following:
Knack: Humans are varied, and have lots of different specialties and talents. Humans gain a +2 racial bonus to a single skill selected at 1st level. Once this skill is selected, it can never be changed.
Extra Trait: Humans gain 1 additional trait at 1st level, in addition to the 2 normally selected at 1st level.
Prestigious Destiny: Humans can select a single prestige class as a favored class, in addition to a base class as a favored class. The human can select the favored prestige class upon taking her first level in the selected prestige class; this does not need to be the first prestige class the character enters.
Basically to give them a tiny bump to power, and especially to give them some kind of racial features that can be traded out for various alternate racial features. As it stands, the only thing they have that can be realistically (not really important in fantasy!!! Haha!!) be traded out for something else is the bonus feat or the bonus skill point. What if there is some neat human variant someone gets an idea for, isn't quite worth losing the iconic human stuff? This gives the designers some wiggle room.
It's fairly minor, but I grant all humans a second free language besides Common. I play in Golarion, so for some humans it's predetermined (Varisians get Varisian, Keleshites get Kelish, Etc.) but Chelaxians and Taldans can select any one other language listed for their region.
I thought that was a rule in the Inner Sea Campaine Guide?
What I did to encourage people to play them is gave them a stat point at every even level instead of every 4.
Wait you are having trouble getting your players to play humans? They are mechanically the strongest race in the game except in very specific cases.
No thanks. There are already too many human characters around. They don't need any more power.
Wait, you feel that humans aren't strong enough as a player race? Seriously?
I can see where you're coming from for trading out racial features- I've yet to see anything worth giving up a feat for. But adding to the race is a terrible idea. They are, as Kolokotroni mentioned, the strongest race mechanically.
If you've got any eye towards balance, beefing them up is an awful idea. They only have a few things to trade away (skill points and a feat), so you'd be much better off expanding the racial abilities. Take away the feat or the skill points and give them several different abilities of roughly the same power.
Otherwise, forget about it. They already have the most flexibility in terms of favored class bonuses, and I've never seen a build that couldn't benefit significantly from an additional feat or more skill points. Humans are generic, but they're the only race you can tailor to a specific purpose- all the others have abilities that are all over the place.
Humans offer the greatest versatility in a race. They are leaps and bounds better than either of the half-races they spawn, and the only race that I personally would even consider over a human for optimizing is a dwarf, and that's only because of the Con, darkvision, and +2 vs Spells/Poison/SLAs.
I'm in Koloktroni's corner as well. I've never heard anyone say that humans need a boost. If anything, I think elves and orcs need it most, and halflings should be able to swap something out for 30ft movement speed.
sorry i understand but, my gaming group all refuse to play humans, as they say "they are the weakest race"
sorry i understand but, my gaming group all refuse to play humans, as they say "they are the weakest race"
It's funny they think that, as it's really not true.
I generally avoid playing humans if only to avoid the amazingly average group of nothin but humans our local groups might otherwise end up as.
humans don't have darkvision or even low light vision. at low levels this is an ENORMOUS liability. at least in my experience. oh you get attacked at night? might as well just sit there and take your lumps.
humans don't have darkvision or even low light vision. at low levels this is an ENORMOUS liability. at least in my experience. oh you get attacked at night? might as well just sit there and take your lumps.
A torch costs 1 cp
I built a +2 bonus to a single skill of their choice into the Skilled racial feature of the human, just as you had done with Knack.
I'll grant you humans are versatile, and versatility is one of my favorite things. But they're kind of bland. They only have 2 racial features, and some races can even sort of do the same thing: elves get a bonus to Int, which ALSO grants an extra skill point per level, plus a +1 on all Int-based skill checks plus a +1 on Int-based Save DCs and extra spell slots. I know, humans can also get a +2 to Int, but elves also get some free weapon proficiencies, free spell penetration feat--that stacks with the actual spell penetration and greater spell penetration feats, plus low light vision, bonuses on some saves, immunity to some attack forms, etc. etc.
Most of the other races trade a bit of versatility to excel in one or more roles. Dwarves make excellent fighters, cleric, druids, barbarians, rangers, etc. etc. Halflings are good at being rogues, archer paladins, bards, sorcerers, oracles, etc.
Humans are competent at many roles. But they do lack a lot of racial abilities. A bonus feat is cool, but after 3rd or 5th level, it makes very little difference. The bonus skill point can be given to any race with a +2 Int bonus, or that selects an extra skill point as a favored class bonus.
I just think humans lack a bit of oomph.
humans don't have darkvision or even low light vision. at low levels this is an ENORMOUS liability. at least in my experience. oh you get attacked at night? might as well just sit there and take your lumps.Umm... no casters in your party with a sorry light cantrip? or someone packing a lousy sunrod? Having played a variety of races I can tell you that Humans measure up... and they have no weak spots.
Sometimes there are no casters, or they prepared different cantrips, like message, detect magic, create water, stablize, etc. Sometimes the PCs are SEVERELY resource depleted. Sometimes, the guy holding the torch becomes the beacon all the archers target.
But a race with darkvision ALWAYS has darkvision (unless blinded--in which case, a light spell or lantern isn't going to help anyways). Furthermore, it takes an action to light a source of illumination, and darkvision, etc., take no actions to use. The human cleric that is casting light to see what is attacking them is going to act 1 round later than the half-orc cleric that can see in the dark and blast them with a channel energy instead. And that round can make all the difference between not getting hurt and getting 12 attacks on you by 4 ghouls flanking you like crazy.
humans don't have darkvision or even low light vision. at low levels this is an ENORMOUS liability. at least in my experience. oh you get attacked at night? might as well just sit there and take your lumps.Umm... no casters in your party with a sorry light cantrip? or someone packing a lousy sunrod? Having played a variety of races I can tell you that Humans measure up... and they have no weak spots.
Not arguing against humans being a great race mechanically, but if you need to cast a spell like Light, it's basically loss of an action during the first round of combat... And that's losing a lot. Especially since light is low-radius compared to darkvision (though if you've got low-light, it's probably enough).
I'll grant you humans are versatile, and versatility is one of my favorite things. But they're kind of bland. They only have 2 racial features, and some races can even sort of do the same thing: elves get a bonus to Int, which ALSO grants an extra skill point per level, plus a +1 on all Int-based skill checks plus a +1 on Int-based Save DCs and extra spell slots. I know, humans can also get a +2 to Int, but elves also get some free weapon proficiencies, free spell penetration feat--that stacks with the actual spell penetration and greater spell penetration feats, plus low light vision, bonuses on some saves, immunity to some attack forms, etc. etc.
Most of the other races trade a bit of versatility to excel in one or more roles. Dwarves make excellent fighters, cleric, druids, barbarians, rangers, etc. etc. Halflings are good at being rogues, archer paladins, bards, sorcerers, oracles, etc.
Humans are competent at many roles. But they do lack a lot of racial abilities. A bonus feat is cool, but after 3rd or 5th level, it makes very little difference. The bonus skill point can be given to any race with a +2 Int bonus, or that selects an extra skill point as a favored class bonus.
I just think humans lack a bit of oomph.
If the free feat makes 'very little difference' after 3rd or 5th level, how are ANY of the racial abilities granted to any of the races going to matter after that? None of them are overtly superior to a feat.
Both of which give away your position
Just because there is a situation (even a common one) where humans are at a disadvantage compared to some of the other races, doesnt mean they are under powered. That just means they arent wildly overpowered. For a much wider variaty of classes/concepts humans are better, and as such in a wide variety of circumstances they are better. I will grant that they have trouble in night ambushes, but again, that is just one set of circumstances.
sorry i understand but, my gaming group all refuse to play humans, as they say "they are the weakest race"
Interesting. I wonder if I can get the other guys in my group to play along - if we all tell the GM that we think humans are too weak and keep a straight face, he might boost them, too! ;-P
Why would you be waiting for combat to cast it? It's a cantrip and so unlimited use that lasts for minutes. The spell should be up all the time when it's needed.
Not arguing against humans being a great race mechanically, but if you need to cast a spell like Light, it's basically loss of an action during the first round of combat... And that's losing a lot. Especially since light is low-radius compared to darkvision (though if you've got low-light, it's probably enough).
Pretty hard to sneak then. Being a glowing lightbulb in the middle of a dark forest isn't the best way to avoid trouble really. And pretty hard to sleep if you have to recast every minute.
When you have the time to prepare, a torch is almost always better than a light cantrip, if nothing else because it doesn't waste a slot. I thought this was for the "nightly ambush".
Regardless, being able to go without light is a pretty darn big thing whenever it's dark.
Just because there is a situation (even a common one) where humans are at a disadvantage compared to some of the other races, doesnt mean they are under powered. That just means they arent wildly overpowered. For a much wider variaty of classes/concepts humans are better, and as such in a wide variety of circumstances they are better. I will grant that they have trouble in night ambushes, but again, that is just one set of circumstances.
Oh, I fully agree. I think the races are quite nicely balanced (though I could see the halfling getting a small boost). I don't think humans are the be-all end-all, that's all.
Why do you want to encourage people to play humans? Do you have reason to think it would make your games better? If you are the players are all having fun and things are working let them thinking humans are weak and play something else. Sooner or later they'll notice that if anything it's a 180 the other direction and the numbers of non-human PCs you have will drop like a rock.
Sometimes, the guy holding the torch becomes the beacon all the archers target.
THIS!
Just to be clear, humans are now only with the advent of Pathfinder balanced with the other races. I just want to encourage people to play one since a)no one does b)the population of my world is ostensibly about 85% human and more than a little prejudiced.
My basic opinion: Remove race abilities. Make some race traits (like Darkvision) feats that you have to choose at lvl 1. Every char is mechanically a human. Possibly add paragon classes that customize characters
For one simple reason: One should not have to think about what race would be the best for his build, that's the wrong direction and direct PG. Elves are dextrous and intelligent, yeah, but that's for population, not for individuals, specialised elves and specialised humans should be about the same
sorry i understand but, my gaming group all refuse to play humans, as they say "they are the weakest race"
PG n00bs? There are some nice race abilities, Darkvision or Low Light Vision are neat if you sneak in dark caves, some weapon profiencies are good if you play a class without martial (like a bard who profits from longbow, longsword or falchion profs), also requirements can be important (I'd vote to abolish the elf/halfelf req of arcane archer) but a feat is still a feat...
in some cases, the ability boni hit the spot, like an elven magus or a halfling ray specialist sorcerer or a PF beta version halforc druidzilla (beta halforcs get +2 str +2 wis) but in general the +2 arbitrary bonus of the humans is just perfect (especially if you can't neglect the lost ability, like the elfs -2 con which hurts)humans don't have darkvision or even low light vision. at low levels this is an ENORMOUS liability. at least in my experience. oh you get attacked at night? might as well just sit there and take your lumps.
torches? lanterns? campfire? light spells? permanent flame? sunrods? glowing magic weapons? darkvision goggles? darkvision spell + permanency?
elves get a bonus to Int, which ALSO grants an extra skill point per level, plus a +1 on all Int-based skill checks plus a +1 on Int-based Save DCs and extra spell slots. I know, humans can also get a +2 to Int, but elves also get some free weapon proficiencies, free spell penetration feat--that stacks with the actual spell penetration and greater spell penetration feats, plus low light vision, bonuses on some saves, immunity to some attack forms, etc. etc.
Let's analyze that. We'll consider 6 builds: melee, archer, sneak, wizard, gish and half-melee/archer
Melee: +2 to int means you can build a combat maneuver char since the combat expertise int 13 is easy to achieve. If you want to build such a char, yeah, elf is neat, especially in a low point buy. For regular damagedealers, it sucks - the human uses his +2 for strength while your choices are being at -1 hit and damage or going finesse and being MAD. Also, the -2 con is not the best choice for melee. If a genie gives you the choice between a feat, dark/low light vision and +2 to an attribute, even fighters will choose the featArcher: Yeah, quite viable. Archer bards are iconic, so why not.
Still, the -2 con does not balance out the +2 int and archers will gladly take feats (they're not feat starved but more feats mean stuff like shooting on the run or mounted archery). Vision at night rules, so elven archers are a good choice. But not that Uber.
Sneak: Yeah, vision rules for sneaks. You won't build a sneak savant, so you have to consider your other rules.
Wizard: Con is probably better than Dex, except for Rays. Weapon profiencies can be neglected. The Int bonus can be neglected since the human will choose +2 int
Gish: An elven magus is nice, yeah. At least if it's a Dervish Dance build, which is not that strong as some people seem to think (burning feats and neglecting your armor casting abilities)
Half-Melee/Archer: By this I mean classes that can use weapons but are not based on it - like bards. This is where the weapon profiencies shine. Nice if you want to do combat maneuvers (int!) but on the other hands, such chars are feat starved...
Most of the other races trade a bit of versatility to excel in one or more roles. Dwarves make excellent fighters, cleric, druids, barbarians, rangers, etc. etc. Halflings are good at being rogues, archer paladins, bards, sorcerers, oracles, etc.
But are they stronger as humans? Dwarves get no strength bonus, which sucks for melees. Also they are slow. Don't misunderstand me, they are good choices but I would not consider them better than humans for these classes
Halflings are the best sneaks and being small is perfect for sorcerers and these classes don't need much feats, yeah, better than humans. However, some PGs want BIIIIG characters for their self-esteem ^^
Pretty hard to sneak then. Being a glowing lightbulb in the middle of a dark forest isn't the best way to avoid trouble really.
Them's the breaks.
And pretty hard to sleep if you have to recast every minute.
A first-level character could make it last 10 minutes. By 6th level, it already lasts an hour.
When you have the time to prepare, a torch is almost always better than a light cantrip, if nothing else because it doesn't waste a slot.
It doesn't? You have floating torches? Torches use up a "hand" slot. Those are a lot less numerous than cantrip slots.
I thought this was for the "nightly ambush".
So when you wake up with a bunch of orcs breathing down your face, you want to get a torch, fumble with the flint and steel, and all that? I'd say that takes a bit longer than the couple of seconds it takes to say "fiat lux" or whatever the verbal components for the light cantrip is.
Regardless, being able to go without light is a pretty darn big thing whenever it's dark.
Nobody will deny that. Darkvision is quite useful. Low-light vision is quite useful, too, as long as you're outside.
However, lack of darkvision does not cripple a race.
Oh, I fully agree. I think the races are quite nicely balanced (though I could see the halfling getting a small boost).
Small boost. I see what you did there! :P
Anyway, think the halfies are fine: They get a bonus to what is arguably the most important ability score (dex), they get a bonus to all saving throws and to a couple of the most important skills. Being small means they're not a very good choice for mêlée characters, but there's lots of other kinds of characters one can play.
Humans are fine mechanically. I prefer their racials to any other race except for certain exceptions.
If players do not want to be humans, then that is the player's choice. Humans in Golarians are extremely varied, much more so than any other race. We have Chelixians and Varisians. It's up to the individual player to make the character (and that word is important) interesting. You do not really need a dwarf's hatred, an elf's immunities, or a halfling's fearlessness to make a compelling human character.
My basic opinion: Remove race abilities. Make some race traits (like Darkvision) feats that you have to choose at lvl 1. Every char is mechanically a human. Possibly add paragon classes that customize characters
For one simple reason: One should not have to think about what race would be the best for his build, that's the wrong direction and direct PG.
Yeah, of course! You're concerned about powergaming so you want to enable people to cherry-pick abilities. That computes!
:P
My basic opinion: Remove race abilities. Make some race traits (like Darkvision) feats that you have to choose at lvl 1. Every char is mechanically a human. Possibly add paragon classes that customize characters
For one simple reason: One should not have to think about what race would be the best for his build, that's the wrong direction and direct PG.Yeah, of course! You're concerned about powergaming so you want to enable people to cherry-pick abilities. That computes!
:P
PGs will PG anyhow, point is that with such a rule, they don't have to defluff in order to PG.
I would default to give them an additional trait, you can further restrict it to a regional trait, seems fair enough, it seems to me humans lost a little with the favored classes being less restricted like are now.
A trait keeps humans varied so it seems an excellent option for humans in particular.
Sorry but Ksorkrax please do not call my party PG nOOb's and KaeYoss if you want to go crying to your GM then plase do.
We have been playing as a group for 15 YEARS and the human thing is a group thing, we have not House rules humans, yes they get their skill piont and extra feat at 1st, but my group just think that the half elf tops the human.
ITS A THING CALLED PERSONNEL CHOICE
15 years means nothing. People have played longer, and still don't know the game well. I just hate to see the 10, 20, 30 years thing thrown out there like it is supposed to mean something.
Not all choices can be equal. If they are then you are not really making a choice, that is why the races are different, so yeah some will have advantages in certain situations.
What does your comment about Kaeyoss have to do with what he said? I didn't see him whining/crying about anything?
You are allowed to have a preference, but you stated it as your groups opinion(something people believe to be true), that humans are weak. The two are not synonymous.
Example:I can have the opinion that humans are the best/worst choice, but still prefer something else.
I happen to agree that humans need a little help. In my campaigns I give them a specific bonus feat in addition to their normal racial qualities:
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.
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Destiny's Child (General)
The winds of change seem to be in your favor.
Benefit: Once per day you can apply a luck bonus equal to any one task resolution roll (ability check, attack roll, saving throw and skill checks) equal to one-fifth your character level +4.
The other races have low-light and and darkvision, but that advantage can be negated at higher levels. Those situational though. I often have to force myself not to play a human, just for the extra feat and skill point.
Sorry but Ksorkrax please do not call my party PG nOOb's and KaeYoss if you want to go crying to your GM then plase do.
We have been playing as a group for 15 YEARS and the human thing is a group thing, we have not House rules humans, yes they get their skill piont and extra feat at 1st, but my group just think that the half elf tops the human.
ITS A THING CALLED PERSONNEL CHOICE
It's not really personal choice if it is decided that that choice highlights a mechanical flaw in the game and houserules are needed.
Seriously though, mechanically Humans are probably the most powerful race in the game. There are too many fixes for no darkvision for me to list them all here, but none of those fixes are as valuable as a feat.
"We have been playing...for 15 YEARS" yawn. I was playing for 15 years 15 years ago.